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The Forum > General Discussion > TIME FOR THE BAD GUYS ?

TIME FOR THE BAD GUYS ?

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We are about to witness a historic moment when, for the first time in history a convicted criminal, Donald John Trump, is to be sworn in as president of the United States. Right now, he’s busy choosing the people he wants to govern with, prioritizing loyalty over qualifications and all other considerations. They have to be confirmed by the Senate and, as we have seen during the ongoing “beauty parade”, there are quite a number of “bad guys” like Trump among them.

But Trump is not the only national leader to be elected following a criminal conviction. Our Australian prime minister during the Second World War, John Curtin, was convicted to three months imprisonment, and jailed for three days in 1916 for failing to enlist for conscription, and elected prime minister in 1941. He declared war on the Japanese the day after they attacked Pearl Harbour and died in 1945, just three months after Roosevelt died.

Though Curtin was the first prime minister of Australia to be convicted of an offence he is nevertheless considered to have been one of our best prime ministers.

So, could it be that whenever there is a major world crisis brewing and the going gets tough, maybe it’s time to bring in the bad guys to sort it out ?

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Thursday, 16 January 2025 9:55:36 AM
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All politicians are criminals anyway: they are there to interfere with and control the lives of innocent ordinary people who never consented in the first place to have anything to do with their criminal organisation - the state.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 16 January 2025 2:08:35 PM
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Dear Banjo,

Trump is unpredictable and unstable.

He just may add to world conflict and uncertainty.
And hand his rivals victories.

A few things are a worry. A possible "deal" with Putin.
Giving Israel a blank cheque. And so much more. Does he really
mean what he says?

History is full of individuals who were charged but not all
served sentences in prison.

I would like to see Trump simply removed from office.

But I doubt that will happen any time soon.

Just as I doubt Netanyahu will ever be convicted. Not as long
as Trump is US President.

We really don't need or want a leader like
Trump having his hand on the
nuclear button.

Scary thought.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 16 January 2025 3:15:38 PM
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Hi Yuyutsu,

"All politicians are criminals" rather cynical, obviously you don't know many politicians, from all shades of politics. Sat in an MP's office for an hour today, didn't find her to be a "criminal" as you put, rather helpful actually. BTW the record shows your religious clergy are far more likely to be criminals than are polys. Jesus Christ was also a convicted criminal.

Hi Banjo,

There is a slight difference between standing up for a cause, and have your convictions sending you to jail (Curtain), compared to paying a prostitute hush money to keep her legs open and her trap shut (Trump).

BTW; There was no conscription in Australia during WWI. From memory there were 2 referendums held, and conscription was defeated both times. Curtain went to jail for failing to report to an army camp for compulsory military training, which had been introduced in 1911, something the Hughes government tried as a way around not being able to conscript young men. BTW 'Pig Iron' Bob Menzies although a supporter of the war, like 'Little Johnny' Howard (Vietnam War) years later failed to enlist. These old conservatives believe in fighting wars, but not them, others can do that.
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 16 January 2025 7:54:04 PM
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Foxy said- "We really don't need or want a leader like Trump having his hand on the nuclear button."

A- If Foxy said good morning I'd check outside first. We need someone like Trump on the button when CCP Xi is in charge of aggressive expansionist China, and taking pot shots at Australian military assets.

I suppose Foxy likes Xi and the whole standup bunch of Maoist's. Apparently Mao murdered sixty million people and had a virgin every night.

Someone said "when you kill in the name of the king, don't think of who you killed, but what you allowed to live".

I suppose Foxy wants to kill Trump, so that Mao and his principles, of murder and rape of young girls, can live.

Does Foxy support the UK Southport 'actor' and Pedo-Rape Factories too?

If Foxy supports China taking pot shots at the Australian military should we really allow her to remain in Australia?
Posted by Canem Malum, Thursday, 16 January 2025 9:05:43 PM
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Dear Paul,

«"All politicians are criminals" rather cynical, obviously you don't know many politicians, from all shades of politics.»

True. I also don't personally know many robbers, rapists, arsonists or murderers. Coming to think about it, not even one!

«Sat in an MP's office for an hour today, didn't find her to be a "criminal" as you put, rather helpful actually.»

Even criminals have a code of conduct among themselves.

Criminals they are, if nothing else then for the simple fact that they run an organisation that forces itself on everyone, whether or not they agreed to have anything to do with them. Now among those who willingly accept their organisation, things can indeed get quite cosy.

«BTW the record shows your religious clergy are far more likely to be criminals than are polys.»

1) I am not a Christian.
2) Christianity is not a religion and clergy are not necessarily religious.
3) The probability of a politician to be a criminal is 100%. Can the probability of clergy being criminals be any higher?

«Jesus Christ was also a convicted criminal.»

I didn't know him personally to be able to tell - did you?

Now if the Biblical account is correct, then Jesus was convicted of something he did not do (allegedly claiming to be the king of the Jews), only because he refused to defend himself in the court of a criminal organisation (in his specific case, the Roman empire).
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 16 January 2025 9:22:02 PM
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Australian identity is not a fixed point in the heavens.
but a speeding comet that blazes brightly and flies around
the night sky.

There was a time when to be Australian was to be English,
only sunburnt. There was a time when to be Australian was
to be a dangerous criminal. It's
amazing that today barely anyone remembers what life was like
back then.

The national identity has changed in our own lifetime.
Australia is a process of revelation of unveiling to ourselves
and the world the surprising facts about ourselves that
nobody knew.

There's never been a more exciting time to be Australian ...
than right now.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 16 January 2025 9:41:08 PM
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Hi Yuyutsu,

"Now if the Biblical account is correct, then Jesus was convicted of something he did not do (allegedly claiming to be the king of the Jews)"
BTW 'The Mob' didn't think Al Capone was a criminals.

The Biblical account is biased, written by Christs supporters. hardly proof of innocence. The law of the land was Pontius Pilate, and he did give Christ a hearing, as applicable to the times, and on the evidence Pilate found Christ guilty of a crime that warranted crucifixion. Obviously Christ was a serious transgressor, they nailed him up on a cross until he was dead, can't get more serious than that. P/S Pilate could have given Jesus a fine of say one denari with 30 days to pay, but no, it was more serious than that, so crucifixion's it was. And as we know the Romans were a caring libertarian lot, they really didn't like crucifying people, they much preferred probation as a form of punishment to crucifixion. but when ya gotta hang, ya gotta hang!
Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 16 January 2025 9:49:23 PM
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Dear Banjo,

Time for the bad guys?

Trump's fondness for Putin makes any "deal" dangerous
for Europe and the NATO alliance. It would be naive
to think that things would go well for Kyiv.

Also Trump's admiration for strong leaders like the
North Korean is also concerning. Then there's China
circling in our region.

As I wrote earlier Trump is unpredictable and what
he'll do next nobody knows. The allies of the US
must ready themselves to deal with all of these
issues. According to CNN and other US sources - the
allies should possibly try a different focus, means,
and priorities.

It's going to be a bumpy ride.
Nothing can be taken for granted.
We don't know Trump's foreign policy.
Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 16 January 2025 10:10:29 PM
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Dear Foxy,

«The national identity has changed in our own lifetime.»

Identities can never change:
Can you imagine that yesterday it was 2+2=3 and tomorrow it will be 2+2=5?

---

Dear Paul,

«The Biblical account is biased, written by Christs supporters.»

Fair enough, but in that case we cannot even tell whether Jesus Christ ever existed, let alone convicted.

I wonder whether you understand the word 'if':

IF the Biblical account is correct, THEN Jesus was convicted of something he did not do.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Thursday, 16 January 2025 11:41:47 PM
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Hi Yuyutsu,

I accept the evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, but his true story may well have been embellished by those who came after, particularly Saul Of Tarus (St Paul). Christ was more than likely a dissident Jewish Pharisee during the Second Temple period. A fundamentalist Jew, like his brother James (later assassinated), Christ was demanding strict adherence to Jewish law and custom. He could not have possibly avoided the political intrigue of the time, and would have been very much Anti-Rome, which concerned both the established Jewish order led by the High Priest Caiaphas and the client king Herod Antipas, plus the Romans themselves. Roman concern grew to the point where the Roman Governor Pontius Pilate found it necessary to act against the Jewish dissidents (not for the first time). The fact Pilate found it necessary to "interview" Christ before executing him, shows that he was of some standing within the Jewish community, and seen as a danger to Roman authority.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 January 2025 4:44:24 AM
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Dear Paul,

Speaking historically, nothing in the Bible can be trusted, so your guess of what happened is as good as mine. You choose to accept the "evidence" that Jesus Christ existed while others do not, everything is possible.

My own speculation is:

1) Jesus Christ existed.
2) He was a true spiritual master, who knew God intimately.
3) He didn't personally care about Judaism, yet he had to work with difficult Judean students who were brainwashed by the Rabbis and in order to retain them and have them listen to him, he had to walk on eggshells and tell them that he is not asking them to break Jewish law.
4) He had no ambition to be "King of the Jews" or a Messiah, nor resented the Romans and their ruler ("Give unto Caesar what is his"), yet he could not tell so plainly to his students, who like most Judeans of the time hated the Romans, and fantasised him to be the Messiah, so he just answered them with "You said it".
5) The Pharisees hated Jesus and wanted him dead because he ruined their business by overturning the trading tables at the temple's entrance, chasing away the merchants, who were allowed to be there because they paid a portion of their profits to the Pharisee leaders.
6) Pontius had nothing against Jesus and understood well that Jesus was never a threat to Rome, but he needed to keep the peace in his province and appease the Judean leaders who wanted Jesus dead.
7) Jesus did not defend himself because that would have encouraged his students to interpret his message materialistically and thus miss all his spiritual teachings. He went to the cross happily so that those who had eyes to see will understand his true message correctly.

(please note that I use the term "Judean" since Jews as we know them today did not yet exist at the time and for about another 800 years after)
Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 17 January 2025 6:12:07 AM
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Good or bad. Trump is the only hope left for not just America, but the entire West, particularly Australia, which has had nothing but very bad politicians since John Howard.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 17 January 2025 7:22:37 AM
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Australians are in no position to judge the character of Donald Trump or anyone else, when they keep voting for the rubbish in Canberra as they do.

Australian police, the media and our MPs are terrified of the pro-Palestinian protesters. The police and politicians are cowards, and the media ignores the weekly anti-Semitic ranting on our streets.

We have 3 flags, representing how divided we are. No other country in the world has more than one official flag.

The ignorant judges of other people and countries, jabbering about Australia being the “best country in the world” wouldn't know if their arses were on fire.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 17 January 2025 7:32:22 AM
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Hi Again Yuyutsu,

Speculation about the origins of Christianity is interesting. In early writings "Christians" are not referred to as such, but rather called disciples and their practices and beliefs were that of Orthodox Jews. For example the concept of the "Resurrection Of Christ" didn't gain traction until about 70AD, and it divided devotees. James and his followers believed Christ had been executed by the Romans as a martyr, they certainly did not believe he had risen from the dead, or that he was "God". St Paul produced his Epistles (writings) around 48AD to 64AD, which radicalized Christian beliefs completely, and changed its direction to a point where it eventually become universally acceptable, particularly to the Roman establishment. The old school of Christian belief still exists today, read up on Messianic Jews.
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 January 2025 7:53:33 AM
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Talking about flags?

The UK has many flags - including the Union Jack, the
Royal Standard, and of course the flags of individual
countries and regions.

There's also flags of the British armed forces, and flags
of the Commonwealth, the United Nations and other
international organisations.

Most countries have more than one flag.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 17 January 2025 10:24:29 AM
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.

There is no doubt whatsoever that Donald Trump is, or should I say has become a populist politician, which means that he alone knows what the people want, and he is the final judge of people’s rights because he and he alone represents the people.

That may seem to be democracy to some people, but it is not. Democracy is collective self-determination which means that we don’t let our political decisions be made by a king or president or whatever, we make them collectively ourselves, we together decide what laws we should abide by. That is the promise of democracy : rule by the people for the people.

Democracy also implies that we as individuals have certain rights and freedoms. We don’t just let the majority, the president, or the prime minister decide whatever they want, and tell us what we can think, do, believe, or say. In a liberal democracy, we enjoy a realm of freedom unimpeded by the government in which we are allowed to determine ourselves what we think, do, believe, or say.

To protect those rights and freedoms, we don’t just have legislation we also have a set of independent institutions to enforce the rule of law, because if we did not, a president or prime minister who did not like what we think, do, believe or say, could have us jailed with impunity.

With Donald Trump as president, the US is heading for a populist form of government. The key members of his future cabinet and administration are being chosen for their loyalty to Donal Trump, not for their competence or qualifications. They are then submitted to a gruelling cross-examination ceremony by the Senate before being admitted into the Trump team.

It reminds me of the recruiting ceremony of the Cosa Nostra. Hopefully, that’s where the similitude ends.

It is, however, a fact that populism inevitably leads to a dictatorship, which is why so many of the elite rich and powerful in the US are reneging on their formerly declared values and embracing those of Donald Trump.

Don’t hold your breath !

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Friday, 17 January 2025 11:08:17 AM
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Dear Banjo,

Trust is everything in politics. We need leaders we
can trust. Leaders who put our interests first ahead
of their own. Leaders whose actions matter more than
what they say. Who we can judge by their actions.
Who are out to make a difference - not a career and
grab for power.

Can we really trust Trump?

I'll repeat what you said - Don't hold your breath!
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 17 January 2025 11:22:37 AM
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From the US this week:

The Republican dominated House moved this week that, for the purposes of sport …

“Sex shall be recognised based solely on a person’s reproductive biology and genetics at birth”.

"The distinction between men and women is clear and evident, and the erasure of this division has been promulgated by those in the radical left who seek to dismantle the core foundation of our society”.

However, it just got across the line, with all but 2 Democrats against. There are still plenty of “bad guys” in Congress for good guy Trump to sort out.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 17 January 2025 11:34:47 AM
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For the old bloke who prattles on about "nobody cares what you say", must think the whole world is hanging off everything he posts..

Secretary General of the United Nations, before the General Assembly in 163 languages; "ttbn has posted on the forum again today".."WOW!" they all cry, "tell us more"!
Posted by Paul1405, Friday, 17 January 2025 12:16:28 PM
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One commentator wonders if the “Creator” got Trump into the job. God, he writes, chooses unexpected and poorly equipped types to do His work. “See the Twelve Apostles – and Pope Francis”. Bad governments like Mexico and Canada are already wilting even before Trump takes over. The cease fire in the Middle East is no coincidence either. The Australian government, of course, is stupid enough to believe that it will be business as usual with the a Trump-led US

This same commentator, whom I am not going to name so that the wackjobs can resort to their usual ‘kill the messenger and ignore the message’ tactics, further believes that Trump's survival of two assassination attempts were miracles.
Posted by ttbn, Friday, 17 January 2025 12:38:11 PM
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Hi ttbn,

'A foreigner is the only hope for Australia'

When you say that "Good or bad. Trump is the only hope left for not just America, but the entire West, particularly Australia, which has had nothing but very bad politicians since John Howard."
- Then I think we've already lost.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Friday, 17 January 2025 12:55:16 PM
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Not sure about "miracles".

But it is wise to remember that although a tongue has
no bones - it is strong enough to win legal defamation
cases. People need to be careful with their words.

As both Rudy Giuliani and Donald Trump learned.

Others may yet find out.

Legal action might be preferred and prove
more satisfying than a miracle.
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 17 January 2025 1:29:10 PM
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it's just so depressing & demoralising to see those who contribute nothing to society to blame politicians for the woes they themselves are perpetuating !
The best politician in the World couldn't make Australia better with constituents like the Leftists & Woke swamping the various Govt Departments !
Do your job & the Govt will be able to do what needs to be done. Remember we need to function as a symbiosis because we'll all continue go under with parasitism !
Posted by Indyvidual, Friday, 17 January 2025 4:41:03 PM
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Dear Banjo,

I just read a joke that might be applicable to Trump.

Trump was severely criticized by his wife for passing
severe wind each morning as he went from room to room
in their beautiful Trump Tower apartment.
His wife told him that if he wasn't careful, one day
he'd poop all of his guts out and make a mess in his pants.

Trump told her not to worry about it. Then along came the
public holiday of Thanksgiving. Trump's wife was in the kitchen
with their cook. She watched while the cook prepared the
turkey, taking out all the gizzards, guts, and insides. Trump was asleep in their bedroom.

Melania got the brilliant idea of how she could teach
Trump a lesson regarding his farting.

She scooped up all the guts and sneaked into the bedroom
placing everything into Trump's underpants.

She then went back to the kitchen. Trump woke up and white-faced
snuck into the kitchen.

"Melania, you were right. When I farted this morning I did
poop everything into my pants. But don't worry. With two
fingers I managed to push everything back in".

It seems you can't beat a man who's in control - right?
Posted by Foxy, Friday, 17 January 2025 5:10:33 PM
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ttbn said -

We have 3 flags, representing how divided we are. No other country in the world has more than one official flag.

A- Very good point ttbn.

Banjo Paterson said-

Democracy is collective self-determination which means that we don’t let our political decisions be made by a king or president or whatever, we make them collectively ourselves, we together decide what laws we should abide by. That is the promise of democracy : rule by the people for the people.

It is, however, a fact that populism inevitably leads to a dictatorship, which is why so many of the elite rich and powerful in the US are reneging on their formerly declared values and embracing those of Donald Trump.

A- A leader has to balance action and listening. Democracy is populism or popularism in a sense- someone made a distinction between populism and popularism- I forget the delineation measure- I think at the end of the article I cautiously agreed that some forms of 'popularity' led to a form of 'dictatorship'. But it's important to understand how the author actually defines popularity and dictatorship
Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 18 January 2025 2:29:16 AM
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Foxy said-

Can we really trust Trump?

A- Is Foxy just trying to create Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt- FUD?? We can't really trust anyone, but we have to trust someone. Trump has a proven track record.

What is the alternative? Biden!- who the Democrats deceived the public about for so long- hiding his mental condition- we don't seem to be able to trust the Democrats- it shows how well the Democrats are able to keep their people under control- and hide the truth. Sounds like dictatorship to me.

Trump needs to get on with his program as soon as possible after the 20th January if not before. I hope that Trump is at the Mexican border on at 11pm on the 19th January waiting for the US military to turn up and shut the border as soon as he takes office. All the surrounding bases need to have their leave cancelled and shipped out to the border by 2am in the morning. I hope that by 5am on the 20th January there is a functional wall in place.

The Democrats have played keep away with US security for too long. I hope that the great people of the US have a long enough memory that they never let the Democrats get into power again, for their contempt of the US people. The Democrats should be burned to the ground. Hopefully another party is formed that can be formed to fill the role that the Democrats are supposed to fill within the US
Posted by Canem Malum, Saturday, 18 January 2025 2:30:11 AM
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.

Dear ttbn,

.

You wrote :

« The Republican dominated House moved this week that, for the purposes of sport …

“Sex shall be recognised based solely on a person’s reproductive biology and genetics at birth”. »
.

That sems a logic decision to me, though I don’t know enough about the intricacies of the subject to judge if it is the best decision. What is clear is that there is more to human beings than biology and genetics. We are not just animals. We are far more evolved than that.

Who could possibly doubt that there are more than two clear-cut categories of human beings, men and women ? Nature is not perfect. It operates by trial and error and is sometimes slightly off-target, occasionally producing unusual combinations of male and female that are identifiable by modern science both physically and psychically.

Today, most international sports organisations work on the premise that human beings are either male or female. Consequently, all athletes, including intersex and transgender individuals, must be assigned to compete in one or other of these two categories.

About 3% of American high school students identify as transgender, according to data released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in October 2024. But across the U.S., 25 states have so far implemented some laws limiting transgender student-athletes from participating in competition, according to the Movement Advancement Project, a think tank that advocates for transgender rights.

I understand that the bill faces an uncertain future in the U.S. Senate. With a 53-47 majority, Republicans would be able to bring the bill up for a vote but may not be able to pass it given the chamber's filibuster rule that requires 60 members to agree on most legislation.

And it is unclear if any Senate Democrat would support the bill.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Saturday, 18 January 2025 3:05:29 AM
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.

Is Trump a pacifist and an isolationist, or is he a bellicist, and a nationalist – in addition to being a transactionalist ?

Trump often claims “that the United States was at peace during his first administration”, that he is “going to stop the wars”, that he is “against war”, and that there will be “no new wars” during his second term as president.

At the same time he threatens to impose a wide-range of tariffs when he takes office, including a blanket tariff of 10–20% on all imported goods, an additional tariff between 60 and 100% on Chinese goods, a 100% tariff on countries within the BRICS alliance if they attempt to undermine the U.S. dollar’s status as a global reserve currency, and a 25% tariff on all products imported from Mexico and Canada.

That seems like trade war to me.

He declared that “if Israeli hostages held by Hamas are not back by the time I get into office, all hell will break out in the Middle East”.

He then threatened to seize the Panama Canal and Greenland, if necessary, by military force, and make Canada the 51st state of the US.

In addition, he swears he will put “America First” and threatens to withdraw the US from the UN and no longer afford US protection to countries that fail to contribute a minimum of 2% of their GDP to their annual defence budget – demand that he increased a few months later to 5% of GDP.

He declared he would seek to "take" manufacturing jobs from foreign countries, including U.S. allies, by offering incentives to encourage companies to relocate to the United States. He promised a "manufacturing renaissance" as the centrepiece of his economic plan and said he would offer foreign companies low taxes and little regulation to entice them.

"We will take other countries' jobs," Trump said during a speech to supporters in Savannah, Georgia, which has one of the largest ports in the U.S. and is a car-manufacturing hub. "We're going to take their factories."

All that sounds nationalist, isolationist, and bellicist.

.
Posted by Banjo Paterson, Saturday, 18 January 2025 7:53:11 AM
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Dear Banjo,
The old adage applies in Trump's case.

"Actions speak louder than words".

And the man shall be judged in history by his actions.

The problem with Trump is - he is unpredictable and
unstable. And what he says and does is not always the
same thing. And for many people - the question is -
can the man be trusted?

That's why it is a time of uncertainty.

On a lighter side - perhaps we should go easy on the man.
I heard that Donald Trump was hospitalized last night.
He was hospitalized for an attack of modesty.
(smile).
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 18 January 2025 9:06:30 AM
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WTF?

So... if we have a "woke" left does that imply we have a "comatose" right?
Posted by WTF? - Not Again, Saturday, 18 January 2025 9:35:37 AM
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With the American presidential inauguration on Monday,
and out own elections on the horizon:

Your move Australia
Division or unity
Choose wisely
A vote is not a valentine
Your love for the candidate
Or the party, is a chess move
For the country and world
you want to live in.
(adapted from Ronald Reagan)

And remember we need a leader and a political party
who believes that - there is no limit to the good you
can do if you don't care who gets the credit.
(Ronald Reagan).
Posted by Foxy, Saturday, 18 January 2025 10:35:05 AM
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