The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > General Discussion > Review: 'Democracy's raw deal'

Review: 'Democracy's raw deal'

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All
In this article (Spectator 24/5/25) Dimitri Burshtein and Peter Swan suggest that Australians “have an unusual habit of celebrating public policies that the rest of the world politely declines to imitate”.

First up is compulsory superannuation, which we are told is the envy of the world, but “ no other country seems eager to replicate this innovation”. (In other countries, super is voluntary, and withdrawals are easier).

Next, we have compulsory, preferential voting. There is nothing democratic about being forced to vote - or lining up just to have your name marked off so as not to be fined.

As the authors say, compulsory voting does not encourage “democratic enthusiasm”, just bureaucratic obedience confusing activity with engagement. And, if voters don't number ALL of the people they don't want and have never heard of, their votes are informal.

The defenders of this undemocratic nonsense have never produced evidence that it is desirable or worth the trouble. It's just a Ponzi scheme for the uniparty, both members lucky to get a third of the primary vote these days.

The authors clearly state that the system is part of a “growing anti-democratic framework constructed and maintained by Labor and the Coalition (soon to team up again) for their mutual benefit”. And, they opine that duopolies in politics breed the same stagnation (now obvious in Australia) as they do in private business.

We, the electorate, are just sheep, forced to vote and pretend that “increasingly indistinguishable options” amounts to democratic freedom.

Burshtein and Swan also believe that recent hints by Albanese for four year terms is another attempt to reduce political competition. The requirement for a referendum is the only thing stopping it. In 1998, two thirds of Australians said no.

Without compulsory voting as per most other democratic countries, the parties would have to sharpen up their policy differences to attract thinking, aware Australians, who don't have to be forced to vote. Preferential voting should be scrapped or made voluntary.
Posted by ttbn, Monday, 26 May 2025 11:09:37 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Ttbn,

I agree with your post, but that is only tinkering around the edges:

The undemocratic elephant in the room is the division of Australia into "electorates", practically ensuring that the voters can only choose between Tweedledum and Tweedledee to represent them. This also gives significant more power (and bribes) to residents of marginal electorates whereas their neighbours across that invisible line, sometimes even on the other side of the same street, have practically no voting power.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Monday, 26 May 2025 10:21:36 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Now your moving ahead, congratulations.
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 27 May 2025 11:04:08 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
As Ttbn highlighted above; Democracy as dished up slop it is in Australia, is a Ponzi Scheme geared against the Democratic rights of its citizens, and steered entirely towards cementing in the two party system, which from the view at the bottom of the stinking heap, is a total rip-off of Democracy proper. Democracy as a word should be eliminated; the most ill-used word in history. A word that fits between Dictatorship and Autocracy is sorely needed. ( What would it be)?

And a very valid point you make Yuyutsu. I’m not interested enough to think of an alternative; maybe you can come up with one, which leads to the question; how do we invent a truly Democratic alternative?
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 27 May 2025 11:25:39 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
#… A word that fits between Dictatorship and Autocracy is sorely needed. ( What would it be)?…#

The epiphany! There is a beautifully fitting phrase that fits; “Deep State”. Which is of course the burial ground of Democracy!

And much to his credit, Trump is in the process of blowing up: Or is he just repainting the old room for summer. Time will tell!
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 27 May 2025 11:34:22 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
It wasnt compulsory or preferential voting that beat the lieberals.
It was their complete incompetence and idiocy.
Their denial of climate change and a nuclear fantasy.
Their admiration for trump and their parroting of right wing culture wars from the US.
Their friendliness with the likes of fat clive, giant gina and the red headed racist put people off as well.

Stop your whiney snowflake whingeing about how the voters got it wrong and how wonderful potato head was and how faulty our democracy is and just get on with your sad little life watching the sky night time murduppets for the next three years.
Posted by mikk, Tuesday, 27 May 2025 12:26:55 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Oh and compulsory voting was introduced by conservatives because union organisers where better at getting people out to vote.
Are you sure you want to get rid of it?
Posted by mikk, Tuesday, 27 May 2025 12:29:42 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The Department of Home Affairs has listed 51,000 failed asylum seekers still in Australia even after they have exhausted all legal tricks to remain here. 43,000 more are jamming up the silly tribunal system, with 28,000 more waiting to hear what's happening.

Why hasn't the Albanese socialist regime deported at least the 51,000 who have received a definite NO?

Well, the Socialists can do pretty much as they want now, after forced-to-vote morons put them back in power, and the Liberals were too busy fighting among themselves to run a decent campaign.

Perhaps Albanese will bend the system so that he can force failed asylum seekers to vote Labor.

There is also a very nasty group - the Asylum Resource Centre - pushing for rejected asylum seekers - and asylum seekers who get rejected in Australia must really, really be on the nose - to be given permanent protection. Makes sense. They are not entitled to asylum, but let them stay anyway! And, naturally, they want full access to work, Medicare, study, and welfare.

Labor for Refugees is another nasty mob, directly connected to the ALP.

Labor also has an inner advisor, law professor Mary Kenny, who is pushing for scrapping offshore processing, giving permanent visas to people already denied protection, letting children sponsor their parents, creating new ‘emergency visas’, make detention optional(!), and establishing ‘trauma informed’ counselling for people rejected!

This is what happens when morons who know nothing, and don't care, are forced to vote.

This country’s name should change from Australia to Moronalia.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 27 May 2025 3:40:28 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The informal vote increased in the 2025 election to 5.6%. That's over a million people who obviously shouldn't be forced to vote for starters. But, as those million people can't be identified, voting for everyone should be voluntary, then we would have a much better idea of how many Australians are really interested in their country and their own wellbeing. We have to do something to get a better class of politician, elected by a better class of voter who actually wants to vote and have some influence.
Posted by ttbn, Tuesday, 27 May 2025 3:59:52 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Mikk,

I cannot speak for Ttbn of course,
some of his views I share, others not (like on immigration),
but definitely so, compulsory voting has to go,
no matter who introduced it,
because it is just wrong to compel people. Period.
It is just absolutely outrageous to make it an offence for someone to stay in bed, see their family and friends, go to the beach or whatever, they have done you no harm, they are just not interested in your silly state - that must never be a crime!

Compulsory preferences too must go - it places me in a moral dilemma every time, because when I am forced to choose between two great evils, say between Hitler and Stalin and I place Hitler in the last spot and Stalin in the penultimate spot, and suppose Stalin gets elected then I become morally responsible for voting him in - YUCK!

- And this may also be the reason for the increase in informal votes, people who did want to vote and influence, but could not stomach the above situation.

I do like preferences though, but only as many as you want.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 27 May 2025 4:56:18 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Great result in the Senate vote in Tassie, Jacqui Lambie has been returned for another 6 years. AND, the bigot racists candidate from One Nation, the daughter of the Lovely Pauline, failed, well done Jacqui! We must thank compulsory voting for this result. We can't afford to see a small voter turnout elect these far right ratbags with a minimal number of votes.
Posted by Paul1405, Tuesday, 27 May 2025 6:46:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The idea that its undemocratic to force people to vote is just toooo precious. There are lots of things we are forced to do - drive on the left side; stop on red; attend the DMV for an eye-test (if you're of a certain age); etc; etc; etc.

Struth during the great WuFlu hysteria, the vast bulk of the population meekly adhered to all sorts of anti-democratic diktats.

So being required to attend a polling booth every coupla years seems rather tame in regards to infringement of theoretic rights.

The beauty of compulsory voting isn't that it forces people to vote. Its that is obviates the needs of the candidates to get them to vote. We see in the US the hoopla that parties go through to generate enthusiasm in order to get people to turn up and vote. As much as I'd love to attend a Trump style rally, I think Australia is better for not having to generate the vaudeville style electioneering that occurs in jurisdictions where compulsory voting doesn't happen.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 28 May 2025 5:07:19 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Dear Mhaze,

«drive on the left side; stop on red; attend the DMV for an eye-test (if you're of a certain age)»

These are only if you want to drive on a public road.
Assuming the road indeed belongs to the state (which is in doubt, but anyway), if you go on the road despite it belonging to others, then you either obey the owner's conditions for being there or you are trespassing.

These conditions are intended to avoid harming other road users.
You can do nobody harm if you stay in bed at your own home.

«Its that is obviates the needs of the candidates to get them to vote»

That's not a "need" - that's their perverse personal desire.
To avoid a US style hoopla, all you need is to expect political parties to abide by the same privacy and keeping-the-peace laws as expected of anyone else.
Compulsory voting for the reason you mentioned is akin to legislating "it is an offence to walk alone in the street because some thugs there may want to knife you".
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 28 May 2025 5:55:05 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Democracy as practised by the Democrats & the Woke in general is the worst form of Dictatorship !
Posted by Indyvidual, Friday, 30 May 2025 8:08:08 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy