Incase you've been off the radar. Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews has unloaded several mags of racist ammo on probably the most victimized people in recent history, the Sudanese/Sudanese Australian community. Google it, if you have too.

Just this morning Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews had another go, apparently attempting to justify his blatant racism by using some 'proof' and 'justification' of his mouth flapping open.

"Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews has condemned an assault on a police officer by a group of youths in Melbourne's south-east as not reflecting "the Australian way of life".

A detective suffered a chipped tooth and sore leg after being king-hit and kicked after approaching a group of young men while on patrol in Noble Park about 2am today.

Police, who are questioning an 18-year-old man over the incident, have confirmed that the group approached by the detective included Sudanese youths.

Speaking outside the Metropolis international conference on migration, Mr Andrews said the attack was not an isolated incident, although he declined to provide further details."

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/cop-attack-unaustralian/2007/10/11/1191696039363.html

What a blatant piece of tripe. This fella needs to come up with some evidence of the Sudanese being justifiably singled out from other immigrant communities, or step down.

Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews has apparently got a habit of letting his mouth flap open like its hinges have rusted off and refusing consistantly to provide statistics, justification and even support from the police who've basically said "what you talkin' 'bout willis?.

StG the police dont use statistics to vilify a particular race or group of people its not there job to do that. Its there job to enforce the law and that’s it!

I would be interested if anybody could find any instances of police commissioners singling out particular ethnic groups as being more susceptible to crime.

Bring all the Sudanese to Australia is not going to change a single thing back in the Sudan! It will just cause divide in the Australian community.

I think the best option which I think both sides could agree on is giving the Sudanese (and all refugee’s for that matter) temporary protection visa’s and once things die down in there country of origin they can return.

The facts are that refugee’s are going to be causing an increase in crime for decades to come! This is common knowledge and any body denying this will only be showing their inability to grasp reality

You're quite correct, StG - this is blatant dog-whistling at its worst. Anybody who doesn't see through this blatant ploy is either catatonic or racist.

ET: "StG the police dont use statistics to vilify a particular race or group of people its not there job to do that. Its there job to enforce the law and that’s it!"

Er, yes - but what do you say about police stats that indicate that the crime rate among Sudanese immigrants is the same or less than for the general population?

Andrews is an odious turd, and always has been since he was elected. He and the tired government of which he is a Minister deserve to be chucked out on their arses. And not just because they're trying to play the 'race' card yet again.
I suspect there'll be few surprises in who responds to this particular dog whistle at the ballot box.

As someone said in government, it says a lot about what he thinks of his fellow Australians, when he believes he will benefit from targeted immigration policy like this.

You know it *SHOULD* be Islamic people. But he knows all to well that there is a sizeable muslim population and that Australians can see through the sham that is the Iraqi war.

So what does he do to trigger the racist emotions alive before this election, and at the same time avoid a political backlash from the targeted group? Andrews picks a group of Africans. A tiny minority, but symbolically much greater than their voting footprint.

Should there be any white refugees in the near future should they be taken half way around the world and resettled in an African country or resettled somewhere in a peacful white country? Which makes the most sense? It is not commonsense to bring these people half way around the world to settle them in an alien culture when they could be settled in a peaceful African state. Why doesnt Mandela offer to take them, Is he a racist against Africans from other states or something.

What the hell do you think they are escaping from over there?. Tribal territorial warfare!! Why set the stage for the same thing here when you can plainly see the tribal terriotiral warfare happening in all the trouble spots in the world.

Alright, EasyTimes...

"the police dont use statistics to vilify a particular race or group of people its not there job to do that."

It's *nobody's* job to vilify a particular race, unless their job is to create division and unease. And actually, what the police have done is use statistics to demonstrate that all races *other* than Sudanese ones are slightly more likely to commit crimes.

"I would be interested if anybody could find any instances of police commissioners singling out particular ethnic groups..."

There have been police operations investigating organised crime among certain nationalities - Italians, Chinese, Vietnamese, even Russian.

"Bring all the Sudanese to Australia is not going to change a single thing back in the Sudan!"

Nobody is proposing bringing *all* the Sudanese to Australia (which would absolutely change everything in Sudan). The ones brought here are those that genuinely have nowhere else to go, and the purpose is to assist those individuals, not solve the crisis in Sudan - although a case could be made that overpopulation in Sudan has been part of the problem.

"I think the best option...is giving the Sudanese...temporary protection visas and once things die down in there country of origin they can return."

Mostly certain they *can* return. But if the situation in their countries of origin lasts long enough and the refugees put down roots here (getting permanent jobs, having babies etc.), forcing them to go home is hardly reasonable.

BTW, if say, an unprecented natural disaster occurred in NZ, and we accepted thousands of refugees from there, how strongly would you feel about the need for them to return?

"The facts are that refugee’s are going to be causing an increase in crime for decades to come! This is common knowledge and any body denying this will only be showing their inability to grasp reality"

Actually the facts are that refugees have been causing crime at rates not measurably higher than Australian-born and regular migrants. This is basic statistics and anybody denying this will only be their inability to grasp reality.

I find it intriguing that no one has coughed up ANY statistical evidence of this racial targeting being even remotely justifiable. Where's the stats on Sudanese crime per head of population etc?. Isn't that what all this is fundamentally about?. Or isn't it?

If Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews has issues with the calibre of immigrants from Sudan, perhaps he should consider implementing education programmes and some sort of cultural overlap programmes. Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews obviously doesn't comprehend where these people came from and the sort of 'society' they escaped from. Their lives have been beyond anything most of us could get our heads around. Assimilation would be difficult for them. Help them. Don't victimize them more. After all, Immigration Minister Kevin Andrews OWN DEPARTMENT told them could come here, didn't they?.

Someone mentioned the Islam target.

Here's some facts on the Sudanese:

Sunni Muslim 70% (in north), Christian 5% (mostly in south and Khartoum), indigenous beliefs 25%

*gasp* The perfect target. Uneducated and Muslim.

We've been having pretty much this precise argument in the refugee thread, where I've pointed out the dodginess of the claims against the sudanese.
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=1101#20118

Those of you who don't want any more intake of refugee people who find it difficult to assimilate express your feelings at the next election. Those of you who feel that refugees are being victimised in the countries which take them in should go to where the refugees come from & help sort out their problems & prevent them from becoming refugees. Yeah well, you won't get travel allowances & living away from home allowances but, you sure would feel great having done more good there than by mere criticising what the rest of us supposedly does so wrong. Ah yeah and, you have to get used to being criticised for trying to help.

Of course!. We should just sit round and let the people running this circus throw rocks at anyone that pops up on their bigot radar, allowing the MASSIVELY over represented attack dog bigots to have an officially sanctioned field day.

Sorry Pauline. 'individual' just made me see the error of my ways.

What's the view like from the fence, mate?. Nice stick by the way, watch out for the stinky end!. Oh, you are.

Easytimes, in relation to your claims about Sudanese bashings...

I never, ever thought I'd say this, but Andrew Bolt said it best:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22570575-25717,00.html

"With all due respect, Mr Talkback Caller, you are an idiot. We've got thugs of all colours -- white in particular -- now punching police and anyone else they find, and the Sudanese aren't the worst of them."

ANDREWS the DOG WHISTLER and NEWHOUSE THE HYPOCRITICAL MONEY GRUBBING POLITICAL OPPORTUNIST ?

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:9vEMtcheQpoJ:aap.newscentre.com.au/cpsunat/070728/library/human_rights/15869536.html+%22george+newhouse%22%22alvarez%22%22pro+bono&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=11

I have never believed that these high profile lawyers do things for to help "unjustly treated people in hardship" and NOW we see exactly why....

Newhouse has used Vivian Alvarez to a) Raise his political profile and b) get money from the government (if the reports are true)

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/

"MORAL LECTURES DON'T COME CHEAP"....

So, while we are ripping into Andrews.. we might like to spread the bile around abit.. there are plenty of others well deserving of it.
Nothing is quite so odious as a politician USING people.. right ?

Andrews..the Sudanese
Newhouse..Vivian Alvarez. (Pro Bono ? HAH! why did he then bill the government for $170,000 plus ?)

I have to agree that the focus on Sudanese is a bit... 'Tampa07'-ish....that was until I heard the 'RECONCILIATION' thing this morning.. I guess thats 'Tampa2_07'..or something, as in 'Some big issue to attract support'....

Boazy, maybe if you read up a bit about what pro bono means and when a lawyer may be entitled to compensation, it may help to clear up a couple of misunderstandings for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_bono

I'm sure there are more comprehensive sites for you, but you can do that if you need more information surely?

Sorry Pauline. 'individual' just made me see the error of my ways.
Stg, sorry to dampen your enthusiasm but, sadly it'll be some time yet before you are capable of seeing. You can't expect to see if you don't open your eyes. I have been through this crap in the early days in europe & when I came to australia I truly believed I had come to a better place. but, only ten years later australia too became like europe. Just wait another ten years & your kids will tell you the same.

No Boazy.

The "Sudanese problem" is the dog whistle. "Reconciliation" is the wedge.

Not all that sophisticated, really - but apparently it works.

Sure a police officers was bashed by some Sudanese refugee’ and they say its an isolated incident. Lets not forget this one a few days before hand.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22547327-661,00.html

Sure white people are involved in attacks on the police as well and I am sure a lot of the lefties on the forum secretly endorse these attack because they are part of the same hippy/ferals movements which are responsible for many of these attacks on the good people of the Australian police force.

There is also a BIG difference between the two 1. is a home grown problem which Australian society as a whole has to work on. The other is an imported one in which we seem to want to aggravate by bring more of the agitators into the country.

Its like asking for more ferals and hippies to be brought into Australia so that we can be culturally enrich for the sake of the loud looney left. Its completely wrong and goes against common sense.

Settle down ET, jeez. I can almost see you frothing at the mouth as I read that tripe. As a "youth" at one time, I had a friend that at one time when he was drunk certainly did abuse a police officer, he also stole windscreen wipers and number plates and got beaten up by the coppers too. Only it wasn't covered by the media.

He then went on and completed a PhD in science and is now also a police officer.

The point of this story is that "youths" regardless of origin, are "youths", the Sudanese have done nothing to single them out as an ethnic threat, regardless of their country or continent of origin. The media doesn't have anything to report unless it's something out of the ordinary, what about the party crashing phenomenon by masses of "Australian youths" that respond to internet invitations? Plenty of them have ended in a number of riots that have also been covered by the media, yet no major comments have been made about where to send those idiots. Leave the Sudanese alone, if they break the law, they will be dealt with like any other Australian resident under the law.

Easytimes: "Sure white people are involved in attacks on the police as well and I am sure a lot of the lefties on the forum secretly endorse these attack because they are part of the same hippy/ferals movements which are responsible for many of these attacks on the good people of the Australian police force."

Oh come on, Easytimes. This is uninformed, insulting speculation that does yourself no service whatsoever. Honestly, pick up your game.
I could just as easily say right wing conservative bogans here secretly want to go out and bash the Sudanese. Those callow insults don't get us anywhere.
I realise you're not singling anyone out, but in casting a wide net over an entire political spectrum, you're attacking a hell of a lot of people. I may disagree with many aspects of typical right wing views, but quite frankly, I wouldn't stoop to commentary quite that crass - to claim your ideological opponents are actively wishing violence.
It's probably naive of me to want better standards of debate here, but I do.

As far as your other incident... see, there's these things called statistics. It's where people take all the incidents together, and make a big picture out of them.
Oh, wait a sec... apparently people already do that - in fact, the police have made certain comments about the statistics.
Victorian Police Commissioner Christine Nixon has made the point that Sudanese are under-represented in the crime stats.

You don't quite seem able to cotton on to this, but for the sake of others, do try.

ET,
In Perth the prisons are full of Africans, why dont the leftist journos ask the WA police commisioner for crime statistics involving non aboriginal blacks whom are incarcerated.

We all know the statistics are fudged to support black armband view of history but come off the grass, these africans could be swapped with white Zimbabweans and there would be no problem and we wouldnt have to pay them centrelink.

A first offence should meen automatic deportation, we can have the pick of the refugees, this mob are ungrateful, we saved them and this is how they pay us back.

They can go home to be killed by the ganjaweed for all I care.

And oh yeh, one more thing....

The Africans and Aboriginals have pretty much declared war on one another in WA.. So yeh another well thought out policy by the UN.

A bit like cane toads really.

One exotic species attacking an indigenous species that wont be able to cope.....

NICE ONE!

"In Perth the prisons are full of Africans"

"We all know the statistics are fudged"

In other words, SCOTTY, there is no way we can very that your claim is true, because you will argue that the data is unreliable, and only you have access to the truth.

At any rate, the statistics most definitely do indicate that indigenous "black" Australians are over-represented in our prison population. I suppose you are suggesting it would be better for Australia to just let these people languish in prison, as there is nothing that can be done to overcome their innate inability to integrate (and you can't exactly send them home).

Even if Africans were over-represented in the WA prison population, and you accept this is evidence that, on average, black-skinned people have more trouble peacefully co-existing in a modern nation state than white-skinned people, and believe there is a case for preserving "white supremacy", then surely whites should be showing their moral superiority by helping out those of different skin-colour, just as we help out children, the old, the sick, the mentally and physical retarded etc. And we can do that far better here than if African refugees are forced to remain in their countries of often.

As it is, the appears to very little evidence that Africans are having particular difficulties integrating, and the isolated anecodates that we hear of are no different to similar anecdotes that flew around when the Italians and Greeks first arrived here 50 years ago, or when the Chinese first starting arriving in significant numbers 15 years ago. There are always small teething problems (which are often more perception than reality), but absolutely no evidence that I can see that any particular ethnic group/nationality is somehow likely to be genetically incapable of gradually integrating into a modern, economically prosperous liberal democracy.

CJ.. actually I think Howards 'recognition' thing might turn out to be a bit of a coup.

Labor and others can only now play 'catch up' politics :) how can they criticize it?.... they simply did not think of it... aah.. poor them... they are back to 'sorry day'....as IF.. a word.. 'sorry' will do much.. sure.. might generate a bit of feel good..but wow.. a CONSTITUTIONAL recognition.. does wayyyy more than a simple word 'sorry'.

It also says "sorry" in more tangible and enduring terms.

But after all that.. I kind of agree.. Andrews was a bit dog whiste-ish...and even this recognition thing is a bit 'opportunistic'...but no less opportunistic than the politicization of 'sorry' but when have I ever said politicians are anything but that ? :)

See, 'individual'. It didn't take long for the officially sanctioned attack dog racists to turn up. I dunno if you you've ever seen American History X, individual. But they all look like that big fat mate of Edward Norton's whose got some built up 'my mother didn't breast feed me', a coon stole my lunch, I've read two chapters of Mein Kampf (so I know it all), safety of anonimity animosity towards ANYONE that their 'pa' said was scum....their 'pa' said that while standing in the dole office, frustrated that he's late for an appointment with government housing....with four feral shaved headed 'kids' in tow.

They will never show crime stats against ethnic minorities because they would be accused of fanning hate, pandering to racists and doing nothing to solve the overall problem.

It also must be asked about the Sudanese commitment to integrating. Why were 20 Sudanese youths out drinking at 2am on Tuesday morning? Don’t they have jobs? Or are they still after many years of low unemployment unable to find work and just get centerlink payments to buy themselves bottles of jimmy and bundey.

If you are new to a community you should be working twice as hard to be accepted not sitting around at 2am on a week night drinking alcohol bought with centerlink payments and bashing cops!

In the short run refugee are an economic burden to the society they move to, in the long run they are a social burden due to them destroying our sense of community and togetherness and bring “diversity” into a previously united community.

Having refugee here makes as much sense as this thing! Its the pride of the New Zealand air force! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT60SkXN1UY

Why do some people always turn a behaviour related issue into a racial issue. What's the bloody difference if a perpetrator is white, black or whatever. Antisocial behaviour is not unique to any particular race. What is peculiar to race is to let kinship overide any sense of moral & right. People naturally are more defensive of their own rather than someone of another race. Ethnic minority is naturally prone to be victimised in ANY society. If members of one such group happen to stray into wrongdoing their actions are naturally exagerated by others. I witness that on an everyday basis as a member of a minority group where I live. I accept that. What I fail to accept is that people who are not directly affected by such circumstances condemn those who express their view on account of their experiences. STG, I am at a loss how you arrive at the conlusion that I am a fence sitter unless you don't know the meaning of the word. What exactly is wrong with my suggestion to help prevent people from becoming refugees & having to leave their home.

I am amazed at how quickly people can turn a simple exercise of normal
government policy into a racial riot.

This whole shmozzle started when the immigration dept announced that as
Australia had received its quota of refugees from Somalia & Sudan
for the year, no more would be coming till the next years quota started.

There is nothing in that to cause the uproar that ensued.
Is it unreasonable to believe that the whole thing was blown up as a
political opportunity ?

Bazz: "Is it unreasonable to believe that the whole thing was blown up as a political opportunity ?"

Of course it was - by that toad Kevin Andrews, as a dog-whistling exercise to try and attract the racist vote back to the government. Duh.

Oh Gord !

CJ Morgan,
just a simple straight forward reply would be appreciated. Of which national & racial background would you & the australian indigenous prefer to allow more people into Australia. a; refugees & b; immigrants & c; stop immigration altogether. I truly believe that this is a serious question so please no idealist gobledeegook or evasive ridicule. Remember, those with no retort resort to ridicule.

I certainly can't speak for Indigenous people, but in response to individual's question my simple answer is:

(a) refugees

CJ Morgan,
thanks for your reply. Anyone else like to state their preference or rather, which group they believe would contribute to a more harmonious Australia ?

From Indigenous perspective you are all refugees, why else leave your otherwise perfectly comfortable homelands?

Oh, thats right, i forgot 'progress' and then reconciliation.

Scotty- Once again seems the only one who tells it like it is and back it with facts.
Speaking of Kevin Andrews he denies our meat workers to enter Australia but ALL other Industries is fine?
Must be a done deal with the cruel Live Animal Exporters Industry.
Why single out JUST meat workers otherwise.

Rainier, Progress & reconcilliation is not something that other people can give you. It has to come from yourself. To reconcile you have to not only recognise the other's shortcomings but your own as well.
What I am asking is, do some refugees contribute to our society more than others ? By accepting too many refugees are we not risking losing the very life style the refugees come to Australia for ? A refugee is a refugee, no matter how poor or uneducated. Not every refugee is one in the sense of the word though. Some are expelled from their society because of their inability to lead a life without causing trouble. Are we obliged to take them in as refugees ? I have witnessed troublemakers being chucked out & sent to another community. It sort of solved the first community's problem but created a new one for the other.
I am for helping people in need but not for doing things for people who just hold out their hand & then bite the hand that gave.

individual you should start a new post with your question as I dont think most people on OLO will see it here.

Easytimes
Yes- Well spoken indeed.

It appears that Australian Federal Police (AFP) Commissioner Mick Keelty isn't all that impressed with Andrews either:

" Mr Keelty also told The Bulletin that police were doing their best to engage with Australia's Muslim community and the Sudanese.

He appeared to take a swipe at Mr Andrews, who earlier this month accused Sudanese people of fighting each other in nightclubs, joining gangs and drinking alcohol in parks.

'If you want to marginalise every Sudanese person that's come to the country, then the easy way to do it is to label them all as criminals,' Mr Keelty said.

'If you want to marginalise the Islamic community, label them all terrorists.

'I mean, what we've got to do is just be guarded in our language and don't marginalise or isolate people through the language we use.'

Asked if Mr Andrews should have been more circumspect in his language, Mr Keelty replied: 'That's a matter for Kevin Andrews.'"

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/news/queensland/i-knew-haneef-case-wasnt-strong-keelty/2007/10/23/1192941058015.html

In my lifetime , Australia has been transformed from a second-hand Anglo-Irish society to one of the most culturally diverse places on this earth, and it has happened peacefully. Mr Kevin Andrews needs to be re-educated.
The only way to show him that his views don't represent the majority of voters - is to not re-elect him.

Nice one Foxy!

While on the subject of Mr Andrews -last night I attended a debate where Australia's involvement in the Iraq war was the topic. Mr Andrews joined the Labour Party's candidate, the Greens' candidate,
the Democrats' candidate, and an Independent canddate in this discussion.

The person who was to chair the event was to be the Islamic Council of Victoria's spokesman and lawyer Waleed Aly, however he was replaced by a lawyer (I suspect at Mr Andrews insistance).

Mr Andrews (not surprisingly) said that Australia had been obligated to join the war against "brutal dictator" Saddam Hussein, who had been a threat to world peace. "We should stay as long as wanted by the Iraqi people to establish peaceful government and democracy," Mr Andrews told the listeners.

No mention was made of any withdrawal or how terrorism in Iraq has grown in direct proportion to the time that we and the Americans have been in Iraq.

I was hoping for a healthy debate on the war. All we got was more lies
from Mr Andrews. He spoke about 'Human Rights.'

But, he failed to answer a question put to him by a member of the audience, who asked, "If the government is so concerned about human rights - what was China doing at the APEC Conference in Sydney?
China's record on Human Rights (according to Amnesty International)
is atrocious!"

Also what amazed me was the huge presence of both Federal and local
police at this gathering. (Again, at Mr Andrews request). Did he not feel safe in his own Electorate?

Or did he want to intimidate the audience? (Shades of the KGB, CIA,
or the Stasi!).

After last night, it really confirmed for me, who the real threat to peace and stability was, both here and overseas!

Foxy
You will probably find it was the Islamic Council themselves who requested the sercurity.
In Sydney a few years ago some of them locked the other out of their own meeting and police had to be called.
There are many who do not agree with the present Islamic leaders or acknowledge them as such.
We need Australian Muslim leaders who will hounour their word and their MOUs.
We do not have that at the moment.
As for Kevin Andrews ONLY the red meat Industry by blocking us from opening abattoirs because he wont let us bring in staff to work - hes a discrace.
How many votes and funds does that get you Mr Andrews?
To single out just one Industry is a disrace.
However that doesnt mean hes not right about the trouble with many of these people in WA.
Its nice to help people but unless coming to work here for an agreed time Australia should STOP brining in any more migrants full stop.
We have no water and many of them bring their life style along with them.
Stealing rape Break and Enter .
Now before you all have a go at me- Check with the courts over the last thirty years and see where the crime has risen mainly in migrants numbers.
Facts are facts.

Foxy, can you contact me on wizofaus@hotmail.com? I had hoped to attend that speech too, but family commitments prevented me. I would very much like to see Mr Andrews voted out too, but unfortunately the swing needed is rather ambitious.

Dear dnicholson,

I would prefer not to contact you on your private email - same as I
want mine to stay private. I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have via this forum.

Foxy, understood, however I'm looking for volunteers in the area to help out with an awareness campaign.

Dear dnicholson,

Sorry, I'm not the one you need. I'm politically rather naive, and not really "gung-ho," about issues. For me it's a learning process, one whose options I prefer to remain open.

Mr Andrews disappointed me in his answers about our involvement in Iraq. I felt he was either not being honest, or simply espoused his party's line. (Which amounted to the same thing).

However, I'm not prepared to be part of any "awareness" campaign.
It's not something I feel qualified to do. But, I wish you luck in your endeavours.

It's good to see that the execrable Kevin Andrews has been getting some stick in the past few days for telling lies about the Mohamed Haneef case.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/11/02/2079816.htm

But what's new about a Howard government minister telling porkies for political gain?