In last few days there has been discussion on what steps Israel may
take in reply to Iran's rocket attacks.
President Biden said that the US should not make representations to
Iran about their nuclear weapons program.
Iran has announced that Israel will be removed in a few years.
They actually fixed a year, 2029, I think it was.
That sounded like they were hinting at a nuclear attack.
Israel would have to assume that was what they meant.

With that in mind an attack on the nuclear project would have to be on
the list even as Biden has warned Israel off the oil industry and
the nuclear project.
Israel does not admit that they have nuclear weapon(s).
Iran calls Israel a one bomb country. Perhaps they know something.

Whatever the way it goes it has to be a very real worry for us all.

That Iran has a nuclear capability can be fairly laid at the feet of another weak, Leftist President, Barack Obama: the one who is beavering away in the background to get the dreadful Kamala Harris elected.

Iran is set to wipe out Israel by 2029? I think that Israel will have knocked the stuffing out of Iran by them. Iran has always got the terrorists to do their fighting for them; but Israel is steadily working its way through Hezbollah and Hamas.

Half the population of Iran is Persian. They might have somewhere input as well, if they are given support.

Hi Bezza,

Israel needs to seriously think about what its going
to do regarding Iran. There are diplomatic considerations
and serious repercussions.

A strike on Iran's nuclear program as well as a strike on
Iran's oil sector (Iran's economic backbone) would
guarantee an Iranian response and raise the risk of further
escalation.

Such strikes would not only rattle global oil markets. It
would shake the US economy prior to the presidential
election. Bombing Iran's nuclear program would also risk
Iranian retaliation not only against Israel but against
American troops stationed in the region or on Gulf Arab
countries that are aligned with the West.

Disaster all round.

Israeli attacks on Iran has international and global
repercussions.

We should all be concerned.

Lets hope that in Israel cooler heads will prevail.

Mr Netanyahu should be told - "Bomb them if you must -
but Iran's a big place - so you've got a few choices.
Just stay away from Iran's nuclear program and it's
oil sectors ".

So Foxy, put yourself in Israel's position.
Iran has nuclear program well underway, and last I remember reading is
they have enough uranium for 4 weapons almost ready.
For years their motto has been Death to Israel and death to America.
Surely the ability to wipe out Israel will be very tempting.
It will make Iran the leader of the Islamic world, and who would challenge them ?
The US or Britain may retaliate with strikes of their own but that
would be risky as Iran could smuggle a bomb into Britain or the US.
It is a nightmare vision but the Allah of the Koran might approve.
If Iran only demonstrates the bomb it will change everything !
How would you handle this situation ?

The nuclear danger for the world has never been greater. Its clear that the possession of weapons of mass destruction, rather than deter the possibility of annihilation of humanity, simply increases the threat. It would take no more than a moment of madness by one actor, one state, to set off a chain reaction of destruction.

Why do states like Iran and North Korea believe they need to posses nuclear capability? The answer is simple, they feel threatened, and rightly so, by others who already posses such weapons. Nuclear weapons deter no one, if any state thinks they are in a situation, rightly or wrongly, that their very existence is about to be terminated then they will use everything at their disposal, including nuclear weapons, in an attempt to remove that possibility. Remove the weapons and you remove the threat, but has the world gone too far, and nuclear disarmament is no longer possible, me thinks so. PEACE.

Netanyahu knows what he is doing. He has been given an opportunity to deal with Iran once and for all; and he doesn't take advice from amateurs, including Americans, who haven't won a war for nigh on a century. The last time they did, they used two atomic bombs. Do it to them before they do it to you is the way to go.

"Do it to them before they do it to you is the way to go." The rantings of a crazy man, fortunately he is powerless to do anything from his comfortable surrounds of the back blocks of South Australia. Then again he could drop a load of chunder from last night dinner on Iran, and that could set off WWIII.

Hi Paul,

"Nuclear weapons deter no one"

"Remove the weapons and you remove the threat"

How then would you explain Ukraine's surrender of nukes in exchange for peace and protection guarantees, followed by successive encroachments and invasion by Russia?

I wish Australia had nuclear weapons as a deterent. As it is, we don't have a hope in hell of defending ourselves. The apathy of Australians, including those in Canberra, is stunning. And we are stunned. Rabbits in a spotlight.

Hi Fester,

Nuclear disarmament alone does not prevent war, clearly demonstrated by the number of wars during pre-nuclear days. Fortunately conflicts between nuclear armed belligerents today, India/Pakistan and India/China, has thus far not escalated into total all out war. As I said, when a nuclear armed state believes, rightly or wrongly, that its future existence is going to be extinguished then it probably would resort to nuclear weapons, in a last ditched effort to maintain its sovereignty. You ask about Ukraine, had it retained nuclear capability I believe war with Russia would have still taken place. I also believe it would be far more likely that Ukraine would strike a nuclear blow first against Russia, not that the Russians are to "good guys" as Ukraine's sovereignty is in far more danger from Russia than the reverse, then Russia would have retaliated, and who knows what would happen after that.

Good Morning Bezza,

I'm not a military expert however as I stated in my
earlier post - Israel needs calmer heads in its
leadership. Bombing Iran's nuclear program and its
oil sectors I think risks the most dreadful retaliation
from Iran and a third world war. And what would that achieve?

"En eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth?"

In this case the risk is - no eyes or teeth will be left
with a nuclear outcome for anyone.

What would I do?

I would listen to my moderate military advisers. Where
the results would not be so disastrous. Former Israeli
Prime Ministers have advised Netanyahu to "Be smart".
And not bomb Iran's nuclear program or its oil sectors.
Hopefully he will have the intelligence to listen for
everyone's sake.

Thanks Paul,

"had it retained nuclear capability I believe war with Russia would have still taken place"

Isn't that hypothetical thinking? Good to see you thinking that way. As horrible as mad is, note that it is associated with an absence of war, although this conclusion is contested.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/are-nuclear-weapons-keeping-the-india-pakistan-crisis-from-escalating-or-making-it-more-dangerous/

Yet another matter debunking JD's claim of fact checking being simple.

"A strike on Iran's nuclear program as well as a strike on
Iran's oil sector (Iran's economic backbone) would
guarantee an Iranian response and raise the risk of further
escalation."
- Maybe that's exactly what Netanyahu wants.

Force the Iranians to respond in such a way that it forces the U.S. to enter the war against Iran.

A war with Iran and an oil supply crisis would seal Biden's fate at the election and ensure a Trump victory in November.
- Talk about election interference...

But everyone talks about all this as though Israel (tiny dot on the map) can take out Iran (huge nation) and everyone seems to be forgetting Russia and China's part in all this.

They all have strategic partnerships and need each other.
Iran exports most of it's oil to China, so China has skin in the game.
Russia and Iran trade in military components like fighter jets and drones, so Russia also has skin in the game.

"I wish Australia had nuclear weapons as a deterrent"
- Sounds good in theory right?
Until you realise one of those two morons Albo or Dutton would be striding around with the nuclear football in tow.
- I'm not sure either of those two halfwits could actually be trusted with it.

Hi AC,

That's why rational minds are so desperately needed
here.

"That's why rational minds are so desperately needed
here."

Yes, like Kim Jong Un. Fortunately he prefers a life of luxury to nuclear conflict, but it is a harder call for suicide bombers. I suspect that the nuclear threat poses a catastrophic scenario that maintains communication and cooperation between nations to avoid a conflagration.

Hi AC,

Albanese and Dutton are completely sane and rational compared to the bloke who'll be in charge tomorrow Big Dadda TTBN. AND that bloke running North Korea, a very reasonable chap, compared to the mad man who'll be in charge next week. The same goes for the bloke taking over Iran soon, says the present leader is a push over compared him, the new bloke believes the present Ayatollah is a bleeding heart liberal soft-cock, and he don't want that type running the show, bloody soft-cocks!

If Australia should have nuclear weapons so should every other country, more the merrier! America, China, Russia, and all the others should allow for free world trade in nuclear bombs, I'm sure Ethiopia can afford one or two, just little bombs a couple of megs will do, use em' on those black fellas in Eritrea! Oh no it was misdirected and went off in Uganda who recently purchased a couple of bigger bombs from the Pakies, got em' cheap. Oh well, can't get it right all the time, sh!t happens as they say!

Israel needs to, and might intend to, take out all nuclear facilities in Iran, as well as drawing all Islamists into the fight and dealing with them all together.

An ex-professional soldier, now consultant, suggests that Iran should be turned into Pearl Harbour.

Talking about Pearl Harbour?

Even today babies are being born with deformities
as a result of this event and retaliation by the
Americans. Innocents always suffer. Shame on anyone
wishing to inflict this type of warfare. There are
no winners.

Talking about "professional" soldiers?

It all depends on the soldiers involved doesn't it.
Some end up turning mercenaries. Others who were
awarded medals have had the medals taken from
them due to war crimes.

So it all depends.

Whys that Foxy, because they're all breathing in asbestos in Gaza?

Hamas aren't destroyed, and Hezbollah aren't either by any means.
I saw a report this morning about Hamas that said tunnels in Jabalia that were previously disabled by the Israeli army are back in operation, and that the Israeli forces noted that the militants were fighting 'as at the beginning of the ground operation' using cameras and booby traps and 'with a desire to fight' and the 'courage to approach the Israeli forces'. I've seen recent footage of Hamas targeting tanks and armoured vehicles.

Hezbollah fired 100 missiles on Haifa yesterday, and 200 missiles on Safed today, in in ground operations they reported some 34 Israelis killed and 200 injured. They're planning to target a lot more industrial, communications and other infrastructure if Israel continues to escalate.

I'm not sure what Israels plan is.
Certainly they have this whole 'rebuild the Middle East' thing, but I think it's all a bit delusional, on account it doesn't factor in Russia and China, unless they plan to take out Khamenei.

Israel could be planning to hit Iran hard and force them to respond and 'take the bait', so that America is dragged into it.

Dear Paul

What credible threat is there of a nuclear attack on North Korea? Who could possibly want to bother, and why – unless it is to knock out the nuclear capability of a rogue state with a weird leader. Ditto Iran. In both cases, the only reason they may face a nuclear threat, is because they are one.

Brilliantly put Rhian.

A member of the Israeli government said yesterday;
If Israel loses this war, we are all dead !

Hi Rhian and Fester,

Was Japan a nuclear threat when the United States used A-bombs on them? The answer could be, that was a "special case", and the Americans claimed "justification". Well, could another "special case" develop tomorrow also with "justification". The fact is nuclear proliferation does not make the world a safer place, in fact just the opposite. At the moment both North Korea and Iran are under nuclear threat, as we all are. Australia as a bum chum of US imperialism is also under a heighten threat of a nuclear strike. Then there is the thought of a "nuclear winter" for those not directly taken out by such a war.

Twice post WWII have American military nut jobs urged the President to launch a nuclear strike against a non nuclear enemy, MacArthur against North Korea, and Westmoreland against North Vietnam. Who knows what the military nut jobs were telling that fruit cake Kennedy during the Cuban missile crisis, they made the mad man Khrushchev look perfectly sane. Remember, MacArthur at one time was very much in the running to become US President, and that cray nut job would have used nuclear weapons against anyone and everyone, including Mexico and Canada just in a neighbourly gesture!

I wonder if these last few weeks Iran was actually trying to bring America back to the table with the JCPOA, (and had all the components ready to make a nuclear bomb if it chose to) but because of Israels threats to retaliate, Iran has instead changed it's fatwa against nuclear weapons, and is probably right on the edge of making the decision to assemble it, if it hasn't already done so.

If this has happened, I'm sure Russia and China know already and the U.S heavily suspects this to be the case, and likely Iran will retain ambiguity for now as Israel does.

'Well if Israel doesn't have a... "bomb", then we don't have a... "bomb" either'

I hear Netanyahu and Biden had a phone call, and then the U.S. failed to veto an important resolution at the UNSC.
Is Biden is trying to call Netanyahu's bluff?

I also wonder if the Democrats changed their stance towards Israel right now whether it would win them the November election.
Trump has doubled down on support for Israel.

Yes Baz. Whoever said that is very likely to be right. It is said regularly that Israel is on the frontier of Western civilisation's fight against evil. In fact, it is the only country in the fight; the rest of us are too complacent and cowardly; not interested; too woke; too stupid; actually bringing in the enemy to white ant us from within.

The utter bozo (or traitor) Albanese is once again referring to Communist China as our "friend". All cock-a-hoop that they are buying crayfish again. How long, I wonder, before the CCPs huge fishing fleet, with escorts, will be down in our waters, scooping up the things up for themselves - with their "friend", handsome boy Albanese unable to do a thing about it: or not wanting to.

The really awful thing about Australia now, is that the only thing we can do about Albanese is kick him out: but the alternative is not much, if any, better.

We have to start taking our Senate voting more seriously, and electing to it people other than Labor, Liberals or Greens. If that show pony Afghani/Australian can get in with 1600 votes, we should be able to get people in who are actually there for Australia, not Gaza and overseas wars. And, not be dual citizens, as the law requires.

Isn't it lovely and soul-stirring to wake up this
morning, come onto this Forum, and find ourselves
surrounded by comments of so much "love".

Good to see what drives some people in this troubled
world of ours.

On the news this morning - the UN has found that
Israel is trying to destroy the Gaza healthcare system
Which includes bombing hospitals, medical centres,
et ceters.

Israel needs to be given support according to these spreaders
of "love". Israel needs to be able to defend itself
against these "evil" women and children.

Then of course there's the horrible Albanese government.
It should not try to maintain any diplomatic or trade
relations with China. Everybody with any rationality knows
that it's more beneficial to
go back to our former stances - not pursue better relations.
I'm sure our farmers will agree. This will make our economy
thrive - right? And as far as our defence goes - well
we all know that we'll be safe with America's help -
especially if Trump gets elected - right?

What good advice - right?

That horrible Albanese government - should know
who it's real friends are. And only support its friends.
The others? Ban them from our shores. Only allow in those
friendly people who are currently spreading so much "love".
in the Middle Easy.

Great way to wake up in the morning.

Read and learn.

"It is said regularly that Israel is on the frontier of Western civilisation's fight against evil."

We've got 240 million Muslims right next door in Indonesia.
Why are Israel so special?

Lets say Iran gets the bomb.
Then what?

BTW:

My earlier post was a response - and meant as
sarcasm - in case anyone missed it.

AC

Israel is "special" because, like us and the rest of the West, it is a democracy: the only democracy in the Middle East. It is the first line against your billions of Islamic mates.

Hi AC,

I thought you might be interested in what the IDF is finding in Lebanon, which has been around a lot longer than Q-anon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3FFSZHDTTs

Hi Paul,

You gave two examples of generals wanting to use nukes, one over 50 years ago, the other over seventy years ago. Both were overruled by wiser heads. You could have sited numerous recent threats to use weapons of mass destruction, including nukes, by the leaders of a number of countries. My observation of you has indicated a paucity of criticism of authoritarian regimes, terrorists, and advocates of genocide, so I guess that would explain you confining yourself to using examples implicating the Great Satan.

Israel a democracy?

That's what Israel and it's ardent supporters tell the
world.

How can it be a democracy? It has no historical
foundation. And -

The facts are that - a large portion of Israel's
population - the Palestinians -
are subjected to military rule and a draconian system
of control that denies Palestinians
any basic human or civil rights.

Where Local military governors are the absolute rulers of
the lives of these citizens and they can devise special laws,
destroy their houses, their businesses, and their livelihoods.
And send them to jail whenever they like. Whenever they feel like
it.

A Democracy?

Israel is a Jewish state - it's not a democracy

A Greens candidate for the ACT election has announced that she "idolises" Jesus Christ, Joan de Arc, and OSAMA BIN LADEN.

Dear Critic,

«Trump has doubled down on support for Israel.»

Which Israel? Which of the two does he support?

You may be interested in this article, titled: "We have passed the stage of political polarization: Israel is already divided":
http://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/yokra14110274

It is in Hebrew and overall Google-translate does a pretty good job, but it made a gross error, wrongly translating "commemorating" as "of Zion", so here is the crunch of the article:

<<But we need to understand the dispute between Gallant and Netanyahu in a deeper way, which corresponds to the - crazy - fact that on the anniversary of October 7, two commemorating ceremonies were held in Israel. In other words, what is happening in Israel today indicates that we have already passed the stage of political polarization, and we have reached a situation where Israel officially behaves like one country, but in fact has already split into two.>>

Certainly, Biden supports one Israel, Trump supports the other!

Hi Paul
I agree that nuclear proliferation does not make the world a safer place. But your argument seems to be that every country is at risk of nuclear attacks by nuclear armed “nut jobs” and therefore every country is justified in having its own nuclear weapons. Hardly a case for non-proliferation. And as Fester points out, while many countries have had nuclear weapons for decades, and may at times have been tempted to use them, none has actually employed them against an enemy since WW2. Cooler heads prevailed against the "nut jobs". But I fear there are not many cooler heads in Iran and North Korea.

Hi Foxy
According to The Economist Democracy Index – probably the most widely cited measure of countries’ democratic status - Israel is categorised as a “flawed democracy” and ranks 30th in the world - one spot behind the USA (29), but ahead of Portugal (31), Italy (34), and Belgium (36). Iran is categorised as an “authoritarian regime” and ranks 153 out of 167 countries examined. Palestine is also “authoritarian” (115), as is Lebanon (112). No country in the Middle East and North Africa is categorised as a “democracy” except Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index

The University of Würzburg’s “Democracy Matrix” categorises Israel as a “working democracy” and ranks it 35 in the world, one spot above the USA.
http://www.democracymatrix.com/ranking

Freedom House considers Israel “free”
http://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores

Hi Fester and Rhian,

No one can tell who will be in charge of the world "next week" certainly not in the years to come. I'm not justifying anyone arming themselves with nuclear weapons, only one aspect of world dismemberment. Fester, I look over my lifetime and the greatest threat to world peace is United States, their record speaks for itself, did they choose to be the great belligerent power, probably not, but they did become so. As for a "paucity of criticism of authoritarian regimes, terrorists, and advocates of genocide," lets call out Russia, Ukraine, China, Taiwan, Korea, Hamas, Hezbollah, Israel etc, etc, etc the list is very long, even Australia in our own way is a risk, we support militarism, and have a very poor record. I not only believe in nuclear disinterment, I also believe in non alignment, treaties have shown that they are a catalyst for war, and not a deterrent.

I think I've reached a point where the dead women and kids have taken a toll.
I no longer care what happens to Israel, if they attack Iran I hope Iran responds with great force and really punches Israel in the throat repeatedly.
If Israel attacks Iran's nuclear facilities, then I hope Iran launches a strike on Dimona.
If Israel launches a strike on Iran's refineries or or powerplants I hope Iran hits back twice as hard on Israels refineries and powerplants, and sends them back to the stone age.
If there's any good decent people in Israel they should leave.

Hi Paul,

The world is so complicated. I've long given up the idea of seeing things as good vs evil as I think the mindset will often result in people being mislead and thrown into conflict. Accepting that people will have a wide range of opinions on things, and the views held bear little or no relevance in defining them as good or bad, leaves me with a far more optimistic outlook.

On the subject of the Americans using atom bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, you might note that nearly 250,000 Japanese were killed in the invasion of Okinawa. There is a view that the use of those weapons saved a great many lives. America was not the Great Satan as portrayed by imperial propaganda. Losing the war resulted in Japan becoming an independent, benevolent, and prosperous democracy.

Japan Asks America For PERMISSION To Save Its Currency As The Strong Dollar Wrecks Everything
http://youtu.be/yXVLutqSNHs

Sovereign countries don't need to ask for other countries permission Fester...

Japanese Cabinet Approves Largest Ever Defense Budget
http://news.usni.org/2023/12/22/japanese-cabinet-approves-largest-ever-defense-budget

The Japanese are on their way back, with Americas bombs and their approval.

Hi Fester and Rhian,

Must agree; "The world is so complicated", nothing is black and white, there is so much grey. Unfortunately simplistic politicians try to present things in black and white terms with their home spun simple solutions, which in reality never work. Both super powers failed the world post WWII, their own interests become paramount over all other. America believed the direct application of militarism was the answer, and applied it at will to serve their strategic purposes. The Soviets believed subversion through third parties served their interests. Both systems failed million of people, instead of promoting peace and development, they simply promoted their own interests, be it a war in a place like Vietnam by the Americans, or the subversion and stagnation of Eastern Europe by the Soviets.

One thing about the Cold War period is that Soviet Communism feared American Capitalism far more than the reverse. America was always far superior to the Soviets both militarily and economically, America had far greater capacity to exert world dominance, than the "enemy". The Soviets "go it alone" policy of recovery post war created a huge amount of internal problems for them, and they were never really in a position to take on America, thankfully for us, they avoided direct involvement in America's endless wars.

Hi AC,

"Sovereign countries don't need to ask for other countries permission Fester..."

Yes they do. Japan does a lot of trade with the United States, so devaluing the Yen gives them a trading advantage. They probably have contractual agreements that oblige them to seek agreement before making such changes.

"The Japanese are on their way back, with Americas bombs and their approval."

I'm not surprised. With China's development of its military the region needs a balance of power. I'd imagine that the Japanese are also wary as the Chinese still hate them for the unprovoked invasion and mass slaughter when Japan was a fascist empire.