Jerichoforce said "I researched the claims and truth of both Christ and the bible from an historical and scientific perspective and found the evidence supporting the claims to be overwhelmingly supported."

That is an extremely broad sweeping claim to make. Perhaps you'd care to share some of your more significant findings here in this thread.

JF, perhaps people thought that the earth was flat, because
of the bible reference to the 4 corners of the earth.

Now you might not have been brainwashed as a kiddy, but millions
are. They tried to scare me as an innocent 5 year old,with talk
of burning in hell forever etc. Fact is that 95% of religious
people keep the faith that was brainwashed into them as kids.
So religion is very much about geography and where you grew up.
Had your family lived in Mecca for instance, there is a 95%
chance that you would be a muslim today.

I am certainly not free to impose by beliefs on you. You are
free to live according to your morals, your beliefs. You just
can't enforce them on the rest of us.

Humanism in my case is about people and suffering, not about the
rights of cells. Your little line in the sand is simply at a
different point to mine.

As to the bible, claims of its innerancy have been shot to
pieces long ago by people like Farrel Till, an ex preacher who
knows the bible far better then most of us.

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/

But even I can figure out that when the story of Noah and the
flood was dreamed up, they forgot all about the freshwater fish.
Did Noah have little aquariums on board? :)

Just what we need - another self-righteous godbotherer. It's a very familiar script, isn't it?

JF will undoubtedly learn that his/her expressed views are tolerated at On Line Opinion, but open for critique and perhaps ridicule. I think it's fine if s/he wants to propose a new definition of religion and argue on the basis of it, but s/he can't expect anybody else to accept a novel definiton of 'religion' that incorporates not having a religion as consitituting a religion.

Despite the fact that a few Christian fundies babble on about 'secular humanism' being a 'religion', I don't think anybody much takes them seriously. In fact, it's been specifically refuted many times here, as JF will discover if s/he peruses the archives.

I don't think "taking exception" to unspecified comments that don't conform to your peculiar worldview will get JF very far at OLO, but s/he's welcome here anyway.

Now, about that filter...

Dear JF,

I can only speak from my perspective (by the way I'm also an alumni of the UNSW - for my undergraduate degree). However, today faith has passed from the passive and complete acceptance of a body of truths to the honest search for total commitment.

The world has become meaning-centered, and the individual measures the traditional truths in terms of personal value. She/he refuses to accept irrelevant sermons, a sterile liturgy, a passe and speculative theology which explores publicly dry and distant formulas, a law which does not explain its own origins.

She/he demands a pastor/priest who reaches him/her in honest dialogue.
She/he will not be bullied by an authoritarian demand for the observance of parish boundaries, nor by moralizing which ignores the true and complex context of modern life.

The layman/woman has witnessed a more humane eucharistic fast, a more open view of mixed marriages, a more understanding discussion of the
birth-control (and abortion) problem and of the dilemma (in my case) of Catholic education.

She/he has recognized the human face of the Church which has been forced to change its expression or die. This has given her/him the courage to hope and push for greater changes still.

Rob... should the practice of 'non faith' and its consequences be 'imposed' on those of faith ? :) seems like the other side of the same coin to me.

I am mystified as to why you don't see this.

For me.. a faith based life and world view is 'normality' and a secular approach is not. Its just as easy for 2 secular based idea systems to be in conflict as it is for faith based views.

In fact.. it is the nature of things, life itself.. for conflict between viewpoints to exist. There will always be one which prevails, and those on the 'non prevailing' side will more than likely whine about how the other is 'imposed' on them.

For example.. lets look closely at the 'deal' done by the Greens with Labor.. and see if there are any little morsels of moral compromise which will now be 'imposed' on the community, yet only maybe 5% of the community voted for the Greens.

Is it possible that with a Labor Victory, aided by the Green preferences, we will see changed to the 'same sex' related issues ?
-Gay adoption
-No more legal discimination for same sex 'couples'
-Same sex 'marriage' ?

If such were the case, I would feel intensly 'imposed' on, simply because the nature of our society, would tend to make those who share my own views, 'more marginalized'.... Now.. you might consider that a good thing.... I'm sure CJ would break out of his little pin sticking dolly room and openly rejoice with leaps and bounds at such an eventuality.

Consider this. My child goes to school, I've taught him that marriage should only ever be between a male and a female. He finds kids who have '2 daddies' and they pick on him.... for having 'bigoted' views, he comes home... in tears. Yep....'imposed' is the only word.

There can only be 'imposition'...and its either this way...or that.

While we say we would , some of us ,like freedom from religion in Australia we will not get it.
Worth noting Islam calls for my death for this but there is no God.
Never was never will be.
Christians once would have burnt me alive for that, many would still like to now.
For now Christianity rules us in far too many ways even our sex yes some want to control that , in a way always have, yet there is no God.
Some time in the future BOAZY tells us ,in truth many do Islam may have the numbers to control us, why do we put up with it rule in the name of any God?
Is there room to debate why should our governments let religion control us?
Angela you ask questions we do not wish to answer I understand the impact of those cartoons not long ago and know my Post could be inflammatory for some, could get me killed.
But in truth PC and fear shreds true debate on followers of non existent Gods.