Marion Scrymgour, who is a Minister in the Northern Territory government, yesterday took on Mal Brough and his invasion of NT aboriginal communities. It was time that someone of Marion's authority spoke up so strongly:

"Aboriginal Territorians are being herded back to primitivism of assimilation and the days of native welfare. It has been a deliberate, savage attack on the sanctity of Aboriginal family life." (Brough wants NT Minister to resign over intervention criticism, ABC News 24 October 2007)

The government is still spinning its intervention as purely about child welfare. Don't accept these Liberals. All Australians should make it their business to find out the truth about the coalition's indigenous policies. Start by reading this report!

Do you deny that these atrocities are being committed against these children?

What the hell has this Marion woman and her government done about it anyway? What makes her such an expert?

When children are needing to have their genitals surgically reconstructed something is very wrong.

What is the alternative?

I AM a member of the ALP and if I lived in the NT?
I would not be a member for one second, the best outcome for that territory would be a landslide defeat of this idiot government.
I suspect the lady is ,like some in my party part of the problem, not the solution.
Her actions are as bad as the worst fear tactics of this federal government.
May I remind posters it was under this shambolic NT government that many of the worst crimes against Aboriginal women and children have taken place.
Further she gives no plan or answers to such dreadful crimes.

I saw Ms Scrymgour on ABCTV news last night, and I was impressed with her obvious dignity, strength and resolve on behalf of NT Aborigines.

Belly: "May I remind posters it was under this shambolic NT government that many of the worst crimes against Aboriginal women and children have taken place."

What utter rubbish, Belly. If you had any idea at all about the history of Aboriginal dispossession in this country, including the NT, you would know that there have been numerous well-documented massacres and other crimes against Aborigines in the Top End since Europeans invaded it. The appalling situation that is described in the "Little Children Are Sacred" report can be attributed squarely to the neglect by successive conservative governments, both federally and in the NT.

Given your frequently right-wing opinions that you express in this forum, I consider Ms Scrymgour to be truer to traditional Labor values than you appear to be. In fact, it was the increasing dominance by the ALP Right that caused me to cease voting for them over a decade ago.

Little wonder that the electorate is faced with a "Tweedledum and Tweedledumber" choice in the forthcoming election.

"When children are needing to have their genitals surgically reconstructed something is very wrong."

for sure, just as well we got the army in to do those operations

I repeat my question: what is the alternative?

I still haven't heard one constructive suggestion for dealing with the problem.

Dignity does not excuse inaction. I don't accept the "poor little NT government is so helpless" argument, or the right of any culture to rape their kids. That doesn't mean I don't care about past massacres or other problems facing the Aboriginal people today.

Maybe we should just sit back and do nothing for another twenty years. Then we can all blame our federal conservative governments and be happy. So what if the babies have herpes?

CJMorgan asserts that the appalling situation detailed in the 'Little Children Are Sacred" report is all the fault of state and federal Liberal govts.

What utter rubbish Morgan. How can you be so biased as to make such a ludicrous and just plain wrong statement. Government agencies knew and did nothing about child abuse in the NT, in NSW, IN Qld etc in the last few years, and these were Labor govts.

Those I know on the ground in the NT who work in this field are to a man and woman staunchly of the left, and always considered themselves to be delivering small l liberal, leftist programmes.

At least cj you seem to now accept that child abuse in the NT aboriginal communities is real. Recently you were still claiming it was only "alleged".

And Mao and Stalin were maligned by the running dogs of the lackey press of the ruling hegemony, right CJ?

The full text of Marion's speech "Whose national emergency? Caboolture and Kirribili? or Milikapati and Mutijulu?" is available at: 'Labor minister lashes party over intervention' (SMH 24 October 2007) http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/labor-minister-lashes-party-over-intervention/2007/10/23/1192941065085.html.

PDF files of the full speech can be downloaded from this article.
A close reading might answer many of the concerns expressed so far. It will certainly raise many more about the current direction.

I disagree with Marion. I have never voted for the Coalition eithe at a State of Federal level and don't intend to however Marion appears to me to be using her Aboriginality to criticise legitimate moral and social reforms.
This is a chance for the ALP to be bi-partisan because the physical assults upon babies, children and young and old adults alike is appalling. The rapes and murders too are a grave evil.
That is why I do not appreciate the media and Marion carrying on like this.
They are behaving in a disgraceful manner.
When anyone white or black committs atrocities, then the authorities have to intervene for the sake of the innocent and the powerless.

When human beings, adults, and especially children, are abused they should receive protection from authorities. White Australians can't profess ignorance of these crimes any longer. The crimes cannot be met with indifference and silence. And, the excuse that "We are civilised, they are not, so leave them alone..." will no longer wash.
Action is the right course.

Right wing jc Morgan? yes Labor right, the only part of the ALP able to lead the party to government.
How can you divert the subject to invasion and murder?
It is about the criminal actions of Aboriginals against Aboriginals, isn't it?
How can doing nothing be the answer?
I am ashamed my Socially progressive party is being used by such as this lady to smoke screen an issue that shames us all.
That issue is not Howard's intervention but the need for it.
Not taking it out of the NT hands but the NT not fixing it.

Some apathetic OLO posters are very happy to let Governments and thus themselves , off the hook for their lack of responsibility in Aboriginal Affairs.

We demand and get any number of services for the disadvantaged ,drug and alcohol addicted , sick and aged in our Canberra and Sydney .

When it comes to the bush generally and Aboriginal Communities in particular, it's "we appreciate you giving us the use of your resources - but you will have to look after your own disadvantaged and make the most of your lot".

Aboriginal people had lived here in Australia successfully for 40,000 + years, they were and still can be adaptable - but that was until we arrived and did our best, through actions and then INACTIONS to ruin their societies .

The First Fleeters remarked on how healthy they were.

We took away their tools and are still doing it with the NT Intervention Legislationthat prevents any application of Traditional Law. Have a look at the Senate report .

We are inherently responsible for their majority of their ills and it's garbage to say we don't have the responsibility to help fix things up and get them back on their feet ,no matter how long or how much it takes .

As a leading architect working with and repairing Aboriginal housing in the NT said on Fran Kelly's Radio National today," a two bedroom poorly constructed house containing three families and 14 or so people - hot water services not even connected ".

It's a recipe for disaster and the disaster is upon us .

It's not good enough .

Ps . And to those that will howl "the blacks broke up the house for firewood " which is a conveniently oft perpetrated Myth ,the architect said that only 10% of his work was repairs .

Most of it was simply getting services such as water and sanitation services connected - if they were there.

C J Morgan:I consider Ms Scrymgour to be true to traditional Labor values.......That just about says it all. It explains why such terrible conditions in aboriginal communities have been allowed to fester.
And how the same Labor individuals are hating to see Howard deal with it albeit years too late.You can hardly play the victim when you are the cause of such misery.

Hang on Jim you do not think the destruction of homes is a lie do you?
And the poster above mine rubbish!
I am from the ALP no easy task to put the party first but if more would we would not need threads like this.
I challenge the Lady's balance and understanding of her peoples problem.
I do honestly think we Australians act like racists.
We know and understand some Aboriginals live in dreadful conditions, far too many far too dreadfully.
We say it is their fault far too often.
And we refuse to understand we look to the outside world far to unconcerned at our neglect.
Yes add me to the list of those who are against handouts.
But put me on the growing list of people who understand lack of education is a big part of the problem.
And the drug of sit down money without accountability is doing what all drugs do killing the need for change.
J C Morgan is a poster I will continue to respect, but we will differ often.
My ALP must evolve.
It is doing just that.
Elections are not won by other than mainstream party's, the river bed has moved much from the lights on the hill days.
It is wrong to think the party did not have to.
Rudd will craft policy's that put light and new breath into this problem.
Do not however confer sainthood on all Aboriginals, some of them are as racist as any man on earth, some have committed crimes against their own children.
Pre white man Australia had laws much harsher than ours laws that did not see remission such laws may need to return.
John Howard is no Friend of mine but he acted Kevin Rudd Sir please end this country's shame.

Here is another link to Marion's speech: Intervention is a weapon we know of old (The Age 26 October 2007) http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/intervention-is-a-weapon-we-know-of-old/2007/10/25/1192941242977.html
The download is also easier to read. I lived and worked in Maningrida for 4 years where she was our local member. My own feedback from the community, which is the second largest in the NT, is that the intervention has not really addressed the child abuse and health issues and that Mal Brough is more interested in his wider indigenous political agenda. Please read the speech!

I firmly stand by my every word, the lady has no fan in me.
Most of her speech was about the stolen generation , and true about a sometimes evil always tragic event.
Like the ALP I think it is past time.
Past time to ask why the violence against women and kids?
Why the neglect of state and federal governments?
What is so wrong with accountability FOR BOTH SIDES?
Why have we not fixed it generations ago?
And I demand my party in government fix it, remove the problem people of any color who feast on the issue , not fix it.
Keep the bleeding hearted liberals at bay ,they are the problem not the solution.

I revisit the thread and hope others do, it is clear evidence of why some from the Aboriginal community are No help at all to that community.
The lady has stated her regret at her speech, so she should! it again highlighted history, long ago history , in a one sided way.
I was targeted by a poster I regard as a good one, but both sides including my party agreed with me.
Let me make it clear, I am no greens supporter, NEVER!
I truly think we must stop bleeding hearted liberals and some within the Aboriginal community hurting the present and future of these people.
It is my view this lady should not be in Parliament house with a mop and bucket in her hands.
Hidden from some but not all of us is an industry based on really doing nothing about the tragic lifestyle some Aboriginals have.
Stolen generation, saying sorry, blaming whites, no accountability, and switching the debate from raped children,,bashed females drunken rage ,are symptoms.
Can I ask who will say sorry to my ancestors? dragged to this country in chains? who from nothing built this great country and the social welfare system that is all that stands between some and starvation?

Belly ,
Steady Up,the lady is where the action is.
Surely she is more believable than John howard and his government of "two facers".

She wants children protected too and the scourge of alcohol and violence gone.

Why did the troops on the ground ,the NT Police Association, say they wanted the Permit System to stay and then were completely ignored and dismissed by Brough and Howard.

That, to use a modern expression, simply "sucks"!

Hey,like yours, it seems our mob stole a loaf of bread to get here.That was a stroke of luck!

Our crew then set about quickly acquiring Aboriginal Land for free and have done very well thanks .

Am I asking for an apology for being dragged out to Australia? NO .

But let us get it straight - Australia wasn't built from your "nothing" - it was ,is, built on what the [Aboriginal] land and water could produce and the rocks and soil that are in it.

I was part of an economic system in the cattle industry where Aboriginal People worked for slave wages in the North of Australia and were then kicked off their traditional land when we ,the powerfull invaders, very reluctantly ,finally had to pay them a bit more than a pittance for their labour and the use of their productive land and water .

That sucked too!

read the speech of the lady with the mop and bucket, lets not cloud the issue it is about Howard's actions and the lack of action of my ALP in the NT.
NOT ONE MORE MINUTE THAT IS HOW LONG WE CAN WAIT to put an end to this problem.
Not one more time will I let such as this foolish lady fog the issue with stolen generation crap.
Has the white mans miss handling of Aboriginal welfare yet balanced with the damage some are doing to their own community?

CJ MORGAN refers to a woman in denial about a travesty of human indignity, debauchery and degradation as

I saw Ms Scrymgour on ABCTV news last night, and I was impressed with her obvious dignity, strength and resolve on behalf of NT Aborigines.

CJ..where is the criticism for this shambles of a government which has turned a blind eye to the child abuse going on under its nose for all the time of its incumbency ?

Nope...not a word.. just praise and 'impressed'...

If I ever wondered why you disagree so often with my thoughts, I am in no doubt now.. you brain is just.. well.. 'different'.

People point to tragic dehumanization of children...and you see an 'impressive stateswomen'.

The mind doth truly boggle.

You didn't even criticize the Labor government of NT for trying to turn this debacle into a political points scoring match.. ( ur welcome to criticize the Coalition for doing that also..I don't mind)

Nope.. "I'm IMMMMPRESSED" says CJ....

That rather says ....it all.

Boazy: "CJ..where is the criticism for this shambles of a government which has turned a blind eye to the child abuse going on under its nose for all the time of its incumbency ?"

Boazy, in case you're blind as well as dumb, I'm on record here as being quite vociferous about the shameful neglect and wilful indifference of the Howard government to Indigenous issues for the entirety of its 11-year incumbency.

Boazy: "You didn't even criticize the Labor government of NT for trying to turn this debacle into a political points scoring match.. ( ur welcome to criticize the Coalition for doing that also..I don't mind)"

Er, no - but I have been quite vocal about the utter cynicism of the Howard government's apparently slightly successful wedge tactic. This "intervention" is little more than a political showpiece unveiled three months out from an election - as a nakedly obvious and desperate ploy to try and save the bacon of what has arguably been the most antagonistic government to Indigenous people and their intersts for several decades.

Belly, I mean absolutely no disrespect to you, but I'm saddened when I see a good union man and Labor stalwart so easily led with respect to Indigenous issues. Frankly, I don't understand your antipathy to Aboriginal people, but I guess we'll have to agree to differ - unless of course you continue to literally denigrate them, in which case I'll just have to disagree with you openly :)

It is heartening to hear that people in the Maningrida community are opposed to what is happening and are taking Mal Brough to the High Court to defend their rights. His bulldozer approach to complex issues must be stopped. The whole idea that nothing was happening in communities to address the serious problems they face is ludicrous.

Yesterday I received some photos of Year 12 students from the Maningrida school doing work experience as part of their NT Certificate of Education. In 2006 eleven students completed their NTCE at their own community school. This kind of good news needs to be multiplied not trodden on.

These paedophiles are doing a better job of destroying the Aboriginal people than Mal Brough could ever manage.

If you really hate our indigenous people, leave them and their poor, broken children alone and just let the kiddie pornophiles finish the job. There goes the next generation, an emotionally crippled wreck. There goes the future.

Distressed Aboriginal leaders first came to Canberra petitioning the government for help not eleven but seventeen years ago. Whatever has been done so far has been completely ineffectual by both parties.

Comments in favour of this shameful status quo just make my blood boil.

At least somebody is trying to do something different. I hope with all my heart that they succeed. In my opinion comments on how successful the intervention may or may not have been are completely premature.

I do, however, agree that we the people must be vigilant and hold our politicians very accountable regarding any hidden agendas that could ultimately increase the suffering and degradation of the indigenous communities.

J C Morgan you miss judge me, I hurt for these people every day.
I work for them every chance I get.
Mate truly you can never know the pain ,true overbearing pain I feel for them.
One night this week, not close to the first time my phone rang I traveled for 3 hours plus picked up a 38 year old man drove him that distance and one hour More.
To his daughters who will try to keep him from killing himself.
If they fail it will not be the first time.
Can you not see Marion got of subject?
Use her dislike for our dreadful prime minister to rehash the stolen generation, not the child rapes?
Not the wife bashing?
Can white man always be wrong?
My ALP Marion herself should hang their heads in shame.
Picture a small boy victim of rape, dirty and covered in scares, lice in his head and bald in places because of it.
Want to meet him? not in the NT but like most missions in this country near by.
We must not use the past to prevent doing something about the present.
I have not gone bad JC maybe my intention to make every Australian any color accountable is blinding me but I have no faith in yesterdays wrongs being the answer for todays shame.

Belly ,
as I understand it Marion has indicated that she went a bit "overboard " with her criticsms and would on reflection have said things differently .

This is completely understandable .

Who doesn't get fired up over the huge problems Aboriginal People have to deal with .

I often say that if the Japanese had over-run Australia 60 years ago , it is fairly obvious that they would have dealt with us now cocky whites in a similar colonising way, as they mined our best land and that we could well be living in poverty down the creek or next to the tip ,with our culture decimated and our social and family cohesion and discipline under great pressure from no work ,racism ,ignorance ,sake and opium etc.

No 61 , Would you do much better with three families to a two bedroom falling down house provided by the Japanese , I don't think so !

Ps.Absolutely no offence intended to the Japanese , whom I respect .

Kartiya Jim, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I lived below the poverty line for more than a decade, and have also lived in a third world country.

I have had two children ravaged by sexual abuse, and I have witnessed firsthand the emotional, psychological and spiritual devastation of rape on young lives.

I am simply stating that if women and children can't live in safety they need help.

Can they walk down a street alone without fear? Do they wonder which member of their family is going to get their face bashed in tonight? How can mothers protect their children from the effects of drunken rage when they can't even save themselves?

Would you feel safe walking unescorted through those streets? Would you leave your kids there for a week?

The laws should serve the people not perpetuate their suffering. The existing system has not worked. It is failing Aboriginal children and failing their mothers.

These may turn out to be bad laws also, but to do nothing, to try nothing, is ridiculous and just plain wrong.

Jim behave your self friend, I am one of 16 kids 8 survived to grow up, sometimes the house had dirt floors always it was a hungry home.
Poverty has nothing to do with our actions.
Every day my parents told us get a job work hard buy a block of land learn to have a better life.
We did, almost every one of us from a start well below most we the brothers became most valued workers in every job we had.
The girls are mother and grand mothers of kids mostly doing well.
Do you know what the idiot child welfare did to our family?
because we often went hungry?
YES MARIAN SAID SHE WENT TOO FAR, SHE CRIMSON WELL DID TOO!
The position she holds must be used to progress her people or not at all.
None of my family feared rape, none feared mum being bashed .
Do you understand even in the worst home in the world parents must love the children more than themselves?
Saying sorry? ok get it over with I am sorry for the actions of people dead long ago, to every one who ever hurt an Aboriginal.
Who will say sorry to these women and kids Jim?
How truly childlike to demand I say sorry for others actions.
To think that will help in any way.
To refuse to understand some self help some action by those in need is not needed too.

CJ.... you said:

This "intervention" is little more than a political showpiece unveiled three months out from an election - as a nakedly obvious and desperate ploy

I quite agree.

But the closest you came to 'being on record' blah blah was:

[The appalling situation that is described in the "Little Children Are Sacred" report can be attributed squarely to the neglect by successive conservative governments, both federally and in the NT.]

So... I fail to understand why you would speak to defensively of Scrymgour?

The 'reaction' by NT Labor is as cynical as the 'intervention' of the Feds.

The seriously biggest tragedy of all this, is that the Aboriginal community is the political footy. So... a better approach would have been equal condemnation of Scrymgour AND the feds.

Boazy: "But the closest you came to 'being on record' blah blah was:..."

Unlike some people, I find it rather boring repeating myself time and again in this forum. Since joining OLO, I've made numerous comments that are generally critical of relations between governments of both persuasions and Indigenous people in Australia.

With respect to the NT 'Intervasion', I've expressed similar thoughts to Ms Scrymgour's ever since this obvious political stunt was first announced (e.g. at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=6040#85214). Given that Ms Scrymgour's speech broke ranks in the Rudd "Me Too" Party line, it's unsurprising that she's been prevailed upon to get back in line. Such is the nature of Australian politics, and one reason why I support neither major party.

Mind you, I agree that the records of all recent governments in Australia have been pretty appalling with respect to the interests of Indigenous Australians.

So what do we do? remember I have got down on my knees and said sorry, a chance exists the father of my grand father hurt some Aboriginals I am sorry.
It may be the same idiot welfare people who tried so hard to take my siblings and self away did take some Aboriginal kids away, wrong and for that I am sorry.
But I am far more sorry any one yes any one ,needed to intervene in the NT, or in truth needs still to do so in every state.
I am sorry that true great men like Noel Pierson are not heard instead of such as Marion.
I am sorry that bleeding hearted liberals continue to do more harm than good .
And I know accountability and education for every AUSTRALIAN on this issue are much needed.
Our failure to fix it in over 200 years is shameful.
And those who blame only the white man for this shame are blind.