Trumpster,

I simply picked up on your claim;

"Early European arrivals were shocked at the treatment the women received which far exceeded anything then applying or allowed in Europe."

In particular which early European arrivals said that? You make the claim so give it a name. I was surprised at that "shock" claim, given the treatment of women in Europe at that time. I could understand your claim if those early Europeans had come from a pure society where women were treated with nothing other than love and kindness, but they were not. So if I say you made it up, to add weight to what your argument, would I be correct.

More waffle from you, as you wrongly contend without actually saying so that, Paul accepts DV in Aboriginal society, because they are Aboriginal. No I do not, for me the acceptable level of DV in all of society is ZERO, so one act of DV is one act too many. AND, there are too many acts of DV in the Northern Territory as there is in the rest of Australia.

"Did that include burning women at the stake which was 40,000 to 60,000 between 1400 and 1775."

Those figures are so laughably wrong that you wonder that even someone as ill-informed as Paul believes them.

But having historic arguments with Paul is like discussing astrophysics with a palm reader.

I've told Paul before about the way aboriginal women were treated as slaves, sold to whalers and Chinese traders. Each time I did mention it he beat a path to the exit. Archaeological evidence shows that native women suffered broken bones and skulls at rates that were unsurpassed in other cultures. And when Europeans arrived they were shocked at the callousness of the way aboriginal women were treated.

One of the reasons the Tasmanian aboriginals were wiped out was the practice of the men selling their women for periods to the whalers and the fact that the women refused to return after spending time with those whalers.

The life, such as it was, for aboriginal women was hard and brutal and violent. For some it still is.

Kudos MHaze and Indyvidual and Armchair Critic. I was shocked when I saw that the bottle they were passing around in the park was metho (of course Australian metho is ethanol not methanol). It's interesting how they try to pull others into their drinking culture depending on the context.

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Dear mhaze,

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What I wrote was :

"This is rooted in historic and unequal patriarchal power structures, racism, exclusion and marginalization caused by a legacy of colonialism."
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Perhaps I did not express myself sufficiently clearly, mhaze.

What I meant was that only “exclusion and marginalization” are “caused by a legacy of colonialism”.

“Historic and unequal patriarchal power structures”, as you correctly point out, “existed long before the colonialists turned up”.

That leaves “racism” to be explained.

This refers to what has been described as “systemic racism” by police in an analysis of 151 Australian coronial court investigations and inquests over a 20-year period (2000-2020).

The analysis highlighted the vulnerability of Indigenous women to intimate partner homicides, noting that the women’s deaths, in most instances, were entirely preventable. It explored specifically the actions of police, given they were often the first responders to domestic violence.

Cases of police failing to respond correctly to urgent telephone pleas for help from Indigenous women were rife.

The system failings at the intersections of law, policy and practice have arguably in some cases contributed to these women having lost their lives. The analysis explored the nuances of the coronial findings, and policing practices and processes. It concluded by critically reflecting on ‘systemic racism’, coroners’ recommendations for addressing the problem and the significance of the issue in the context of a Queensland inquiry into policing that affirms similar findings.

Here is an article entitled “Indigenous Women and intimate partner homicide in Australia: confronting the Impunity of policing failures”

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/10345329.2023.2205625?needAccess=true

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Trumpster,

I don't doubt your claim that some Aboriginal women were treated badly by males within Aboriginal society. Instances of what you claim more than likely took place, even to the point of permeant physical injuries and even death being inflicted on women. BUT, what I dispute, given the females lot within a patriarchal European society that existed at the time, and given the evidence of grotesque acts Europeans inflicted on women within their own society, and the subsequent horrible acts of rape, murder and gendercide by male Europeans on Aboriginal women, I am surprised that Europeans were "SHOCKED" as you claim by the treatment of Aboriginal women by men. To give impact to what you were saying, YOU MADE THAT CLAIM UP!

As you want to minimise European treatment of their own women, when I said 40,000 to 60,000, mostly women, were burnt at the stake by Europeans during 300 years of the colonizing period you poo-hoo'd it because it don't suit your narrative. There is ample evidence of my figure if you care to look. Of course you have no creditable alternative to offer, as there is none.

""YOU MADE THAT CLAIM UP!"

Over the years Paul, I've provided you and others here with a plethora of quotes from early colonists and explorers concerning their reactions to the violent treatment of the aboriginal women and the way those women sought refuge from white men whenever it was offered. I don't propose to regurgitate those yet again because in the end you don't care about the truth and will forget it as soon as you read it. But I'll mention two by pointing you to Lyndall Ryan's book on the Tasmanian aboriginals and how their birth rate plummeted due to the practice of selling, really renting, young women to whalers and pastoralists and the refusal of the women to return to the violence in their tribe. Secondly I'd point you to the observations of the Blaxland expedition over the Blue Mountains where they saw an aboriginals woman beaten to death for what they considered to be trivial reasons.

Paul hoped..."There is ample evidence of my figure if you care to look."
Translation - he made the figure up and hopes that someone else will validate it for him.

They won't because they can't.

For fact adverse Paul....http://tiny.cc/xyo2001

Note: 16152 executed between 1300 and 1850 of which a small fraction were burned at the stake.

OK maybe one more... I'd refer you to the Sturt diaries of his trips through the Murray region where he observed that most women had scars where they'd be stabbed with spears for infraction against their male owners.