“But aboriginal society was possibly the most misogynistic ever. Evidence is that women were treated abysmally. Something like 50% of all examined female skeletons in archaeology show head and bone fractures. But because of this desire to see utopia in pre-Cook society, this information is suppressed.
Yet today, aboriginal women suffer domestic violence at rates that far outstrip other groups. But because we hide the true nature of their society, we head down the wrong path in trying to fix this problem, when we even bother to try. When we portrait domestic violence, we always see white men doing it when a more accurate picture would be aboriginal men doing what their culture has taught them to do for millennia.”
http://tiny.cc/j7z1001

A report into the DV deaths of four aboriginal women was handed down recently. The four women had been killed in the previous year. They were just the latest with at least 82 NT aboriginal women killed in DV incidents in the last 20 years. "Each death examined in this inquest was preceded by years, decades even, of other acts of harassment, control and violence.”

The report found that up to 80% of NT police time was taken up with DV issues and almost all of that was in the aboriginal community.

The inquiry listed 35 recommendations as to how to approach the problem. None considered facing the cultural inheritance of an inherently misogynist tradition.

Meanwhile a survivor of DV at the hands of her ‘partner’ has said the quite bit out loud… “Annie fears violence is becoming normalised and says the cultural shame of speaking out — or getting the law involved — can make it harder for women like her to be up-front.”

Cultural shame. They shame their culture when they speak out so many don’t, and more are pressured to remain silent.

Aboriginal culture doesn’t value women. Never has. The only way to address the rampant DV in that community is to face those facts head on. But Australian society isn’t prepared to be so ‘racists’ so the disproportionate deaths of aboriginal women will continue.

Why single out only Aboriginal culture?

How many other cultures exist around the globe that
have historically treated women and girls badly for
centuries and the matriarchal systems that are still in
control.

Do all cultures really provide for women, easy access
to education, to employment opportunities?
Do wonen and girls have access to reproductive health and
rights, to
maternal health. How many experience gender-based violence,
child marriages, female-genital mutilation, or gender
equality?

If we're going to talk about cultures and the treatment of
women and girls perhaps we need to broaden the discussion
to include other cultures and not just finger-point at
our Aboriginal communities? Domestic violence is a serious
problem in this country.

Lets look at domestic violence and the treatment of women
in our communities as a whole - not just those in
Aboriginal communities.

Only fair?

Instead of treating aboriginal criminals and bash-artists like everyone else, Albo the Idiot came up with Voice. Treating certain people differently has put the rest of us right off these no-hopers

"Why single out only Aboriginal culture?"

Because the report was about the problem of aboriginal domestic violence in the northern territory.

Because 80% of NT police time is taken up by addressing aboriginal DV.

Because DV deaths among NT aboriginal women occurs at rates far greater than non-aboriginal deaths.

Because aboriginal women at 35 times more likely to be hospitalised due to DV than non-aboriginals,

Because solving the problem of aboriginal DV is more important than trying to hide the misogyny in that culture.

Aboriginal women die in disproportionate numbers because virtue signallers want to pretend the aboriginal culture is blameless.

We can only accurately speak from a point of view based on personal experience.

The first view must be from the premise that the Aboriginal culture is tribal. Until you grasp this fact, not much will makes sense: even then, the Western man struggles to make sense of the tribal chaos displayed before him, because Western individualism shines above all other possibilities and broader understandings as his own cultural God, so he is blinded to tribal simplicities.

Then there is his own view of superiority built upon his concepts and experiences of individualism, and thus is built the concrete platform of bigotry and racism: This then is the sadness and the permanent distancing, that turns the genuine Aboriginal struggle for recognition and equality on its head. The White dominant culture demands a return on investment in the recognisable currency of individual change; but this return is an impossible ask!

Hi mhaze,

You might have mentioned that cave in WA. Yes, there is censorship to support the idyllic hunter gatherer narrative, but how does that relate to the current dv? You have said "They know what to do but they don't do it.". So what is it that might be done?

Why single out only Aboriginal culture?
Foxy,
That's why ? You're a perfect example for the need of it !

But the Voice Committee (of black/white politicians in Canberra) would have buried the truth about Aboriginal male DV in NT.

Aye Foxy?!

mhaze,

I agree what's happening in the NT is shocking and a
crisis. However, your opening post was not a balanced
one. You put the entire blame on only one side. Hence
my response.

I'm not trying to excuse any one's behavior but a more
balanced account would have helped.

You made no mention that the NT police commissioner
Michael Murphy and many other figures voiced many
concerns not only about the NT police force, racism,
about the evidence of "chronic and shocking" under funding
and survices struggling to meet demand.

Of the NT government rejecting
calls for $180m to be spent over 5 years for women's
shelters, behaviour change programs, and police reform.

Recommendations have been made as to what should be
addressed including increased and indexed funding for
family violence services, an overhaul of prison and
men's behaviour change programs, culturally appropriate
supports and the establishment of an NT peak body
for domestic and family violence.

The NT's peak Aboriginal Health body, "Aboriginal Medical
Services Alliance" called on the NT Government to fulfil
its $180m election commitment to tackling the crisis to
move beyond "lip service".

"This is a crisis that has cost far too many lives.
Particulaly the lives of Aboriginal women and the
reality is these traumas are preventable".

My apologies - but those are the reasons for my earlier
reaction. There's more to what's happening in the
NT and all of it needs to be told.

Hi Maverick,

No. I suspect it's the NT government that has probably
buried a great deal of information and facts.

"You might have mentioned that cave in WA. "

I have no idea what that means. Care to elucidate?

" "They know what to do but they don't do it. So what is it that might be done?"

Within the wider community there are significant efforts to try to address broader issues and try to change the culture that results in DV in some groups. So we see campaigns telling men and women (but mainly men) to respect women and teach their sons greater respect for women. It also campaigns to have men accept more responsibility for violence when they see or know about it and to step in to address it.

I think much of this is mere virtue signalling and needs to be better targeted but the effort is a step (or a gigantic stride) in the right direction.

But we see no such approach in the aboriginal community. We know that aboriginal culture is/was highly misogynist but that cannot be acknowledged by the aboriginal industry and its satellites. So it cannot be addressed.

In a post above Foxy lists all the things the report recommended about addressing aboriginal DV. But these are all 'after-the-event' spending - more community centres, more police presence, more women's refuges etc. But no where do we see recommendations about trying to change the male culture of DV among aboriginal men as we see in the wider community.

In today's world its OK to tell all white men they are misogynist bastards who need to change. But its impossible to say that to aboriginal men, apparently. We know aboriginal men can change since urbanised aboriginals have DV rates similar to the wider community.

The quote I had in the first post was an aboriginal women acknowledging that they don't talk about DV because it shames their culture. And the wider community doesn't talk about the causes for the vastly higher aboriginal DV rates for the same reasons.

Until that changes, everything else is just putting band-aids on an open wound.

From what I've seen of today's world - it's the making of
excuses for violent behaviour. "They're being blamed because
they're white". It's all about "women power" and feminism"" don't
you know. And so it goes. The band plays on. It's never
the fault of men. Nobody that I know claims that it is.

Domestic violence is personal and circumstances are different
in each case. The adds tell us - teach kids from the
start - about respect. Children are influenced by what they
see around them.

Don't finger-point.
Take responsibility. Teach respect.

As for the Aboriginal violence in the NT?

The government has to take action instead of
just "lip service" as stated earlier. Recommendations
have been made from within the areas affected.
More action is needed, not excuses.

This might help:

http://abc.net.au/news/2024-11-26/the-struggle-of-a-domestic-violence-victim-in-the-nt/104639456

I know that this is probably going to be one of those things you don't get because you don't want to get it...but one more try.

I'm not saying the government shouldn't, wouldn't or couldn't do all the things the reports authors recommend. More refuges - sure. Better police training- OK. More police-always good. Gaoling offenders - of course.

But the one thing they haven't done, don't recommend doing and can't even raise, is confronting the inherent misogyny in the male aboriginal community in the NT.

Occasionally the veil gets lifted and we hear of the "cultural shame" that the misogyny and resultant DV entails but governments and the virtue signalling bureaucracy cannot bring itself to acknowledge, let alone confront it.

So the DV will continue. Aboriginal women will continue to die in disproportionate numbers and be hospitalised in disproportionate numbers. And that will continue until someone or some group becomes sufficiently motivated to address the background cause.

mhaze,

As far as I know the Aboriginal community groups and
organisations in the NT and around Australia have
tried and are trying to address the issues concerned.
They have made and are making recommendations.

The problems appear to be complex, and it's not a matter
of one size fits all.

Hopefully actions will be taken sooner rather than later.
Perhaps if The Voice would have been approved to allow
Aboriginal self determination in allowing Aboriginal
communities to advise the government in issues that
confront the Aboriginal communities - had Australia
allowed for this to happen - Australia may have been
headed in the right direction. Unfortunately Australia
said No!

Phew! thank God Foxy.

I thought for a moment there that the historic millennial old aboriginal misogyny and violence toward women and girls might have had something to do with their culture.

Its reassuring to know that it was all the fault of we Australians who failed to vote as our betters had instructed.

I'm sure the next time an aboriginal women suffers a beating or worse from her partner, her first thought will be that she wished they had a bunch of bureaucrats in Canberra to talk about it.

Anyone who has ever witnessed Aboriginal women stirring up their men requires no explanation or reason regarding domestic violence in indigenous communities !
In our European society anyone who has experienced social workers does not need any explanation for domestic violence either !

Yes Indyvidual,
Drunk aboriginal woman drinking flagon in the park are usually the first to mouth off against the whites.
- Then disparage their own men as weak and gutless for not going on with it, until they join in.

mhaze,

I'm sorry that you misunderstood what I was trying to say.
The Aboriginal communities were simply asking for help.
Not blaming anyone.

Unfortunately Australia
said No!
Foxy,
Unfortunately, there's no polite way to say this but you obviously are totally clueless when it comes to matters indigenous !
I truly abhor using such terms but you don't seem to do as you preach. There are people who know better than the self-proclaimed experts you appear to hold in such high esteem.
Do yourself & everyone else a favour & absorb what's actually going on. You'll find it is the exact opposite to how you'd like it to be !

Hi Foxy,

You ask; "Why single out only Aboriginal culture?"

Because the racists who started the thread sees the excessive amount of domestic violence in the Aboriginal community in the NT as a "winner", and another way to bash "darkie" over the head with a; "see I told you so"! Naturally, the racists is assisted by a chorus of rednecks who pile on. Do you think the Trumpster has any genuine concern for Aboriginal women suffering DV, he doesn't give a rats arse, it just presents an opportunity to attack the hated black fella. He likes to call a spade a spade!

On the score of DV, it is unacceptable in all communities, including Aboriginal ones, and education is absolutely a key factor in alleviating what is a growing and dangerous trend within society. Somehow we have to destroy that macho male tendency towards violence as a first resort in relationships. Its too prevalent and has to be eradicated, and education seems to be the only answer. What are you thoughts?

Sadly due to political forces the police force doesn't seem to be able to focus their efforts on the source of the problem without being accused of stereotyping. This creates additional cost and complexity. Aboriginals in Australia and Afro-Americans both have a culture of rejecting white society in the name of uncle tom-ism and accusations of turning traitor against their own culture. Unfortunately this makes it harder for these sub-cultures to conform to acceptable standards of behavior. Effectively these sub-cultures have declared war against the dominant culture.

Idiots arguing with idiots,

Dear Paul,

I certainly don't have the answers to the problem of
domestic violence. I feel that education certainly
could help. It has to start early. Culture certainly
makes a difference and perhaps many of us don't
really understand the difference that culture makes.
Every culture is different and personal.

Not living in the NT - many of us are not aware of
what's going on and the problems involved. That's
why I mentioned The Voice - where the Aboriginal
communities were asking to give advice to governments
on the problems that affect them.

Do these problems go deeper? I don't know. I suspect,
the problems are deep and entrenched. A matriarchy
perhaps? As you said - education for all would
possibly be of benefit.

Hi Foxy, Merry Christmas.

Educated people, and those who gain a level of economic freedom through education, will in most cases rise above cultural norms which promote negative divisions within their particular group. That's not to say people with a propensity towards violence wont be violent, they will. Its not much different within our own society.

Dear Paul,

I guess we all need to better
understand and appreciate not only the Aboriginal
but other cultures as well, within
our country if we want to establish relationships
build strong alliances, and try to solve problems.
So if we're working with people it would help to have some
perspective and understanding of their cultures. As you said,
education is key.

At the same time we can't pretend our cultures and differences
don't matter. We can't gloss over differences and pretend
they don't exist, wishing we could all be alike, And,
we can't pretend biases and discrimination doesn't exist.

All we can do is remember that everyone has an important
viewpoint and role to play. We need people to work
together and be included in the decision making process
for things to work and recognise that cultural
inclusion goes hand in hand with a just and equitable
society.

A wish to you and yours for love, peace, and happiness
at Christmas and
throughout the coming New Year 2025.

How can you have an intelligent discussion when the likes of Canem Malum refer to a 'sub-culture"? Such comments cement Carl Sagan's observation that western culture has this blind spot whereby they refuse to acknowledge that anyone else could possibly teach them something.

A huge shout-out to Foxy and Paul who still politely engage with these individuals. You are so much more tolerant than I could be.

Carl Sagan was apparently had a "Reform Hebrew" background. There are many that want to come to Western nations then complain they are "too Western"- well der.

If anything this lowers my estimation of Carl Sagan specifically and Hebrew intelligence generally.

At least Peter Drucker and Alvin Toffler balance the scales somewhat.

In a sense Carl Sagan's comments may be a form of projection- based on his sense of being isolated from the dominant culture. I think that it could be said that Westerners believed that Carl Sagan could teach them something.

Physics can be a lonely pursuit.

Freud (and Edward Bernays) also Hebrew had similar but even more concerning projections perhaps- he referred to "the dangerous crowd" in democratic nations and even wrote a book about it. Often before someone goes to war against someone else they will present that group as dangerous. Of course this doesn't mean that every dangerous group is a matter of projection.

At least Carl Sagan didn't present Western culture and people as a threat, as Aries54 seems to be doing.

Every culture should have their own nation.

Maybe Aries54 doesn't identify with the mainstream culture, and is hostile to the west, which is why he might want to write The West out of their own narrative.

Talking about nations and cultures?

There's so many to admire.

Surely we've all enjoyed British actors, musicians,
watching their theatres, films, tv shows. We have to
admit there's something that is great about being
British. I recently saw a t-shirt that had the
following message on it - "Drink Russian, Drive German,
Wear Italain, Kiss French".

So much to admire from so many.

Each having deep traditions, culture and history.
i
All worth noting in their own remarkable way.
Germany is known for its quality management, of
getting the job done with minimal waste and quality
output. Japan for its civility and innovation. Italy
knows how to live the good life. Sweden - for its good work/
life balance , just to name a few.

It's an exciting world we live in. And so much to travel to
and learn from.

Foxy sounds a bit like British Hebrew Economist- "David Ricardo".

The nation that produces a commodity most efficiently should produce it for the world (this means there will be more productive capacity to produce other commodities).

See some objections to this idea below... I have my own objections too...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ricardo#Criticism_of_the_Ricardian_theory_of_trade

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ricardo

I agree with Ayn Rand that you can't do business with those that are "out to get you".
_____________

Machiavelli in The Prince (also Yuri Bezmenov) recognised that The West had a weakness over Asia in that because of it's subsidiarity/ granular structure, it could be fragmented and destroyed. Asian government being more authoritarian, based on it's rotating officials model, could attack western structures without them being able to defend against it.

I've never heard of David Ricardo. And when travelling
to other countries, as a foreigner I don't want to run
the risk of focusing on poverty and a lack of resources or
on corruption, religious strife, et cetera. These are
valid issues but they are not the only side to any country.

I made a small list. We all have our favourites that we
admire and respect for a variety of reasons. Countries
where we feel welcomed. Often where people have a
strong sense of identity, community, and belonging.
Where they like to celebrate their traditions, cuisines,
et cetera.

I've learned a great deal from my travels, including that
we need to respect the norms and values of our neighbours.
To try to avoid steretypes, judgements, and biases.
But of course at times, that's easier said than done.

cont'd ...

Talking about Ayn Rand?

There are many who admire her. For me tha fly in
the ointment of Ayn Rand's philosophical "objectivism"
is the plain fact that humans have a tendency to
co-operate and to look out for each other as noted
by many anthropologists.

What if we all allowed ourselves to be blinded to all
but our own self interests?

Dear Canem,
So many words and such energy you have devoted to trying to justify to yourself that you aren't a frightened little man, afraid or unable to see the beauty and wonder of the world around you and everything human existence has contributed. Oh well, Foxy generously gave you a short list of things you might like to work on. Good luck.

Ayn Rand doesn't seem to be against cooperation but seems to be against forced cooperation.

Ayn Rand is not just about "self interest" it's probably more accurate as "enlightened self interest". As far as cooperation vs competition is concerned I agree that both are important. There is a lot more to Objectivism. Ayn Rand describes Objectivism as the philosophy of life and says that there exist philosophies of death. Objectivism is rooted in life giving attributes of productivity, and the paradigm that a successful life sustaining civilization needs to encourage those individuals and systems that lead to the most productivity. It seems to accept Schumpeter's concept of creative destruction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_destruction

Ayn Rand seems to be against those organisations that use their market power to create laws and red tape to artificially protect themselves from competition, and believes that in the long term this doesn't even help those creating the laws.

Other insight into Objectivism is through John Galt's Speech and Francisco's Money Speech.

I believe that there are some flaws with Ayn Rand- but she says many things that make sense

Paul has basically made my point for me. That point being that one of the fundamental solutions to the massively excessive DV in the aboriginal community can't and won't be addressed because it means addressing the massive misogyny inherent in aboriginal culture.

So Paul doesn't deny that there is a massive DV problem with the less integrated aboriginals. He doesn't deny that aboriginal women suffer at rates vastly greater than women in other groups. He just thinks its racist to point it out. And so, by trying to suppress the facts, his approach will ensure that the problem persists. But in the minds of these people like Paul, protecting the reputation of the culture is vastly more important than protecting the actual women.

That, to my thinking is a despicable approach.

As an aside Paul refers to me several time in the plural..."Because the racists who started the thread..."; "Naturally, the racists is assisted". I think he's so impressed by my output that he thinks I'm more than one man.

.

Dear mhaze,

.

In the United States, the National Institute of Justice found that 84 per cent of Indigenous American women have experienced some form of violence in their lifetimes, while in Canada, indigenous women are almost seven times more likely to be murdered than non-indigenous women.

Similarly, The World Bank estimates that six in ten indigenous women in Ecuador have experienced violence. In fact, indigenous women and girls around the world face systematic violence that permeates every aspect of their lives, according to reports by the UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women.

This is rooted in historic and unequal patriarchal power structures, racism, exclusion and marginalization caused by a legacy of colonialism.

The situation in Australia is no different. The same root causes produce the same horrendous domestic violence results among our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.

Our state and federal governments must take stock of the situation and act accordingly.

.

"Sadly due to political forces the police force doesn't seem to be able to focus their efforts on the source of the problem without being accused of stereotyping. "

T'other day, Mrs mhaze and I were watching an ABC news bulletin. One of the main stories was about one of the women who was part of the inquest into the DV deaths. It turned out that her partner and eventual killer had committed a minor offence earlier on the day of the murder, for which he could have been arrested although the police declined to do so. So one of the main points was that the police failed in their duty by NOT arresting the bloke and that resulted in her death. Police, it suggested, should arrest such people even if the charges are minor.

Later in the same bulletin they did a retrospective on the Palm Island riots which was caused by a death in custody. The main point of the story was that the deceased had been arrested on a relatively minor charge. The reporting suggested that police shouldn't arrest people on minor charges.

Irrespective of what happens, the police will be blamed. Its the only certainty in this saga.

Talking about Ayn Rand?

Yes, we deserve to keep what we earn. We deserve freedom
from guilt about doing things for ourselves but Ayn
Rand took it a step further. She pointed out that
altruism was inherently foolish and destructive. She
made the point that producers should hoard all they
produced or distribute it only for personal gain because
they are entitled to it.

That I find problematic because there's more to self-interest
in human existence. Altruism can generate good will and joy,
in itself a valuable thing for any individual.

No one succeeds in a vacuum and no one is an island. We don't
just work on reason alone. We also work on emotion.

Of course there will be people who will be all for
prioritising themselves but for others basking in the joys of
doing things for others brings happiness that can't be
manufactured.

Bill Gates gets this as do many others. When you have plenty
it's a virtue to share.

Ayn Rand's philosophy is interesting. She was born in
St. Petersburg in 1905 to a Jewish family.
12 billionaires with Jewish backgrounds appear on the list
of America's generous givers' who donated a collective
$27 billion in 2022.

Dear Banjo,

The following link may be of interest. It shows
what the NT is investing in - from providing services
to those affected by violence. To programs that seek
to prevent violence over time by changing community
attitudes that condone the use of violence,

http://families.gov.au/domestic-family-and-sexual-violence/domestic-family-and-sexual-violence-prevention

"This is rooted in historic and unequal patriarchal power structures, racism, exclusion and marginalization caused by a legacy of colonialism."

No, these "patriarchal power structures" existed long before the colonialists turned up. All stone aged indigenous societies that the Europeans came upon in the 16th, 17th and 18th centuries were highly misogynistic before their arrival. There is ample evidence that Australian aboriginal women were little more than chattels in that society, beaten, enslaved, sometimes sold, often raped and stolen by rival tribes. Archaeological evidence shows aboriginal women suffered broken limbs and fracture skulls in ratios that can't be explained in ways other than the overbearing 'discipline' of their male owners.

Early European arrivals were shocked at the treatment the women received which far exceeded anything then applying or allowed in Europe.

As with all things resulting from the failures of aboriginal culture, the apologists seek to blame the colonialists on the basis that the natives lived in a veritable Eden of plenty, and equality prior to 1770. That Disneyfied thinking works fine for some, but in the real world....

Paul has basically made my point for me. That point being that one of the fundamental solutions to the massively excessive DV in the aboriginal community can't and won't be addressed because it means addressing the massive misogyny inherent in aboriginal culture.

So Paul doesn't deny that there is a massive DV problem with the less integrated aboriginals. He doesn't deny that aboriginal women suffer at rates vastly greater than women in other groups. He just thinks its racist to point it out. And so, by trying to suppress the facts, his approach will ensure that the problem persists. But in the minds of these people like Paul, protecting the reputation of the culture is vastly more important than protecting the actual women.

Posted by mhaze, Monday, 23 December 2024 9:22:01 AM
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=10525#366818
_________

I remember hearing about the links between the Marxist's and the Aboriginal's that were formed in the 1980's when Hawke and Keating were in Cairns.
It seems that the Marxist Aboriginal groups are reframing abuse by males in Aboriginal communities as white male abuse, just in the way they have sliced the cake. This way destruction in Aboriginal communities is tied to the destruction of White communities- brilliant in it's own evil way.

The Aboriginal drinking is far less of a problem to society as a whole in comparison to the inferior mentality of drug abusers of all ethnicities however, Westerners are to most destructive with white Australians leading the tables.
Not even wars have caused as much damage as drugs, too many are just not switched on enough to grasp the seriousness of the situation !
The Anti Western outfits are having laughing fits !

Ayn Rand (Rosenbaum) defines altruism differently to some. She is against donating money to people that aren't producing, and don't have the prospect of producing anything ever. The way Rand puts it "against altruism but supports charity". She believes that charity needs to be at the givers choice.

I think that there is a lot of misrepresentation of Rand by Marxist groups.

Some principles...

- It's been said that Libertarian's give more than other groups,
- no one lives forever,
- even a rich mans family may not have the ability to produce,
- if a rich man believes in making things easier for the next generation of the nation then there are things they can do to continue this value creation,
- rich people are probably the better ones to make the decision on how to continue the common wealth in future generations,
- some say that people start businesses because they look for ways to create value in the community,
- a better way to help a family member that doesn't have ability is to create a better community (than to give them the money because they will just waste it).
- Rand seems to believe that giving free money to unproductive people just spreads nihilism and death and evil (that doesn't mean that you give all the money to the most productive people in society, but you should encourage everyone to be productive according to their ability).
- Giving money to productive people creates cheaper/ better products that the whole society benefits from.
- John Galt's speech has some similarities with the speech from the "Wachowski Sisters" movie "V for Vendetta".
- Ayn Rand seems to borrow some ideas from Nietzsche but doesn't acknowledge it perhaps because she is Hebrew. Hebrew philosopher Jeffrey Kaplan is seemingly more generous to Nietzsche and his Genealogy Of Morals (where he discusses the Priestly vs Knightly Codes). It seems that Rand has used the Priestly/ Knightly Codes as Objectivism

- Rand admits to borrowing from Aristotle- probably his conceptualization of freedom (compared to JSM's version of freedom), and some other concepts.
- Rand apparently rejected Marxism, having lived through the Communist Revolution, in spite of many fellow Hebrew's supporting it.
- Rand was closely associated with Hebrew Federal Reserve Chairman "Alan Greenspan".
- Rand talks about so called "objectivist emotions", "objectivist teamwork", "objectivist virtues".
- When Bill Gates was younger he echoed some of Rand's idea's perhaps without fully understanding them.
- Rand apparently obtained post graduate qualifications in philosophy.
- Rand seems to see much taxation as forced altruism.
- Rand objects to creeping and incompetent government spending and red tape, that seems to finally end in state control of everything, by academic tenured theoreticians (Platonic Abstraction) without the checks of Aristotelian Empiricism (as embodied in Raphael's School Of Athens).

Francisco's Money Speech
http://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2002/08/franciscos-money-speech/

John Galt's Speech
http://amberandchaos.net/?page_id=73

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand

In the 2021 Australian Census there were 984,000 Aboriginal
and Torres Strait Islander people in Australia which is only
3.8% of the total population. And yet we find that these people
continue to face high incarceration rates and other
numerous other problems.

They continue to be disproportionately represented in our justice
systems. We are given a variety of factors that puts Australian
Aborigines adults and children onto criminal justice conveyor
belts in large numbers.

Some of the reasons given include:

Spending time in and out of home as a child. Having contact
with police early in life. Being a victim of violence and
abuse. Experiencing poverty. Having poor or no safe housing.
Poor school education. Having a mental health or cognitive
disability and not getting support. Early introduction to
alcohol and drugs.

And the cycle just continue.

It is a dire situation. Yet there is hope.
Inspectors of prisons, children's commissioners,
the disability royal commission,
Aboregional legal services, legal and Aboriginal controlled
organisations are all urging governments to address poverty
and disadvantage, improve educational opportunities, stop
the police being the frontline service for mental health
and disability matters and listen to and act on Aboriginal
community knowledge and insight.

Studies have been done all saying the same thing.

If some people are suicidal, and some organisations are suicidal, then some cultures are suicidal.

Research suggests that suicide is influenced by a
combination of factors that overlap and interact.
We need more insights to guide our future efforts
to guide suicide prevention.

Trumpy ,

I don't think you act alone on these concoctions, yes there must be a cell of racists who collaborate on these posts attributed only to you.

"Early European arrivals were shocked at the treatment the women received which far exceeded anything then applying or allowed in Europe".

Did that include burning women at the stake which was 40,000 to 60,000 between 1400 and 1775. Then there were those executed for heresy, after being tortured and defiled. What about the Spanish in America, raped and murdered native women in the most grotesque ways. Then here in Australia, white men raped and then murdered Aboriginal women in the most heinous acts, including slitting women with a knife from their Virginia to their throats, white men for fun, would use a knife to cut the unborn from within pregnant native women.

BTW, in Europe at that time a woman accused of adultery was forced with head shaven to run a gauntlet of citizens who would beat them with sticks, stone and spit upon the said adultness. However the same punishment didn't apply to a male, they simply walked away.

Trumpster, were any of your European ancestors involved in any of the above, a little burning or some such thing?

Dear Paul,

The book - "Damned Whores and God's Police" by Anne Summers
is an interesting read.

cont'd ...
Still relevant today. More's the pity.

Hi Foxy,

According to mhaze Europeans were "shocked" at the treatment of Aboriginal women. Yet the shocking treatment of European women at the same time didn't faze them at all. Often convict women in Australia were assigned to male overlords who treated them abysmally, worked to death sex slaves. I can't think of anything more shocking than to be tied to a stake, and have a fire slowly consume one alive. Do you find that strange, I do.

Oh good....as always happens here, once Paul realises the facts don't support his fantasies he wants to talk about something else. So he stops trying to claim that aboriginal society was nirvana on earth and instead tries to say it was no worse than other places. Well he's half way to understanding.

Yep many women were killed in Europe for witch-craft. But ya know what, they aren't any more. But aboriginal women still die at massively disproportionate numbers at the hands of their 'partners'. And people like Paul are still trying to make excuses for those 'partners' and thereby ensuring that the deaths will continue.

" And yet we find that these people
continue to face high incarceration "

Yep. They commit more crime and therefore end up in prison. Although not often enough according to the ABC and the NT DV inquiry.

these people
continue to face high incarceration rates and other
numerous other problems.
Foxy,
Imagine how much lower these rates would be if Police were allowed to act as they should
if only the academic "experts" didn't constantly sabotage society !

Trumpster,

I simply picked up on your claim;

"Early European arrivals were shocked at the treatment the women received which far exceeded anything then applying or allowed in Europe."

In particular which early European arrivals said that? You make the claim so give it a name. I was surprised at that "shock" claim, given the treatment of women in Europe at that time. I could understand your claim if those early Europeans had come from a pure society where women were treated with nothing other than love and kindness, but they were not. So if I say you made it up, to add weight to what your argument, would I be correct.

More waffle from you, as you wrongly contend without actually saying so that, Paul accepts DV in Aboriginal society, because they are Aboriginal. No I do not, for me the acceptable level of DV in all of society is ZERO, so one act of DV is one act too many. AND, there are too many acts of DV in the Northern Territory as there is in the rest of Australia.

"Did that include burning women at the stake which was 40,000 to 60,000 between 1400 and 1775."

Those figures are so laughably wrong that you wonder that even someone as ill-informed as Paul believes them.

But having historic arguments with Paul is like discussing astrophysics with a palm reader.

I've told Paul before about the way aboriginal women were treated as slaves, sold to whalers and Chinese traders. Each time I did mention it he beat a path to the exit. Archaeological evidence shows that native women suffered broken bones and skulls at rates that were unsurpassed in other cultures. And when Europeans arrived they were shocked at the callousness of the way aboriginal women were treated.

One of the reasons the Tasmanian aboriginals were wiped out was the practice of the men selling their women for periods to the whalers and the fact that the women refused to return after spending time with those whalers.

The life, such as it was, for aboriginal women was hard and brutal and violent. For some it still is.

Kudos MHaze and Indyvidual and Armchair Critic. I was shocked when I saw that the bottle they were passing around in the park was metho (of course Australian metho is ethanol not methanol). It's interesting how they try to pull others into their drinking culture depending on the context.

.

Dear mhaze,

.

What I wrote was :

"This is rooted in historic and unequal patriarchal power structures, racism, exclusion and marginalization caused by a legacy of colonialism."
.

Perhaps I did not express myself sufficiently clearly, mhaze.

What I meant was that only “exclusion and marginalization” are “caused by a legacy of colonialism”.

“Historic and unequal patriarchal power structures”, as you correctly point out, “existed long before the colonialists turned up”.

That leaves “racism” to be explained.

This refers to what has been described as “systemic racism” by police in an analysis of 151 Australian coronial court investigations and inquests over a 20-year period (2000-2020).

The analysis highlighted the vulnerability of Indigenous women to intimate partner homicides, noting that the women’s deaths, in most instances, were entirely preventable. It explored specifically the actions of police, given they were often the first responders to domestic violence.

Cases of police failing to respond correctly to urgent telephone pleas for help from Indigenous women were rife.

The system failings at the intersections of law, policy and practice have arguably in some cases contributed to these women having lost their lives. The analysis explored the nuances of the coronial findings, and policing practices and processes. It concluded by critically reflecting on ‘systemic racism’, coroners’ recommendations for addressing the problem and the significance of the issue in the context of a Queensland inquiry into policing that affirms similar findings.

Here is an article entitled “Indigenous Women and intimate partner homicide in Australia: confronting the Impunity of policing failures”

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/epdf/10.1080/10345329.2023.2205625?needAccess=true

.

Trumpster,

I don't doubt your claim that some Aboriginal women were treated badly by males within Aboriginal society. Instances of what you claim more than likely took place, even to the point of permeant physical injuries and even death being inflicted on women. BUT, what I dispute, given the females lot within a patriarchal European society that existed at the time, and given the evidence of grotesque acts Europeans inflicted on women within their own society, and the subsequent horrible acts of rape, murder and gendercide by male Europeans on Aboriginal women, I am surprised that Europeans were "SHOCKED" as you claim by the treatment of Aboriginal women by men. To give impact to what you were saying, YOU MADE THAT CLAIM UP!

As you want to minimise European treatment of their own women, when I said 40,000 to 60,000, mostly women, were burnt at the stake by Europeans during 300 years of the colonizing period you poo-hoo'd it because it don't suit your narrative. There is ample evidence of my figure if you care to look. Of course you have no creditable alternative to offer, as there is none.

""YOU MADE THAT CLAIM UP!"

Over the years Paul, I've provided you and others here with a plethora of quotes from early colonists and explorers concerning their reactions to the violent treatment of the aboriginal women and the way those women sought refuge from white men whenever it was offered. I don't propose to regurgitate those yet again because in the end you don't care about the truth and will forget it as soon as you read it. But I'll mention two by pointing you to Lyndall Ryan's book on the Tasmanian aboriginals and how their birth rate plummeted due to the practice of selling, really renting, young women to whalers and pastoralists and the refusal of the women to return to the violence in their tribe. Secondly I'd point you to the observations of the Blaxland expedition over the Blue Mountains where they saw an aboriginals woman beaten to death for what they considered to be trivial reasons.

Paul hoped..."There is ample evidence of my figure if you care to look."
Translation - he made the figure up and hopes that someone else will validate it for him.

They won't because they can't.

For fact adverse Paul....http://tiny.cc/xyo2001

Note: 16152 executed between 1300 and 1850 of which a small fraction were burned at the stake.

OK maybe one more... I'd refer you to the Sturt diaries of his trips through the Murray region where he observed that most women had scars where they'd be stabbed with spears for infraction against their male owners.

There's three things we can be certain about in regards to this topic:

1. In a year or three, some group or other will be talking about the still unresolved, and probably worsening, problems with DV in the aboriginal community.

2. They'll marvel that all the changes made this year had little to no effect and will therefore propose that the solution is to spend more money.

3. They'll assiduously avoid address the real cause due to cultural shame.

And the beat (& beatings) goes on (Sonny Bono).

Anyone remember when some Palm Islanders got stuck into a drum of AVgas that was washed ashore there ?
I knew blokes who drank shaving lotion & Metho with Rasberry cordial when the real stuff wasn't at hand !

Trumpster,

Are you finished your "Abo bashing" yet? Its sick that a privileged old bloke like you finds enjoyment in attacking people less fortunate than yourself, even if its only on this little forum. MERRY CHRISTIMAS.

Posted by mhaze-

There's three things we can be certain about in regards to this topic:
1. In a year or three, some group or other will be talking about the still unresolved, and probably worsening, problems with DV in the aboriginal community. 2. They'll marvel that all the changes made this year had little to no effect and will therefore propose that the solution is to spend more money. 3. They'll assiduously avoid address the real cause due to cultural shame.

Answer-

I suspect that this is being used to funnel Australian tax funds off to Marxist causes to engineer society against Australian's.

This is a form of economic warfare I suppose... as below...

Marxist's like to create scarcity/ supply shortages so they can control the people. If they can turn on and off the scarcity like a tap they have even more granular control.

It's interesting how they appear to have achieved control/ influence over egg supply through reformulating "the morality of eggs".

By defining absolute morality standards, they can create a fulcrum to swing society.

In Soviet Russia there was legendary scarcity, with empty shelves and full lines of people, having to decide which children to feed.

Marxist's seem to have an interesting way of balancing contradications, and creating paradox, rather the solving it.

In a sense patents and other intellectual property, for example in pharmaceuticals, can have a similar scarcity effect, to Marxism. But hopefully in an environment where there is competition, multiple products can address a single medical condition. In the patent regimes the competitive protection balances the paradoxical needs of the society- 1. the need for innovation 2. the need for competition. Patents in Australia are capped at twenty years, limiting their competitive protection.

Aboriginal DV is gradually sorting itself by more & more non-indigenous claiming Aboriginality !
Like with so many other society related issues Academia needs to be kept away from them !
Some would really warrant being charged !