CJ... most of what you said there is ok...

but your final bit 'nothing more, nothing less' fails to take into consideration the pressures from various groups to make it much more.. (no, not me :) in fact to turn it into a political issue, a legal playground, and make it a precedent which would endanger the country.

I think it was Robert Mann this morning on ABC who was whining that these Indonesian fishermen did not have 'access to independant legal advice' ..to which I ask 'Why should they' ? they openly declared from their own lips that they were not refugees in the sense of the UN convention...so what's left to say ?

The fact that there are social parasites like Robert Mann infesting our universities and infecting the still idealistic students with mental virusus as this, is why I raise concerns here in OLO.

Thats also why it is more than 'nothing more'....

The obvious extention of Manns approach is that we could get 20million economic refugees from Indonesia alone.. more in fact..
but of course, the country would explode into chaos first, but it seems his ideology is more important than social harmony.

cheers.

Dear K Jim

the people can change..of course.. on the day they renounce Islam and denounce Mohammad.

To see just how horrific intercommunal strife can be..and what these people did, or were a part of, please see this.

Its graphic!

I'm deliberately showing you the 'Muslim' version as well as pointing you to an independant UN report which gives a more balanced picture.

1/ Muslim propoganda version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bo-ZRb1Edg

(In spite of this, the ONLY people to have been executed were 3 'Christians', they took part in a horrific massacre in 2000, but the conflict began in 1998.. all over a stupid bus fair evasion problem by a Muslim youth who embellished the story into 'Those Christians beat me up') The clip says nothing about what happend to the Christians from 1998 to 2000. But other reports DO.

http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/003008.html

<<They (the 3 executed men) entered the area where violence was raging to evacuate children from a church-led school in the village of Moengko, Poso City. A Muslim mob came to the church on May 23, 2000 and burned the church down. The children and the three men escaped before the building was razed.>> This was days before the attack on the Muslims.

2/ UN report http://www.hrw.org/press/2002/12/indo1204.htm

The point of offering this, is to show you exactly HOW such events are 'spun' by the Muslims in order to get sympathy, and try to influence political outcomes.

What the clip does NOT show.. is:

1/ How the conflict started.
2/ How many Christians were massacred, and the 10s of 1000s made homeless
3/ The influx of 'Jihadis' from other parts of Indonesia (estimated around 4000) who then did such indescribable things to so many Christians.
4/ The history of the communal strife, which goes back many decades to issues of power sharing.. growth of power of the Muslims, and the deliberate undermining of a clear Christian majority, access to government contracts etc....

all reasons why encouraging 'cultural difference' is total madness for Australia, because THIS....is the end result.

cheers mate.

Why do bad things happen between communities?

Here is a good reason.

http://www.westernresistance.com/blog/archives/003008.html

<<And the real mastermind of the sectarian violence which engulfed Sulawesi and the Moluccas got off scot-free. The violence in Poso was part of a larger war, initiated by the Islamist Umar Jaffar Thalib and his army of Muslims, the Lashkar Jihad. This group was apparently set up with the approval of the then government in 1999. The war they created, the Moluccan War, cost the lives of 9,000 people between 1999 and 2002.

Thalib himself personally ordered the massacre at Soya village, a Christian enclave near Ambon city, which took place Sunday April 28, 2002. At least 21 people died. Small children and women were hacked at with machetes and decapitated, and men beaten to death with staves, beheaded, and burned alive in their homes. Jaffar Umar Thalib was put on trial in 2003, charged with "sowing hate". He was acquitted.>>

Can you imagine how you would feel if your family and relatives have been slaughtered by this animal..and you read "He was acquitted" ?

My last 3 posts all relate to the group from which the 'Indonesian fishermen' come (directly or indirectly). Islamists.

Boaz, I've probably mentioned before that using such anti-Islamic sites as westernresistance.com hardly constitutes presenting a fair and balanced argument.

But visiting the site did raise an interesting issue on which I'd appreciate your opinion.

They feature a story headlined "When Islam And Stuffed Fluffy Toys Collide", retelling the tale of UK teacher Gillian Gibbons at the Sudaneses school, and the teddy bear named Mohammed.

The tale is simple enough. A British schoolteacher is sufficiently unaware of her surroundings to allow her class to give a soft toy the same name as the prophet that is the major religious figure in that country.

Now, the question for you Boaz, is on which side of this discussion do you sit?

Was it the obligation of the foreigner to conform to the norms of the locals, as you keep telling us should happen in Australia.

Or was it the obligation of the country hosting her to overlook her blasphemy against their religion?

Just interested.

Hi Pericles

I think better put, it was not a malicious act on her part.. she did apologise... so my position is that she should have been better informed about sensitivities prior to going.

That's why I studied anthropology b4 going out. Still...it took me 7 yrs before I learned that you don't ask a local (of a particular tribe) his name directly. (it goes back to the headhunting/slave taking days)... when I did ask a helpful local his name (he picked me up as I was walking between villages) he almost choked...but he sure as heck didn't take offense.. he smilingly told me his name after a few seconds, and left it to me to work out why he reacted thus.

I absolutely condemn the Sudanese Muslims for wanting to execute her.. because the issue is always 'intent' or lack thereof.
This was just a cheap excuse to 'get a westerner'..and should be treated as such.

It does show though.. the true nature of Islam when it is not restrained by Western generosity and patience.