Hi Paul,

"BTW; You didn't answer my questions. If Mr Windsor was to enter I would welcome him with the same cordiality that I welcome all people, I see him as my equal, not my superior."

You asked questions related to conventions related to a democratic process by elected officials, and as you observed, whether you follow them or not is your choice to do without fear of repercussion. So how is it then that aoc/wtc has been established by neither legal nor democratic process, yet some people, albeit anecdotally, might even fear for their employment if they don't follow it? I've never seen observance as a condition of employment, but I do find the practice to be coercive. I believe that there should be a senate inquiry into aoc/wtc. It would give us plebs the chance to share experiences via submissions and would establish the practices democratically if met with approval.

Hi Fester,

No, I didn't ask about "conventions" or "democratic process", I asked about personal reaction. I can only assume you would stand and sing 'God Save The King' which is still the protocol when these "royals" are in the presence of other "lesser mortals".Why?

BTW, I don't see a need for a Senate Inquiry into aoc/wtc, as the acceptance of these practices is well established, and supported by the overwhelming majorly of Australians. The calls for Senate Enquiries is way over done.

Hi Paul,

"I don't see a need for a Senate Inquiry into aoc/wtc, as the acceptance of these practices is well established, and supported by the overwhelming majorly of Australians. "

Do you have an opinion poll supporting your contention? Every time I read what the plebs have to say on social media the only thing that's overwhelming are calls for aoc/wtc to cease. Maybe that's another reason why Albo wanted to shut people up with his MAD bill? A Senate hearing fielding public submissions is one of the best ways to give the practice a democratic foundation.

"I can only assume you would stand and sing 'God Save The King' which is still the protocol when these "royals" are in the presence of other "lesser mortals".Why?"

Tell me Paul, where is standing for the national anthem and singing God Save the King a condition of employment or a factor of being considered for promotion? Unlike aoc/wtc, whether you stand or sing, you do so freely and without fear of repercussion. Why do you think Yuyutsu thought the president of his musical group brave for announcing that there would be no more wtc/aoc? Do you think that he might have feared angry responses from the public?

Hi Fester,

If I attend a gathering and there is an opening acknowledgment which recognises Aboriginal land, elders etc I have no particular problem with that, just as I have no problem standing for the national anthem. If I'm in an RSL club I come to attention at 6 o'clock when the Ode Of Remembrance is played, even though I am a pacifist and very much anti-war. p/s I have given a couple of Aboriginal acknowledgments myself over the years, and I'm not aware of anyone jumping up and down about it. I get a very strong anti aboriginal vibe from certain forum contributors, but that's because they are extreme bigots and racist.

BTW, just recently someone was telling me that one place he worked at, a new manager banned morning tea birthday cakes for staff, and later refused a staff Xmas party, both of which had been company practice for years. Seems the new bloke was a JW and demanded that staff respect his religious convictions.

"banned morning tea birthday cakes for staff, and later refused a staff Xmas party"
- That's grounds for staff to go on strike.
Or beter still, organise all workers to go at a snails pace.

Dear Fester,

«Do you know why your group started having wtc, why you continued using it and why you stopped using it? You mentioned that your new president was brave for announcing that you wouldn't do wtc any more. Why was he brave for doing that? Why were you happy when you no longer had to do wtc?»

Sorry, I was not privy to our committee's decision to start and then continue having wtc.
They likely believed (for no real good reason), I guess, that the concert-venue's owner would be upset if we didn't and would no longer let us use that space.

Our new president was brave because he did not fear the possibility of attracting the owner's ire... which never came!

And I'm happy because I no longer need to hear that strident nonsense. We are there to make music, not to discuss land-ownership.

«It is about why a ritual has been coercively introduced into our lives without either a legal or a democratic basis.»

I would still stop short of calling it "coercive" and rather just describe it as "unpleasant" or "discordant".
Look, we have traditions/rituals, like when the conductor enters the stage for the first time we all rise and stand. Nobody ever told us that we MUST stand and nobody ever objected.

«Think of the photo of a group of people giving a Hitler salute and one fellow among them standing with his arms crossed.»

It depends where the photograph is taken:
If it's in a Nazi-party branch, then I would wonder what that fellow is doing there.
I'm most happy to be in my orchestra, totally of my own free will, we elect our committee democratically at our AGM, though I cannot recall there ever been more than one volunteer for a position. Had I been willing to dedicate all this time and effort, I guess I could have been the president myself.

Suppose we were playing a Beethoven symphony and one odd guy played Mozart instead, then I wouldn't support such "democratic expression", but rather agree that his place is not with us!