Ah, I see, mhaze.

Net zero is dead, yet governments everywhere are “recalibrating” their policies to suit it. That’s quite the contortion. Sounds less like a victory and more like someone furiously rewriting their own press release.

You claim the world is “mouthing one thing and doing another,” but:

- The EU is legally bound to climate targets.
- U.S. clean energy investment hit record highs in 2024, even with Trump back in charge.
- China installed more solar in 2023 than the entire world did in 2022.
- India is adding renewables faster than coal.

If that’s a retreat, it’s the noisiest, most heavily funded one in history.

As for Denmark and nuclear - Denmark already runs on more than 50% wind. Their interest in nuclear doesn’t mean renewables failed. It means they’re not dumb enough to bet the future on a single energy source. That’s called diversification - something fossil fuel advocates seem to think is heresy.

And “no country is on track”? Welcome to the real world. No complex system hits 2050 targets like a metronome. That’s why they’re called targets. They guide policy and investment. If missing the finish line by a few years makes it all meaningless, I suppose we should scrap the Olympics too.

You can call it recalibration if it makes the backpedal sting less. But let’s not pretend it’s the funeral you were hoping for. The global economy is still marching toward clean energy - it’s just not waiting around for coal apologists to catch up.

//Wow, that's quite an exercise in rewriting history.//

Funny you say that. I’ve just finished pointing out the relevant bits of a past debate where you brushed off a previous skedaddling the same way. Would you like me to correct you here as well?

The huge rate of wind and solar roll out is a joke. Despite the trillions of dollars being spent, wind and solar generate about half as much power as nuclear. The "massive rollout" of wind and solar in China is in fact at a glacial pace when compared with the ten percent per year nuclear rollout of the French half a century ago.

The thing that gets me scratching my head is the thought of how wind and solar projects will attract finance. Aside from the chaotically variable output, wind and solar generation tend to come on at the same time, crashing the spot price of electricity. The more wind and solar in the system, the worse the problem gets. It is no wonder so many projects are failing or being abandoned.

You are not the only one scratching your head, Fester. What you say is true: the more unreliables we get, the higher our power bills get. Australia is mis-ruled by lunatics.

Fester and ttbn,

It’s always fascinating watching people argue that cheaper energy sources are the reason power bills are going up. Wind and solar have consistently driven wholesale electricity prices down, which is exactly why coal and gas are struggling to compete without subsidies.

//Despite the trillions of dollars being spent, wind and solar generate about half as much power as nuclear.//

Not anymore. In 2023, wind and solar generated more electricity globally than nuclear - and they’re still scaling faster. Nuclear had a 50-year head start and far more public subsidy. Wind and solar reached that level in just a couple of decades.

//The ‘massive rollout’ of wind and solar in China is in fact at a glacial pace when compared with the ten percent per year nuclear rollout of the French half a century ago.//

You’re comparing China’s rollout of an entirely new grid across a continent-sized country to a top-down state nuclear build in 1970s France. China is leading the world in both renewables and nuclear, because it doesn't share your ideology about what “counts.”

//Wind and solar generation tend to come on at the same time, crashing the spot price of electricity.//

Yes, and lower electricity prices are supposed to be a bad thing? Spot price drops are a natural result of abundant, low-cost supply. That’s why utilities pair renewables with batteries, flexible pricing, and demand response tools. These aren’t bugs. They’re the evolving grid working as designed.

//The more wind and solar in the system, the worse the problem gets.//

If that were true, countries like Denmark, Portugal, or South Australia would be basket cases. Instead, they’re enjoying some of the lowest wholesale prices on record. When problems arise, they’re usually due to outdated infrastructure or political interference, not “too much sun.”

ttbn, your post hoc fallacy sounds reasonable until you remember that fossil fuel volatility, gas price shocks, and network costs are the real price drivers. Renewables are cheap, it’s the system around them that needs modernising.

You two keep describing an energy system in crisis - yet investment, deployment, and innovation keep accelerating.

//Despite the trillions of dollars being spent, wind and solar generate about half as much power as nuclear.//

A fact check shows this to be another blatant lie from the Usual Suspect.

2023 world electricity global production;

Fossil fuels, coal and gas: 61%
Renewables, hydro, wind, and solar: 30%
Nuclear power: 9.1%

"Australia is mis-ruled by lunatics"; ttbn, not true, the far right lunatics YOU support did not win government at the May election.

"only a fraction of the fans turning listlessly" Indy were YOU out for another day of jousting at windmills as YOU constantly do. Sorry YOU were disappointed. BTW, we have enough blow hard Old Farts on this forum, they could supply all the hot air required to keep dem windmills turning! AND with a good supply of Baked Beans, the possibilities are endless, we can hook YOU up to a gas turdine at the same time. I'll add that task to my Seniors National Service list.

Ah, our prize git is vying for #1 Price git award as per usual.
Paul1405,
you're so keen of cutting earned investment however, when it comes to welfare you're undeservingly benefitting from you remain conspicuously silent. Many, many times more money is spent on the likes of you than all old age pensions combined.
Your Peter Principle salaries amount to no benefit to the Nation whereas pensioners have already contributed for 50+ years before being able to get their hands onto their pension unlike you Peter Principle achievers. The pensioners have already beaten you hands down so far as being of benefit to the Nation is concerned.
I can already see my legacy benefitting in communities whereas yours is already making life difficult for many as your lot is only leaving victims in your wake.