Boazy: "...a group which seeks to undermine and invade and infect our whole education system in a planned deliberate and to me, immoral way"

Which group is that, Boazy? If it's homosexuals you're talking about, your raving homophobia is showing again.

What is it with you Christian Taliban and gays? Boazy openly vilifies homosexuals as often as possible, while cleverer types like mjpb utilise them in exercises of convoluted sophistry as above.

Hopefully, once Rudd's elected and the Greens hold the balance of power, these sanctimonious godbotherers will scuttle back to wherever they used to lurk until the neo-moralism of the past decade under Howard.

Boaz, please tell, why do you think it is that some people struggle with their sexual orientation? If as a society we simply accepted that homosexual orientation was part of the human condition, there would be no need for any struggle. And it's clear that ranting on about how evil or abnormal homosexuality is has had absolutely no affect on the number of people who are homosexual, so even if it makes you personally uncomfortable, what possible benefit is there in trying to persuade others that it's wrong? If you *genuinely* believe that homosexuality is an abnormal condition that needs curing, then go into medical or pyschological research to see if you contribute towards finding such as cure. (Interestingly enough, there has some interesting work done in attempting to find reasons and cures for homophobia: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/09/AR2005120901938.html?nav=rss_health)

BTW, do you object to heterosexuals that are voluntarily childless?

Wizo...

On the homosexual issue. The major problem is the 'behavior' rather than the alleged orientation.

I have no problem declaring it 'evil' on the basis of scripture, but also on the basis of psychology. I know for a fact that we all have desires which might be described as 'worrisome' on a social level. How many people actually follow through on such desires?

The question is.. what do we DO with inclinations, desires, lusts.. which are clearly not in the best interests of the community ?

One of my strongggg desires during my Air Force days, was to get petrol for nothing.. and I did so by milking the RAAF combi wagon during trips to a remote spot on the base. I found that quite a thrill... a rush you might say.. FREEEEEE petrol... after that, I came to Christ, and when discharged I made a guestimate payment of how much I'd taken, and received a letter of astonished gratitude from the powers to be.

There are pedophiles who absolutely, without the slightest reservation, will claim "I was born this way, I don't have a choice in the matter".. sound familiar ?

In short, open-ness to one form of deviant behavior, opens the gate to all forms 'within the law', but consider this. The LAW once made homosexual behavior 'illegal'... is it so now ? What happened to change it ? Why can the same tactics and reasoning not be used to advance the cause of NAMBLA and heterosexual adult child sexual relationships? I've stated many times that Mohammad 'married' a child of 9 yrs age.. when he was 53. Try to find a Muslim who will condemn such behavior.. not a chance mate.

So... there are many sides to those issues.

CJ,

Thank you for the compliment but when you opined "...utilise them in exercises of convoluted sophistry as above" I disagree considering it simply using clear analogies to highlight your problem in the hope that I can break through. I believe that outside of your Christian prejudice you tend to be quite civil to all and would love to see you become consistent.

Boazy's Christian camp verses education camp (camp education?)made me wonder why you are so threatened by Christians anyway. What is a few camps ridiculed in the media? Are you expecting God to leap down and take that side?

Wizofaus,

May I please interject? "..what possible benefit is there in trying to persuade others that it's wrong?"

Boazy is a fairly enthusiastic (and possibly fundamentalist) Christian. Thus Boazy's take is not just the "ick" or a "that's abnormal" reaction of some atheists. Instead his opinion is tied to his understanding of God's wishes. To Boazy (and others sharing the belief system) being a homosexual and thinking it is just a normal attribute is analogous to walking toward the edge of a pit. He is displaying his concern by yelling a warning. Irrespective of how the warning may be received he feels obliged to say it. At the least he would consider that anyone who walks straight into the 'pit' would be deprived of an infinitely fantastic loving experience and may also worry that they may be harmed. You have heard the Christian saying "love thy neighbour". If you loved someone would you want them fall in a pit? Neither does Boazy. Does that make sense to you? I'm not trying to be obtuse to your argument just trying to help you understand where the man is coming from because your discussion didn't seem to account for it.

"BTW, do you object to heterosexuals that are voluntarily childless?"

Very interesting question. I'm keen to eavesdrop and hear your ideas on that.

BOAZ, our "worrisome" desires such as to steal, cheat etc., are clearly ethically wrong because they negatively impact other people, and we wouldn't want others do the same to us.
Consensual sex between two adults of the same sex harms absolutely no-one, indeed quite the opposite - homosexuals who try to deliberately abstain from engaging their natural desires are the ones who struggle the most, and miss out on the benefits of a loving, committed relationship. Fortunately most eventually realise the futility of such an exercise, and accept their condition is nothing to be ashamed of.

Yes, I understand the whole "I'm worried about you, therefore I feel compelled to help you" argument, but if that was true, there would be a genuine attempt to examine whether simply repeating "homosexuality is evil" is at all helpful, given the preponderance of evidence that is actually quite harmful (30% of teen suicides are claimed to be due to homosexuals unable to reconcile religious teaching with sexual orientation).

BTW, is there anything that Christ said that could be interpreted as the slightest condemnation of homosexuality? This page claims there isn't: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_chri.htm

Boazy,

I am often surprised as to when you 'choose' to disappear from threads. It is usually when someone makes an apparently irresistable comment directed to you personally. My theory is that you post so much around the place that you just lose track of all the threads you are in.