Steel,

Do you know what a stereotype is? Because you certainly seem intent on tarnishing everyone who served in Vietnam with your wish washy nonsense.

People like you are THE reason nobody got involved in Cambodia. After the defeat in 1975 no western gov’t in the world could have become militarily involved in S.E.A and survived an election. The hippie generation was in full flower power mode. In fact it was hippie idiots who, mostly successfully, ensured that North Vietnamese troops had a sanctuary in Cambodia. They also nurtured the Khmer Rouge.

Your flippant comments about village burning etc show your lack of any concrete examples of American atrocities apart from My Lai. What do you know about Calley and the Americal division? That unit was among the worst in theatre in terms of training and morale, partly due to its unique composition.

Your obviously limited understanding of fighting guerrilla conflicts is no surprise. The chemical defoliants were used on US and Aust troops as well because at the time they were thought to be harmless to people.

You leftist simpletons prefer to ignore the fact that North Vietnam invaded the South. You prefer to ignore the many, many atrocities committed by the communists against their own people as well as against the Free world military forces.

You say “3 – 6 million dead caused by the Allies” This is utter propaganda. The North began the war by invading South Vietnam and they were responsible for the majority of civilian deaths. The North were offered many concessions at the negotiating table by successive Presidents but refused to end the war without total victory.

In regards to Hue 1968, (which it sounds like you don’t even know about) I am talking about the MASS murder of five thousand people over 4 weeks. These people weren’t collateral damage. The communists rounded up teachers, nurses, public officials, in fact anyone who was associated with the South gov’t and executed them This was how the communists operated across the country. Hows that for an example?

Here’s a declassified reference to 320 substantiated incidents alone, (including 7 massacres)not to mention the indiscriminate use of Agent Orange and napalm.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-vietnam6aug06,0,6350517.story

By the way, it was Rockefeller who gave Ho Chi Minh the leftover WW2 weapons to fight the French with (and later the USA) and the undersea Vietnamese oil reserves were conveniently sonically mapped on behalf of Standard oil at taxpayers expense by selectively dropping bombs into the sea while the nearby research ships took their soundings. This data sure came in handy when the international leases were sold after the war.

Domino theory alone? Rubbish.

Paull do not waste words on steel, you will not get understanding or balance there.
Taliban are not hero's, the victims are real. how can the extreme left sleep at night?
How can they defame every thing America does and nothing the murderous Taliban does.
The knife that cuts western heads of may be felt on other throats if we do not help the overwhelming number of Afghans who want freedom get it.
Another thread asks why Christians are in such numbers on the net, well the left are here in greater numbers because it is the only place we can not turn and walk away from such dribble.
It is however my view both have the right to say whatever they wish I have the right to be insulted by such leftist rubbish.

STG! Any death, in any way, is a pointless waist of the better of what is in side us. The only fault you have, is being young.
10\10 for your fortitude, way to go. We Australians are, and always will, be the leaders in thought and the peoples, people we will be!
We all have minds of our own. THATS FREEDOM! We are not locked into anybodies world but our own. Like I said before, Think for your self's if you can not come up with something new, SAY NOTHING. But if you have a mind of your own, give them hell.
The leaders of this world are playing us. Their using us, and as long its not pissing in your yard, its fine!

Just a thought.

Belly, your entire comment is a strawman that has a marginal basis in reality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

Paul L. > Do you know what a stereotype is?

?

> “The hippie generation was in full flower power mode. In fact it was hippie idiots who.....”

Here you explicitly typecast both a whole generation and “hippies”. What was that about stereotyping?

> “...mostly successfully, ensured that North Vietnamese troops had a sanctuary in Cambodia. They also nurtured the Khmer Rouge.”

WTF?

> Because you certainly seem intent on tarnishing everyone who served in Vietnam with your wish washy nonsense.

First you wrongly accused me about Locke. And now it's *everyone who served in Vietnam*? Wrong again. My original intention (as shown by my first post) was to counteract the flawed logic in your own comment when you attacked DEMOS, and at least one serious lie (eg. Taliban->9/11).

> "Your flippant comments about village burning etc show your lack of any concrete examples of American atrocities apart from My Lai"

“The Vietnam War Crimes You Never Heard Of” http://hnn.us/articles/1802.html

> "The chemical defoliants were used on US and Aust troops as well because at the time they were thought to be harmless to people."

Nevertheless it was a reckless, irresponsible and indiscriminate act that resulted in widespread destruction, pain and death for countless Vietnamese.

> “You leftist simpletons prefer to ignore the fact that North Vietnam invaded the South.”

You should learn about the conditions prior to the start of the war. The communists in the south would have been elected had not the election been rigged and the people defrauded. Secondly they suffered persecution and were executed by the government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ngo_Dinh_Diem#Rule
“...Tortures and killings of "communist suspects" were committed on a daily basis. The death toll was put at around 50,000...”

> “You say “3 – 6 million dead caused by the Allies” This is utter propaganda.”

I admit my error there, as Allied forces entered the conflict later. However, the numbers would still range in the millions.

Steel, make no mistake I value your thoughts less than any poster in this forum.
You may make what you want of that but I give zero value to your understanding of the world as it is.
Your slant on world events if we all followed would enslave us all.
To both over estimate the value of your own ideas and under value those of others is to defeat your own ideas.
I however find much to learn from and use in your posts, not once not a single word in defense of the victims of the Taliban.
No value given to the needless destruction of those age old statues, others ideas and feeling.
Again leftist rabbits seemingly hurling insults at one side and supporting such as the Taliban?
My thought are why? why could you ever think your remarks are balanced?
How can you confer saint hood on such as the Taliban? and can you truly think they are no threat to western lifestyle?
WHY?