I agree Bronwyn. I didn't mean it was a stupid word in general, I meant it was a stupid word to be applied to pole dancing!

Bek

Here's a link to a previous OLO article entitled "We haven't come a long way baby at all" by Melinda Tankard Reist. It contains a specific reference to pole dancing and is a well argued case that you might like to have a look at if you have the time.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=5624

Good luck with your essay!

I've been pretty busy and not had the time to return to this thread so, as often happens, I have come in again when it looks like its finished.

But Bronwyn, I found your last couple of posts really interesting. You argue "as one who believes passionately that women have every right to stand on an equal footing with men..." that pole dancing, stripping etc. demean women as a gender.

I would argue that "I believe both genders should be on an equal footing". A semantic difference but one that doesn't seem to imply that women have to somehow step UP to gain equality, nor that women want everything men have. Simply that we both are regarded with the same respect, rights etc. Then men would also be free to let their emotions show; to share what many of them consider to be their own genders' burdens.

Therefore those men and women who engage in what society regards as the sleazier aspect of human relations - both as spectacle and voyeur- perhaps demean humanity but not, I believe, either one gender or another specifically.

Sometimes we are so conditioned to gendered thinking that we don't realise that we ourselves are furthering it.

I lived in Africa for many years where, as in many countries, the Lion is considered "The King of the Jungle" "The most noble of beasts" etc. I went along with that and even wrote a children's story about a dog who thought he was a lion and therefore the King of his suburban street.

Then, both a report I read and observation turned me around.

A pride consists of females and young. The lone males purpose is to inseminate the pride. The pride do the hunting. Therefore they eat before the Lion and violently repulse him if he tries to get in for any of the choice pieces. When they are full they leave him their leftovers. While they go about their daily activities of socialising, training the next generation, sleeping, etc. he remains outside the group as the watchperson. Females in eostrus seek him out; they repulse him if he is not welcome - sometimes with the help of their companions. He has no part in the bringing up of the young.

He lives a solitary, lone existence on the edge of the pride and, when they feel he is of no more use he is challenged by one of the young and either killed or banished to the bush by the pride and eventually dies of hunger, old age and neglect.

"King" of the beasts? I don't believe so. But lionesses are, without doubt the "pride" of the beasts.

Romany

Just happened to notice by chance that the thread had been added to!

"I would argue that 'I believe both genders should be on an equal footing'. A semantic difference but one that doesn't seem to imply that women have to somehow step UP to gain equality, nor that women want everything men have. Simply that we both are regarded with the same respect, rights etc. Then men would also be free to let their emotions show; to share what many of them consider to be their own genders' burdens."

Well said, I applaud every word.

I agree the onus shouldn't be on women to have to 'step up' to gain equality. In my opinion though the gap is definitely there and like it or not if we are to bridge that space women will have to make that step. We might have equality of opportunity, though even the reality of that for most women is still far removed from the lip service paid to it. But we are still not on the same footing when it comes to having a respected voice in decision making and being able to achieve the same degree of control in the way society is organised. That's why I get cranky about things like pole dancing. I see it as lead in the saddle bag, holding us all back from achieving that step up.

I agree with you that it's demeaning to all humanity but I don't think it contains men in the way it does women.