.

During his first presidential term, Trump exempted Australia from U.S. tariffs on steel and aluminium. Not this time around. The White House announced that the previously planned 25% tariffs on all imported steel and aluminium products into the U.S. from all countries would take effect on Wednesday, 12.03.2025.

Anthony Albanese said the decision by the Trump administration was "entirely unjustified ... and against the spirit of our two nations' enduring friendship and fundamentally at odds with the benefit of our economic partnership."

However, he said imposing reciprocal tariffs on the U.S. would only raise prices for Australian consumers and spur inflation.

That’s only partly true. It could also dissuade Australian consumers from buying US products to which we apply tariffs. Why not apply them to products we would be better off not consuming, such as soft drinks for example ?

Today, the US has unilaterally decided to impose a 25% tariff on steel and aluminium. Tomorrow, it could decide to impose similar tariffs on other products. For that reason alone, we should reciprocate in like fashion as a dissuasive measure.

It is important that the principles of fair trade be respected — especially among friendly nations.

.

If Australians were serious about inflation they wouldn't so insanely overpay bureaucrats !

Unfortunately Trump shows his true colours, as the decaying American economy and its ravenous desire to consume the worlds diminishing resources (5% of the worlds population, Americans consume 25% of its resources), Trumps action in creating a tariff war with the rest of the world shows how desperate America is.

There are conservative and right wing radical elements in Australia who support Trumps actions at the expense of Australia. If Dutton and the Noalition are elected then they will show their true colours, and roll over and allow America to do to Australia, what it has been doing to most of the world for the past 80 years.

Albo throws billions of dollars at Whyalla factories to save Australian steel jobs (and maybe one or two ALP seats). Yeh shout the usual suspects. All praise to Albo - genuflect, swoon.

Trump adopts policies to save the US steel jobs. Boo say the usual suspects - down with Trump.

Trump was elected to save the jobs of US citizens. Some seem surprised to hear that!!.

_____________________________________________________________________

It is said, and no one seems to be denying it, that when we got an exemption last time around it was based on a promise to not abuse it by significantly increasing our exports of aluminium to the US. Once Trump was out we ignored that promised and ramped up our exports under the dumb Biden kleptocracy.

And now we seem surprised that Trump doesn't want to play that game again.

Of course a better negotiator than the Albo/Rudd clown show might have been able to show genuine contrition and perhaps avoided this problem... but alas it was beyond these two.

______________________________________________________________________

"Why not apply them to products we would be better off not consuming, such as soft drinks for example ?"

In 2023, total US soft drink exports to Australia was valued at $2.3 million. Yeah, let's put a tariff on that huge market (!!). The US will be begging for mercy before ya know it. Struth.

_________________________________________________________________

" If Dutton and the Noalition are elected then they will show their true colours, and roll over "

Whereas the ALP would never roll over....oh wait - they just did.

I agree with Jacqui Lambie, and Australia should kick the American guttersnipes out of the country, close down Pine Gap, get those American warmongers out of Northern Australia. They can take that ridiculous AUKUS nonsense with them, while we tear up that ANZUS rubbish at the same time! Australia should seek to be a non-aligned nation fostering good relations with ALL other nations, particularly in the Indo/Pacific region.

Lambie said; "Albanese should boot American intelligence and military personnel out of the country to send a clear message to Donald Trump that “we’re not going to put up with [his] nonsense”. Good onya' Jacqui!

p/s Disloyal Trumpsters here, and there are many, agree mhaze, selling out Australia, they should be put on trial for treason or mutiny or whatever the appropriate Anti-Australian charge should be! I say hang them from the yardarm, although I'm against capital punishment we can hang them by their little pinkies for a week and then cut them down.

Lambie seems like a windsock to me, a few days back she was carrying on about supporting Ukraine and sending more weapons.

Hi AC,

JL is some kind of female version of the 'Mad Katter', just a degree or two more sensible, but that's no recommendation as she hails from Tasmania. Like Bob, she has been known to make a sensible comment on something or other during one of her rare but truly infrequent lucid moments. Most of the time, like Bob, she is up her tree singing 'Yankee Doodle Dany', but we should not hold that against her. Like Bob she is "good value" but unfortunately like the rest of us, insane most of the time. Don't forget she did start off as a Fat Clive convert when she first entered politics. To her credit she woke up to the complete craziness of Fat Clive and his crazy band, and resigned from the Mad Hatters tea "party".

.

Dear mhaze,

.

You wrote :

« In 2023, total US soft drink exports to Australia was valued at $2.3 million. Yeah, let's put a tariff on that huge market (!!). The US will be begging for mercy before ya know it. Struth. »
.

You did not indicate the source of your information, mhaze. Would you please do so ?

According to the IndexBox market intelligence platform, Australia’s imports of soft drinks stood at US $458 million in 2024, of which US $44 million was from the United States.

That's quite different from the AUD 2.3 million you indicate.

In value terms, according to the IndexBox market intelligence platform, sugary soft drinks represented 80% of imports.

Here is a link to the source :

http://www.indexbox.io/blog/soft-drink-australia-market-overview-2024-1/
.

As I indicated in my previous post, I suggested that we reciprocate and align with the US by placing a 25% tariff on soft drinks, as it would be better for our health if, as a result, we reduced our consumption of soft drinks.

Trump is reported to be addicted to Diet Coke, and though he became aware of the alleged health risks over a decade ago, he refused to stop drinking it.

In October 2012, he tweeted that he’s “never seen a thin person drinking Diet Coke.”

He later revealed that he received some backlash from the Coke brigade for suggesting that the sugar-free drink makes people fat, stating that the company was “not happy” with him.

“I’ll still keep drinking that garbage,’’ he reassured voters before celebrating his endorsement as Republican nominee, with a bottle of Diet Coke.

That seems to indicate that he should be quite sensitive to Australia retaliating with a 25% tariff on his favourite beverage.

Don't you think ?

.

Hi BP,

"Trump is reported to be addicted to Diet Coke, and though he became aware of the alleged health risks over a decade ago, he refused to stop drinking it."

A health risk you say, so lets send the Dangerous Doctor Donald a couple of complementary pallets so he can drink to his hearts content. BTW DDD told people to drink Pine-O-Clean diso during Covid, so Diet Coke can't be too bad.

BTW; 84% of Australians disapprove of Donald Trump and even more disapprove of Elon Musk. That does not include the sycophantic Trumpsters on this Forum, mhaze, ttbn, Indy etc.

"That seems to indicate that he should be quite sensitive to Australia retaliating with a 25% tariff on his favourite beverage. Don't you think ?"

I don't think there's very much thinking going on here.

Australia doesn't import Diet Coke or any other Coca Cola beverage for that matter. They are made here in Sydney. But what have the facts got to do with it, heh?

So putting a tariff on imported Diet Coke would be a useful as putting a tariff on imported Akubras. Struth.

What I find fascinating as how easy it is to get the sheeple to rally around the flag on issues like this. People who would reject nationalism let alone jingoism suddenly become nationalists to a man. Manipulating the population is so easy.

It wasn't all that long ago that China put all sorts of tariffs and quotes on Australian products. Hands up all those who remember the likes of Paul demanding reciprocal attacks. Me either.

But that's different because.... shut up.

Un-Australian Trumpster,

I make allowance for your increasing dementia syndrome, but I suppose at the age of 97 it is to be expected, such a pity you're a sufferer, but that's life!

"It wasn't all that long ago that China put all sorts of tariffs and quotes on Australian products. Hands up all those who remember the likes of Paul demanding reciprocal attacks. Me either."

Yes, given your mental state you wouldn't remember me criticizing Chinese tariffs on Australian goods, but I did.

The poor Un-Australian Trumpster has got it wrong again;

"The Coca-Cola Company produces concentrate, ( which is then sold to licensed Coca-Cola bottlers throughout the world. The bottlers, who hold exclusive territory contracts with the company, produce the finished product in cans and bottles from the concentrate, in combination with filtered water and sweeteners. A typical 12-US-fluid-ounce (350 ml) can contains 38 grams (1.3 oz) of sugar (usually in the form of high-fructose corn syrup in North America). The bottlers then sell, distribute, and merchandise Coca-Cola to retail stores, restaurants, and vending machines throughout the world. The Coca-Cola Company also sells concentrate for soda fountains of major restaurants and foodservice distributors."

"Coca-Cola concentrate, the core flavoring ingredient for the beverage, is produced by the Stepan Company in Maywood, New Jersey, a company authorized by the US government to import and process coca leaves."

Yep, The Coca-Cola Company very carefully guards its concentrate formula.

"I make allowance for your increasing dementia syndrome, but I suppose at the age of 97 it is to be expected, such a pity you're a sufferer, but that's life!"

very mature!!

"you wouldn't remember me criticizing Chinese tariffs on Australian goods, but I did."

I checked your posts. You never once called for reciprocal tariffs against China. We all know why.

"Yep, The Coca-Cola Company very carefully guards its concentrate formula."

A round about way for Paul to admit we don't import Diet Coke.

Un-Australian Trumpster,

"Paul demanding reciprocal attacks" No, I'm not in favour of tit-for-tat tariffs, not now, not when China engaged in such nonsense, I'm more in favour of the Jacqui Lambie approach of kicking the bastards out.

As Un-Australian as you are, you favour Dangerous Doctor Donald hurting the Australian economy, and putting Australian out of work. True?

.

Dear mhze,

.

You wrote :

« Australia doesn't import Diet Coke or any other Coca-Cola beverage for that matter. They are made here in Sydney. But what have the facts got to do with it, heh? »
.
Australia doesn’t import the bottles or the water or the sugar. The Coca-Cola plant in Sydney buys all that in Australia. It only imports the condensed syrup from Coca-Cola in Atlanta. It is an independent Australian company (Coca-Cola US is a one-third shareholder). The Australian company operates on a franchise from Coca-Cola US.

Coca-Cola US is a remarkably well-structured and well-managed company. It is an extremely effective marketing operation with a highly successful product whose recipe is a closely guarded secret. The secret is so closely guarded that only three or four bottling plants in the world can produce the concentrated syrup.

Over 200 bottling partners across 950 production facilities make up the Coca‑Cola system. However, the Coca-Cola Company does not own, manage or control most local bottling companies around the world.

If we were to place a 25% tariff on soft drinks imported to Australia, it would apply to the imported condensed syrup of Coca-Cola.

.

"If we were to place a 25% tariff on soft drinks imported to Australia, it would apply to the imported condensed syrup of Coca-Cola."

Oh good, so your plan is to increase the costs of manufacturing Coke products in Australia by increasing the costs of the syrup.

So presumably, that will increase the price of the final product which you earlier seemed to think was a good thing.

So higher price means less product sold. So less aluminium cans needed and less therefore produced.

So your plan, such as it is, is to show support for the Australian aluminium producers by forcing a reduction in the demand for their product!!

Great plan.

Trump Derangement Syndrome leads lots of people down the garden path. But be careful Banjo, you could end up as delusional as Paul who has now thrown his lot in with the harpy from Tassie. Although 'harpy' is probably unfair - she would just come out against motherhood if she thought it'd get her a bit of air-time.

That's right Un-Australian Trumpster, tit-for-tat tariffs can have unintended consequences. The American auto industry is about to find that out with YOUR MAN TRUMPS ridiculous tariffs.

I can only assume as a sycophantic Trumpster who agrees with everything the Orange Man does you agree with his tariffs destroying Australian jobs.

" tit-for-tat tariffs can have unintended consequences. "

If you know they are going to happen, then they're not really unintended, are they? You guys want to disadvantage Australian aluminium producers in a fit of childish pique.

" you agree with his tariffs destroying Australian jobs."

But but but....you're the one calling for policies that would destroy Aussie jobs.

Its not a question of my agreeing with Trump's policies as regards Australian but understanding Trump's policies as regards the USA. Again, and this seems to be very difficult for you to understand, Trump was elected to look after US worker's jobs.

Its all very well for you to let your inner nationalist fanatic loose and adopt an Australia uber alles approach. But cooler heads will prevail. Australia ripped the US off after Trump was too kind in 2019 and is now paying the price for that - FAFO.

Un-Australian Trumpster,

Lying again, "you're (paul 1405) the one calling for policies that would destroy Aussie jobs." I have said I don't agree with tit-for-tat tariffs. Unlike you who favours America over Australia, I'm a believer in free trade. Australia has a free trade agreement with US, but Trump doesn't respect that.

Tariffs on imports simply makes local industry even more inefficient, forcing up prices, and reducing demand. China is simply smacking Americas arse on a whole economic front, and the Americans can't cop the slow decline of their inefficient industries.

If nothing else, at least Trump exposes the stupid among us & most of them portray themselves as switched-on thinkers which they're clearly not since they started denouncing policies they have no clue of !
Just keep an eye on them when these policies start delivering dividends. These same people will expose their hypocrisy all over again !

.

Dear mhze,

.

You wrote :

« Oh good, so your plan is to increase the costs of manufacturing Coke products in Australia by increasing the costs of the syrup. »
.

I don’t have a plan, mhaze, I have an opinion.

My opinion is, as I explained earlier :

“Today, the US has unilaterally decided to impose a 25% tariff on steel and aluminium. Tomorrow, it could decide to impose similar tariffs on other products. For that reason alone, we should reciprocate in like fashion as a dissuasive measure. It is important that the principles of fair trade be respected — especially among friendly nations”.

I suggested that we reciprocate and align with the US by placing a 25% tariff on soft drinks, as it would be better for our health if, as a result, we reduced our consumption of soft drinks.

Especially since Trump is reported to be addicted to Diet Coke.

For that reason, he should be quite sensitive to Australia retaliating with a 25% tariff on his favourite beverage.

.

"I don’t have a plan, mhaze, I have an opinion."

Oh good. So your OPINION is that we should further punish the aluminium industry by placing a tariff on US soft drink syrup imports!!

The claim is that the US tariffs will cause job loses in the Australian aluminium industry and your OPINION is that we should protest by increasing those job loses!!

Banjo Paterson & maze,
Consider long-term vision instead of immediate gratification for a few hangers-on !

"Consider long-term vision instead of immediate gratification for a few hangers-on !"

Consider writing something that's even marginally intelligible.

.

Dear Indyvidual,

.

You wrote :

« Consider long-term vision instead of immediate gratification for a few hangers-on ! »
.

That’s an interesting suggestion, Indyvidual, or should I say challenge ?

My “long-term” view is that I see Trump deconstructing the US through a process of entropy, installing a state of increased disorder, collapse and chaos, like a tyre deflating or ice cream melting – its energy dispersing and disappearing.

I see the US, once a vibrant, dynamic, and open system, being transformed into a closed system (in thermodynamics, a region that is isolated from its surroundings by a boundary that admits no transfer of matter or energy across it).

In my view, Trump is not making America “great” again. He is making America “break” and “broke” again !

Unless – and I don’t rule it out – there’s a rude awakening that jolts people to their senses and produces a radical change of direction – at 180 degrees !

.

Trumpster,

Me thinks you're in for a double whammy, not only a 25% tariff on ya coke, but a 25% tariff on bourbon as well. There goes ya bottle of JD a day! If thy wack a 25% tariff on ya "Ice" as well, what can I say, it looks like its back to the metho and boot polish for YOU! Trumpster just asking, how many cartons of Diet Coke do you drink a day?

BTW folks, just to let you know Aldi home brand "Coke" is just as good as the American rubbish and less than half the price, tariff or no tariff.

So few people in Australia actually understand what's happening in the US with the Trump revolution. People who would normally think of themselves as supporters of the working class, turning their back on the working class because of their TDS.

Tariffs are a tool to re-balance a failed global economic system to the benefit of the workers who were abandoned by the globalists in the 1990s.

A left wing MAGA supporter explains....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjspMzkHeJ4

maze,
Short term gain leads to long term loss vs short term loss leading to low term gain ! Unions here advocate the former for workers & the latter for shareholders & other non-productive manipulators.

Indy,

"non-productive manipulators" that's YOU, with your snout firmly in the non-productive aged welfare trough. How have YOU managed to manipulate aged welfare for all these years? YOU must be a master manipulator, and here I am, paying tax to fill the trough! BTW, in a couple of days more taxpayer funded "la graisse" is coming your way! The answer is simple, save $40 billion pa, just by introducing a Seniors National Service for the languorous such as yourself. Agree?

.

Dear mhaze,

.

You wrote :

« Tariffs are a tool to re-balance a failed global economic system to the benefit of the workers who were abandoned by the globalists in the 1990s. »
.

First and foremost, Trump’s tariffs are a tax on American consumers.

The positive effects and beneficiaries are :

1. the federal government (recipient of the tax)

2. the domestic (American manufacturers), who are competitors of the imported products, and who jump on the band-wagon and increase their prices to match the increased prices of the imported products

3. increased employment in specific sectors (aggregate employment remaining unaffected when the country is already near full employment, i.e., unemployment = 4%).

The current unemployment rate in the US is 4.1%.

There are also some antagonistic effects of Trump's tariffs :

Vietnam is expected to be a major beneficiary of Trump’s China tariffs. Some companies have already transferred manufacturing to Vietnam during the previous Trump Administration. Apple, for instance, moved AirPods manufacturing from China to Vietnam in May 2020.

American automobile manufacturers import parts from Canada and Mexico subject to Trump’s tariffs.

Canada is the largest exporter of meat to the U.S. It also supplies 20% of the oil and petrol.

Inflation will increase affecting lower-income Americans more severely than others, particularly those whom you mention : “the workers who were abandoned by the globalists in the 1990s”.

.

Hi Banjo,

Good analysis of the effects of tariffs, the result for Americans (indirect effects for Australia) will be a rise in inflation, followed by a slowdown in the economy as consumer demand diminishes, leading to rising unemployment and reduced living standards. The loyal Trumpster mhaze, either doesn't have the foggiest understanding of economics, which he has demonstrated many times, or he is such a loyal Trumpster, that he believes the Orange Man can do or say no wrong, in fact just as ardent Nazi's believed Hitler was a genius, mhaze believes Trump is a genius!

Banjo,

What you say is correct... but only in a theoretic world where there is complete free trade and no international players game the system.

But we don't live in a theoretic world. Some of us live in the real world. And in the real world, some nations game the system to their advantage and to the disadvantage of others. Equally in the real world some sections of society use the system to advantage themselves and disadvantage their neighbours.

Whilst it is true that, in your theoretic world, inflation may rise due to the tariffs, it is also true that many of those previously disadvantaged by a fanatical adherence to globalist principles, will be advantaged. If you are a US steel worker at the moment, the potential increase in inflation is a minor concern compared to the hope that jobs previously exported to countries paying slave wages will be re-imported to your advantage.

Equally, if you a US farm worker you are now living in hope that Trump will follow through on his intention to match the many 100%+ tariffs that nations like Canada and the EU impose on your output.

You carry on like the funds from tariffs disappear into the ether. But they don't. Instead they become part of the government's revenue stream where they form the basis of future tax cuts or reduce the Federal Deficit and therefore interest rates.

Its easy in the theoretic world to think one step ahead and assume that's the end of the tale. In the real world, one changed policy (eg tariffs) leads to a multitude of unquantifiable effects. Its about understanding the complexity of the national economy.

Governments for millennia heavily relied on funding themselves by taxing trade ie tariffs. The last 100 years where governments learned to tax incomes are the exception not the rule. And that rule change has been to the significant disadvantage of the working class.

Again its interesting that those, such as yourself, who would claim to be on the side of the working class are opposed to a policy that is very much pro-worker.

.

Dear mhaze,

.

You wrote :

« If you are a US steel worker at the moment, the potential increase in inflation is a minor concern compared to the hope that jobs previously exported to countries paying slave wages will be re-imported to your advantage. »
.

The United States is the fourth-largest producer of raw steel in the world, behind China, India and Japan.

In 2024, only 13% of steel use was from imported steel. The main suppliers of those 13% were Canada, Brazil, Mexico, South Korea and Vietnam.

As regards aluminium, 47% of U.S. consumption was from imports, the main suppliers of those 47% being Canada, United Arab Emirates, China, South Korea and Bahrain.

Canada alone supplied roughly 58% of the total U.S. aluminium imports in 2024. Canada was also the top supplier of the US steel imports – and Canada is not a “country paying slave wages” as you seem to suggest.

Nevertheless, steel and aluminium producers in the United States could stand to benefit from Trump’s 25% tariffs -- data shows that U.S. steel and aluminium production increased in 2018 and 2019 when tariffs on those products were in effect during Trump’s first presidency. However, there is little chance of that occurring given that adding new production capacity to offset higher-priced imports, particularly steel production, would take massive investments and years of infrastructure and talent development.

There is also a risk of foreign retaliatory tariffs, as occurred the last time steel and aluminium tariffs were put in place. That could once again pose a risk to other sectors of the U.S. economy.

.

Banjo,

Thanks for the stats but they were already known. Trump is seeking to rebuild the US manufacturing sector and steel/aluminium etc are integral to that. He's also seeking to make the US economically self-sufficient and steel production is integral to that as well.

"However, there is little chance of that occurring given that adding new production capacity to offset higher-priced imports, particularly steel production, would take massive investments and years of infrastructure and talent development."

You're assuming that the US doesn't have excess capacity at the moment. That's incorrect. They already have the production capacity in place and will be able to quickly gear up to take advantage of the new opportunities. The Trump team wouldn't have gone down this path if that wasn't the case.

A couple of nights ago, some Dill on Q&A was waffling on about Australia's 42 % export rate.
No-one questioned him what these export consist of. What manufacturing is being exported & earns dividends for Australia ?
Anyone has a couple of such exports to enlighten us on ? And, no I don't mean Iron ore & Bauxite. Real manufactured here products !

.

Dear Indyvidual,

.

You wrote :

« A couple of nights ago, some Dill on Q&A was waffling on about Australia's 42 % export rate »
.

The latest available stats are for the year 2022. Trade as a whole was equivalent to 45.75% of Australian GDP.

Of that figure, exports of goods and services counted for 25.81% of GDP and imports of goods and services counted for 19.94% of GDP .

Trade balance : Exports exceeded imports by 5.87% of GDP in 2022.

Here is the source :

http://wits.worldbank.org/CountryProfile/en/AUS

Overview :

In 2023, Australia was the number 13 economy in the world in terms of GDP (current US$), the number 20 in total exports, the number 22 in total imports, the number 16 economy in terms of GDP per capita (current US$) and the number 75 most complex economy according to the Economic Complexity Index (ECI) .

Exports :

The top exports of Australia are Iron Ore ($85.4B), Coal Briquettes ($71.7B), Petroleum Gas ($47.8B), Gold ($29B), and Other Mineral ($12.1B), exporting mostly to China ($137B), Japan ($59B), South Korea ($20.9B), India ($19.9B), and Chinese Taipei ($17.4B).

In 2023, Australia was the world's biggest exporter of Iron Ore ($85.4B), Coal Briquettes ($71.7B), Other Mineral ($12.1B), Aluminium Oxide ($5.29B), and Sheep and Goat Meat ($3.26B)

Imports :

The top imports of Australia are Refined Petroleum ($35.3B), Cars ($24.8B), Delivery Trucks ($11.3B), Broadcasting Equipment ($8.58B), and Computers ($6.38B), importing mostly from China ($72.3B), United States ($31.9B), South Korea ($18.1B), Japan ($17.7B), and Thailand ($13.5B).

In 2023, Australia was the world's biggest importer of Sodium or Potassium Peroxides ($1.14B)

Here is the source :

http://oec.world/en/profile/country/aus

.

Indy,

You exhibit such a poor understanding of Australia's trade position, but that's par for the course with you on most subjects, a lack of understanding. Post war Australia under 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies leadership become a country of lost opportunity. Instead of vigorously pursuing a strong manufacturing sector with exports of Australian produced goods, particularly to niche markets, Menzies was content to simply allow foreign investors to plunder the domestic market with tariff protected local production, example the Australian car industry. The result of this short sighted easy conservative approach was the eventual loss of any possibility of a strong manufacturing base. Today Australia is totally reliant on the export of raw materials to maintain our standard of living.

You should thank China for buying our raw materials, if they didn't, your Aged Welfare payments would cease immediately.

Paul continues to regurgitate left wing talking points about the economic history of Australia's manufacturing industry. Face it, bringing up the false assertions about 'pig iron Bob' wasn't a good start, was it?

Paul asserts that manufacturing under the post-war Menzies government was somehow a failure. But in fact in 1960 manufacturing accounted for 25% of the Australian economy but was down to 12% by 2000. There were lots of reasons for that, not least the insane policies of the ALP and particular Whitlam's moronic tariff cuts of 1973.

Manufacturing in Australia will always face significant headwinds not least because of the high dollar resultant from the exports of non-manufactured goods - ore and food. Those exports keep the dollar high and therefore make manufacturing in Australia uncompetitive.

If we want a large manufacturing industry in Australia (and its not clear why we would) it would require government support to overcome the inherent uncompetitiveness of the high dollar. We could also adopt policies to reduce energy costs which are a major impediment to modern manufacturing processes.

But blaming the current poor state of manufacturing on policies of the 1960s is just plain inane

Trumpster,

Did I insult your sensibilities by slighting the great
demiurge of yours 'Pig Iron' Bob, tut-tut!

You say; "Paul asserts that manufacturing under the post-war Menzies government was somehow a failure. But in fact in 1960 manufacturing accounted for 25% of the Australian economy but was down to 12% by 2000." In the short term, a short 10 to 15 years post war period, with massive protection, what was mostly foreign manufacturing of relatively low tech consumer items in Australia appeared to be a success, 25% Trumpster tells us, but that was illusionary and proved to be unsustainable in the long term. Australian manufacturing was in free fall long before Tumpsters Great Satan Gough came to power, oh how evil was Gough!

Economic simpletons like Trumpster, believe Australia could have a fantastic "Toaster Industry" simply by placing a 10,000% tariff on all imported toasters, forcing up their retail price from $20 to$2000 each. At the same time giving terrific incentives, tax credits, investment allowances etc etc to some "friendly" foreign toaster maker to set up a toaster factory in Australia manufacturing "Aussie" made toasters! Employing 10 people, creating jobs, jobs, jobs. In a short while the 27 million foreign made toasters are cactus, every one could once afford a toaster, would be replaced with 100 locally made toasters, all owned by Gina Rhinoceros, the only person rich enough to afford a toaster, which retail for $1500 each, and totally wiping out the foreign toaster sales. I could go on but anyone with half a brain (that does not include Trumpster) knows where it would all lead to, Australians with no jobs, they all once worked in the shops selling toasters, and no bread to eat, let alone BURNT TOAST!

Blaming Menzies for what the Unions ruined is just plain & simply stupidity seasoned with idiocy !

I notice that both Walmart and Costco are trying to make Chinese suppliers foot the cost of Trumps tariffs, also interesting is that the Walton family that owns Walmart is Christian, but has ties to and donates to Orthodox Jewish causes which are involved in Yeshiva schools that probably help to create more settlers in Israel which assist in he displacement of Palestinians, and in turn lobby for more government funding.
Also Costco was founded by a Jewish person.

Seems they've got no problem with Trump sending 2000 pound bombs to kill Palestinian women and kids but are displeased with the loss of profits due to his tariffs...

- Is it wrong to say it if its a fact?

Paul
"Did I insult your sensibilities by slighting the great
demiurge of yours 'Pig Iron' Bob, tut-tut!"

No you assaulted my desire for the truth. But why would I expect the truth from Paul when he just regurgitates ALP propaganda.

"Australian manufacturing was in free fall long before Tumpsters Great Satan Gough came to power"

I'd ask him for evidence of this but Paul struggles with concepts like 'evidence'. So I'll just point out that the numbers show what the said to be rubbish. Paul understands rubbish much better than evidence since he deals with it every day.

"[mhaze] believe Australia could have a fantastic "Toaster Industry".

Well if you read what I wrote (or more exactly , if you were cogitatively capable of understanding what I wrote, you see that I don't want a toaster industry. Australia digs up stuff and grows stuff which we sell. That makes it hard to also make stuff because of the exchange rate dilemma I mentioned earlier. We have a manufacturing industry but only in niche markets. We could have a bigger one in value adding to the things we dig up and grow (eg tinned food) but our industrial policy caused by government intervention inhibits that.

Paul understands all this in the same way as my budgie does, but is very strident in his ignorance. Its all rather comical.

______________________________________________________________

"- Is it wrong to say it if its a fact?"

No it'd wouldn't be wrong to say it if its a fact. But alas, sometimes facts are an alien concept to some

You act as though I make things up mhaze
*Please note: We don't have this thing called 'the internet'

Costco follows Walmart's lead on tariffs
http://qz.com/costco-chinese-suppliers-trump-tariffs-walmart-retail-1851770987
"With rising import costs due to tariffs, Costco along with major U.S. retailers like Walmart – is trying to get suppliers to absorb some of the hit. This has placed additional pressure on Chinese exporters, who are already grappling with years of tariffs and razor-thin margins."

Schools Agenda Links Walton Family and Orthodox Jewish Group
http://www.philanthropy.com/article/schools-agenda-links-walton-family-and-orthodox-jewish-group/
"The Arkansas-based Walton Family Foundation has given or pledged $3.1-million to Agudath Israel since 2008, making it the Jewish organization’s biggest single donor. Agudah,"

US Orthodox group launches campaign against New York Times yeshiva coverage
http://www.timesofisrael.com/us-orthodox-group-launches-campaign-against-new-york-times-yeshiva-coverage/
"Agudath Israel of America’s ‘Know Us’ initiative aims to push back against critical series of articles on Jewish schools, using billboards, white paper report, online outreach"

Who are Israeli settlers, and why do they live on Palestinian lands?
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/6/who-are-israeli-settlers-and-why-do-they-live-on-palestinian-lands
"The argument is that settlements act as a buffer for Israel’s national security as they restrict the movement of Palestinians and undermine the viability of a Palestinian state. However, some on the Israeli left argue that the settlement expansion hurts the two-state solution and thereby Israel’s own prospects for peace."

Settler terrorism: An American problem
http://www.brookings.edu/articles/settler-terrorism-an-american-problem/
"American Jews have certainly attacked Palestinians in the past. Baruch Goldstein, the physician that killed 29 Palestinians and wounded 125 in the 1994 Hebron massacre, was born and raised in Brooklyn."

How American citizens are leading rise of ‘settler violence’ on Palestinian lands
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/15/biden-extremist-jewish-settlers-travel-ban-loophole
Many of the estimated 60,000 Americans living in the West Bank outside of occupied East Jerusalem moved to settlements for the lifestyle and have little to do with the Palestinians on whose land they live. But a core of ideologically driven US citizens were at the forefront of building religious settlements on land expropriated from Palestinians while others have led the rise of what has been described as “settler terrorism”.

Jeff Brotman, Costco founder, dies aged 74
http://www.timesofisrael.com/jeff-brotman-costco-founder-dies-aged-74/
"Jewish philanthropist said he learned values of helping disadvantaged, encouraging diversity, from his parents, rabbi"

The only mistake I made was failing to remove the word 'don't' in my prior comment.
Should've read - >>We have this thing called 'the internet'<<

Dear Critic,

«...has ties to and donates to Orthodox Jewish causes which are involved in Yeshiva schools that probably help to create more settlers in Israel which assist in he displacement of Palestinians»

FYI, "Yeshivah" literally means "sitting" - a place where Jews sit and study Torah, a generic name for Torah colleges.

Different streams of Judaism have their own Yeshivas, but you specifically mentioned Agudath Yisrael, which is the umbrella organisation of traditional Jewish Ultra-Orthodoxy, and is completely different to the "national religious" Jews who are the trouble-makers behind the settlers and displacers, etc.

In fact, most members of Agudath Yisrael originally opposed the creation of the state of Israel, and some of them still do not recognise it. They are certainly not interested in wars, expansion and ethnic-cleansing like their "national religious" counterparts.

Sadly so, Agudath Yisrael is now in coalition with Netanyahu, but that is only because the Israeli centre parties in opposition, hate them and foolishly want to conscript their boys who are devoted Torah students. Agudath Yisrael therefore took refuge with Netanyahu even while they do not share his political outlook, only in order to save their children. They are the most moderate within that bloody coalition and push as much they can within the Israeli government for hostage release and ending the war.

Members of Agudath Yisrael are anything but settlers and their Yeshivas are pretty crowded and take very little space.

The Israeli branch of Agudath Yisrael presently needs further emergency donations because Israel's high court decreed that their scholar boys may no longer be exempt from the IDF, which they ordered to call them up ASAP; also that childcare for children of scholar fathers who abscond from the IDF (that's the vast majority of Agudath Yisrael) should no longer be subsidised (nor are these fathers legally allowed to work before they complete a military service).

Perhaps you too can fork some for these heroes that refuse to serve in the IDF, even while some of them are being arrested, they who keep calling out loud: "we shall rather die than be conscripted"!?

If one wants to delve into the complex thinking of The Trumpster mhaze, then one should listen carefully to the chirpings of The Trumpster's budgie Donald. After all it is through the channeling of Donald (The Budgie) that The Trumpster gains all his in depth knowledge of Donald (The Orange Man). Is that not so Trumpster?

Oh well maybe I have got it all wrong Yuyutsu,
It was my understanding that through the Yeshiva schools Orthodox Jews particularly from New York sometimes / often end up making aliyah to Israel and end up becoming the settlers spoken about in the articles above, hence the 'American citizens are leading rise of settler violence on Palestinian lands'.

I'm glad for those who do not wish to make war on the Palestinians, however I'm not too keen on the Jewish religion either.
Do all Orthodox Jews study both the Torah and the Talmud?

So I guess my criticism here is probably 'a little from column a and a little from column b'

Didn't really mean to go into it all, my original comment was simply that Walmart and Costco have a relationship with Jews and were trying to pass Trumps tariffs onto the Chinese, which I kind of think is wrong, but I'm not necessarily opposed to haggling for a good deal, if one can get one.
(But thanks for the info)

I bet Walmart and Costco's customers don't get to haggle though, it'd be like Kmart, that's the price, take it leave it.

I wonder about those tariffs now, and maybe my understanding here is also wrong.
Who pays the tariffs, the exporter (China) or the importer (Walmart and Costco) who pass it onto the consumer with price increases?

Dear Critic,

«It was my understanding that through the Yeshiva schools Orthodox Jews particularly from New York sometimes / often end up making aliyah to Israel and end up becoming the settlers spoken about in the articles above»

Quite possible, because "Yeshivah" is a generic term, but in that case it would not be an ultra-orthodox or Agudath-Yisrael Yeshivah. National-religious Jews have their own Yeshivas.

«Do all Orthodox Jews study both the Torah and the Talmud?»

Orthodox Jews believe that the Talmud IS the bulk of the Torah.
According to them, only a small portion of the Torah was physically written down by Moses, to become the first five books of the Bible, while the rest was passed orally from generation to generation until it was revealed in the Mishnah, then in the Talmud.

More information in here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Torah

I am not familiar with the Walmart case, but tariffs in general are paid by importers to their government, then they pass on that cost to the consumers.

I don't know if people have noticed that over recent weeks there appears to be a new & very subtle anti German agenda creeping into Facebook & similar Social network sites. Disguised as humour & mainly in American accents, Germans are portrayed as nothing short of rude.
Keep an eye open for these "funnies" !