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The Forum > General Discussion > Getting beyond grief stricken countries

Getting beyond grief stricken countries

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James, Winnie was Nelson Mandela’s wife until he split with her when it became necessary to create a façade of respectability to ascend to the world stage. Before that, they were both in the thick of it. His ANC was and is heavily influenced by the SACP, under funding from the FSU and China. Also, the ANC and ZANU(PF) are hand in hand.
Glad you support our own farmers.

Alanpoi, whether or not we like their politics, we must support our farmers. Do you want to see primary industry die out here so that we have to import all of our food? Can we afford that?
Posted by Clark Kent, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:12:16 PM
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Also, Alanpoi, “why is the west selling arms to countries that can't feed, clothe, house and educate their people” goes along with the same old “blame the west strategy” while ignoring (conveniently) the other culprits.

Since the 1950’s, the Soviet Union and Red China were pumping funds and armaments into southern and central Africa. The new open Russia – the FSU still has a finger in the pie. Mugabe still openly deals with them. Mandela and now Mbeki are a bit more covert about it – but they still take their orders from the SACP.

Most of Africa’s problems have been caused by the Reds.
Posted by Clark Kent, Monday, 24 September 2007 10:33:01 PM
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"These people can’t just leave as there are severe restrictions to what they could take with them, leaving most of their possessions behind."

Clark, yes they can leave. yes this means that they have to start again, but in many cases its a choice between starting again or being dead. I have many friends, colleagues and clients that were Zimbabwean (or Rhodesian, some having left that long ago), and have been involved to some degree with assisted migration for some of these people (although have not played a large role in this). I know first hand how they struggle to fit into a new country with a new history and adapt to a new culture. I might add that not all of these are white either, or farmers. Those that arent white but have migrated to Australia anyway have been just as quick to become citizens of this country and settle in regional parts of Australia (unlike many other immigrants). Sad that these people are forced to leave everything behind and start afresh, but they bring a good talent pool to this country and have a great sense of community spirit that they bring with them - I havent come across one that isnt an asset to this country.
Posted by Country Gal, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 10:16:10 AM
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Country Gal,
You made a comment about Botswana not having the same problems as Zimbabwe and South Africa, the reason being, Britain still plays a part in Botswana's government, thats why.

The Southern parts of Botswana, along it's borders, are becoming the same as Zimbabwe, this property "staking" lark, is like a cancer, just because some "bushman" some 150 years ago, took a p*ss behind a rock, bonked like a rabbit, raised a family and laid claim to that piece of land. Today, not having any relation to that particular bushman, the people say they want their land back.

If the whites leave South Africa, it's another Zimbabwe in the making, in fact, as usual..it's too damn late!
Posted by SPANKY, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 3:06:48 PM
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Overpopulation will cause war, famine etc to return, no matter how much you spend. The trick is to strike a balance between spending on emergency relief and on long term goals like building a sustainable society. Part of the problem is some conservative (often religious) groups oppose spending government funds on birth control and family planning. This contributes to the degradation of women to medieval roles. We need to fund education for both boys and girls, universal suffrage, women's rights and family planning. Where there are too many obstacles to this, we need to cut our losses and focus on those regions where we can make a lasting contribution and where the meagre funds available aren't swallowed in a bottomless pit of misery.

http://www.ozpolitic.com/articles/population-sustainability.html
Posted by freediver, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 5:28:13 PM
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Spanky, unfortunately its the settlers forebears taking land by force and retaining most of the profits from it that has caused so much problem. Similar issues in Australia, although the balance of power is different here as the indigenous population is in the vast minority rather than the vast majority, and hence arent in the same position to force change. Change is not necessarily a bad thing, but such radical change cant happen in even as short a time as a century, let alone a decade, without causing more massive upheaval, denial of rights and wars (either just or unjust, probably depending on what side of the fence you are sitting on). That's why its so complex - how to pass some wealth or at least pass opportunity to amass wealth to the poor minions, whilst retaining a stable economic base, and not allowing those new to power to have a heady rush from it. I dont have any easy answers.
Posted by Country Gal, Tuesday, 25 September 2007 5:41:00 PM
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