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The Forum > General Discussion > 80 Year Anniversary

80 Year Anniversary

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Its probably worthwhile noting that 9 May represents the 80th anniversary of the surrender of the German forces to the various allies and therefore the end of the European portion of the Second World War.
(Traditionally the celebration is held on 8 May but the signing of the surrender actually happened late at night that day and therefore occurred on 9 May here and elsewhere which is why Russia commemorates it on 9 May).

The war would of course continue for several months on the Pacific front even though the final result was no longer in doubt.

The war in Europe had been the most destructive in human history with the greatest number of deaths ever seen in total numbers. Other conflicts had probably seen a greater percentage of the population killed but never in the numbers seen between 1939-45.

At the time it was hoped that the end of the war would see the end of conflict for good, but even as the war concluded, more astute statemen such as Churchill foresaw that a new, and in many ways more dangerous enemy, the USSR, was emerging and would need to be confronted.

Even though the war is considered to have been a distinct episode, it is also possible to view it as a mere continuance of the First World War and as an overall European civil war trying to come to terms with the unification of Germany (and to a lesser extent Italy) in 1870.

Most of those who fought the war are now gone but their efforts and the ramifications of the war remain with us. Its worth remembering it as appropriate.
Posted by mhaze, Wednesday, 7 May 2025 1:35:12 PM
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May 8th 1945 did not see the end of the Great Imperialist War, which had its beginnings in the 19th century, and possibly even earlier with Colonialism. "At the time it was hoped that the end of the war would see the end of conflict for good". WWII like most modern wars involving Capitalism should not be seen in isolation, viewed as some kind of abnormal occurrence, but rather wars, like WWII a particularly bloody episode in the Imperialists War , War is the normal state of affairs, a continuum of the struggle by Capitalisms for its domination of the planets resources and wealth. Post May 8th 1945, the Great Imperialist War continued in such places as Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan etc, it continues to this day in Ukraine, the Middle East etc.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 8 May 2025 6:16:55 AM
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So it was a capitalist war? Yet three of the five biggest protagonists weren't capitalist at all - Japan, Germany, USSR.

Funny how ideology blinds one to the facts, eh Paul?
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 8 May 2025 7:39:12 AM
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mhaze,

You can't see the continuum that is the Great Imperialist War, although you did say; "Even though the war is considered to have been a distinct episode, it is also possible to view it as a mere continuance of the First World War and as an overall European civil war". Its difficult to give a precise date for the beginning of The Great Imperialist War, as earlier conflicts were mostly territorial in nature, with the control of territory essential for the acquisition of wealth. The factors that are at play that precipitates a period of increased hostility are complex, the earlier Napoleonic Wars were a mix of factors, but essentially the France under Neapolitan believed they were not getting a fair share of wealth and power that was unjustly going to Britain and Russia. WWI was another escalation of the Great Imperialist War, with an extremely unsatisfactory outcome for the world (The Treaty of Versailles) Which produced Hitler, Mussolini, and earlier Stalin. The next major conflict in The Great Imperialist War is referred to as WWII.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 8 May 2025 9:29:03 AM
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Great Imperialist War? Your inner Trotsky is showing through.

If you want to look at the long game then the critical point here is the unification of Germany in 1870. Europe had enjoyed over half a century of peace and prosperity (so much for imperialism!!) but that was overthrown when a new behemoth was plunked in the middle of Europe, anti-capitalist, anti-British, and proto-fascist. WW1 was the result of trying to come to terms with the new power structures in central Europe and when it failed to resolve all issues, WW2 was inevitable.

Again, the primary participants in the war were Fascist/Socialist (Germany), Nationalist (Japan) and Communist (Russia). None of those were capitalist. The only capitalists powers to voluntarily enter the war were Britain and France. The other capitalist nation that eventually joined (the US) was attacked and forced to fight by the non-capitalist powers.

So calling it a war of capitalism is just historically ignorant. Of the powers that fought, ALL who had imperialist ambitions were anti-capitalist.

But back to reality and setting aside Paul's Trotskyite fantasies, the war was a disaster for mankind. Millions dead in Germany, Russia, China and S-E Asia, entire nations wiped out and peoples too. Things like the Mogul invasions probably killed a greater percentage of humanity at the time than died in WW2, but the results were nonetheless devastating for human advancement. Were it not for the fact that the US survived essentially untouched and decided to drag the world economy back from the brink, a new dark age was always possible. Indeed for much of Europe, which found itself under the control of the USSR after the war, a 40 year Dark Age did apply.
Posted by mhaze, Thursday, 8 May 2025 10:46:19 AM
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mhaze,

"the primary participants in the war were Fascist/Socialist (Germany), Nationalist (Japan) and Communist (Russia). None of those were capitalist." What, you don't consider Britain and its analytes, such as Canada, Australia etc, France and United States as "primary participants" and Capitalist's. Russia had avoided involvement, although the totalitarian dictator Stalin couldn't resist easy territorial gains through war with Poland, using the secret Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact as the excuse for invasion. All went well for Stalin, until Germany invaded the Soviet Union two years later.

The danger today is there will be another catastrophic escalation in The Great Imperialist War. As its economy teeters on failure, Capitalists America will attack Communist China.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 8 May 2025 3:15:52 PM
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