R0bert:

It would seem that you and I are a couple of sane voices among the religious others.

Religion is one of the worst traits of humankind (other than our ability to kill each other in an increasingly efficient rate). In fact religion feeds this propensity in an even more alarming manner.

I wonder how many people throughout history would have lived a longer life if they hadn't died in the name of religion?

Iluvatar

I wonder how many more babies would of saved their lives if it was not for the irreligious. I wonder how many lives would of been saved if it wasn't for communism (who denied the existent of God). I wonder what would of happened to our indigeneous people had the Japanese took over in the last world war. The irreligious easily win out in the killing stakes.

Runner:

Dunno mate!

At least I don't waste time thinking about things that don't exist (i.e. God / Allah / Krishna etc.) or in living with the false promises of "prophets" (e.g. Jesus / Mohammed / Bhudda ) who want to variously convert or save me / kill me / or reincarnate me because of what THEY believe!

Whoa...calm down guys! Take it easy. Just remember what Mr Thwackum,
a character in Henry Fielding's novel, 'Tom Jones,' declares,
"When I mention religion, I mean the Christian religion; and not only the Christian religion, but the Protestant religion' and not onlt the Protestant religion, but the Church of England."

Most people are like Mr Thwackum" when they mention religion, they have their own in mind.

Whatever our religious beliefs may be, we usually learn them from other people through socialization into a particular faith (or through resolcialization, if we convert from one faith to another). The religious convictions that anyone holds are thus influenced by the historical and social context in which that person happens to live.

Someone born in ancient Rome would probably have believed that Jupiter is father of the gods; at any rate, he or she would certainly not have been a Southern Baptist or a Hindu. Similarly, if your parents are Catholic, you are probably Catholic; if they are Mormon, you too are probably a Mormon.

We are not the passive prisoners of our upbringing, of course, but even people who decide to convert from one religion to another must almost inevitably select their new faith from the unique range of options that their particular culture happens to offer at a particular point in its history, even if it means you chose not to believe or follow any religion.

This cultural variety means that there are a large number of religions, many of whose members are convinced that theirs is the one true faith and that all others are misguided, superstitious, even wicked...

So Lighten up people - your beliefs are yours - don't inflict them on others - PLEEEAAAAAAAASE!

Iluvatar, I'm not here to pick on religious beliefs. Religion has played a role in human history and individual lives that at times has brought great good and at other times great harm. For some it provides a useful framework to justify values, a means of putting aside concerns about their own mortality and a tool to promote values beyond self interest. If people choose to believe in a spiritual world that I see no evidence for then fine.

I draw the line when they seek to impose their own beliefs on others, when they seek to restrict others ability to live happy and meaningfull lives. Foxy summed up part of the argument very well this afternoon.

R0bert

Yabbbbbbby.. to quote Foxy -WHOA...nottt so fast there young pella...

You said:

>>Now lets look at what the bible says about marriage etc:
Its a real free for all! I can take on a number of wives,
sleep with the maid if the wife won't fall pregnant, etc.
etc.<<

Ok.. seconds out.. gloves on :) *DING*.. round 1.

BD leads with a left jab.. "can you show me a commandment which specifically allows multiple wives" ?

Follows up with a right cross " I can show you one which says a king must NOT have many wives" (Deut 17:7)

Ok.. that should shake you up a bit.. now I step back and await your counter punch :)

While I'm waiting, I'll give you my impression of the link you provided. errr.. ur not serious right ? That was hopeless. Like someone grabbing a hand full of sand and chucking it in the fact of their opponent...... no design, no shape.. no science.. just a hand full of sand. No points for that sight mate :