Jillian Segal has been appointed by the Albanese
Government as an "envoy for antisemitism."

She has criticized ceasefire calls in Gaza and has defended
the bombing of hospitals. Does her strong stance on issues --
make her appointment questionable?

Do we really need an "envoy for antisemitism"?

What about an "envoy for Islamophobia" ?

And who would the Government choose for that position?

Dear Foxy,

I think that I once already told the Jewish story about the wise men of Chelm and the snow over these pages, but let me quote it again:

"Every time it snowed, the people would complain that, although the snow was beautiful, they could not see it in its pristine state because by the time they got up in the morning, the shammes (synagogue clerk) had already trekked through the snow [to call the people for the morning prayer]. The townspeople decided that they had to find a way to be woken up for minyan (prayer quorum) without having the shammes making tracks in the snow.
The people of Chelm hit on a solution: they got four volunteers to carry the shammes around on a table when there was fresh snow in the morning. That way, the shammes could make his wake up calls, but he would not leave tracks in the snow"
(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wise_Men_of_Chelm)

- Likewise, an envoy for antisemitism would only be creating more antisemitism. Nevertheless, that office would help government to claim as if it acts adamantly against antisemitism...

Do you think Biden is running the show?

All the Jews Biden has tapped for top roles in his new administration
http://www.timesofisrael.com/all-the-jews-biden-has-tapped-for-top-roles-in-his-new-administration/

'I am a Zionist': How Joe Biden's lifelong bond with Israel shapes war policy
http://www.reuters.com/world/us/i-am-zionist-how-joe-bidens-lifelong-bond-with-israel-shapes-war-policy-2023-10-21/

They know that what they're doing right now, what they are continuing to do - facilitating the murder of thousands of women and kids, will result in innocent Jews facing the worst antisemitism ever.

This is damage control by your masters who wish to continue the genocide.

Hi Foxy,

I see it as sop to the politically powerful Australian Jewish community. An attempt to deflect criticism that the Labor government is pro Palestinian, which it defiantly is not. In light of what Segal has said, I consider her a Zionist, first and foremost. An "envoy for Islamophobia", don't agree with that either, if there must be one how about the government appoint Jillian Segal to that position as well, now that would make the Zionist happy.

I can't understand how so many people are dismissive of the deaths of 40,000 innocent men, women and children in Gaza at the hands of the Zionists. Just as modern day Nazi's are dismissive of the deaths of 6,000,000 innocent people, murdered by those of their ilk 80 years ago, cries of denial and "just get over it!", make me sick.

I'm not sure that having envoys is a bad thing. I believe
in at least trying to build bridges instead of walls.
And if both the Jewish communities and the Muslim
communities here in Australia could develop dialogues
perhaps their influences just may spread.

At least it's worth a try?

The anti- feelings in both the Jewish and Muslim communities
are very strong at present. Each blaming the other. Getting
them to communicate could be a step in the right direction
and perhaps create a better understanding all round.

Doing nothing should not be an option - because it only makes
things worse - if things continue as they are .

This soon to be proven useless woman just had to add a meaningless-to-her ‘job’ (if you could call it a job) ‘acknowledgement of country’ to show how wonderfully virtuous she is.

All she will do is hoover up more taxpayer money, and enjoy a trip to Argentina on the taxpayer.

Will she:

. Condemn the anti-Semitism tolerated by the bloke who has given her the job
. Condemn the universities who have permitted anti-Semitic riots on campuses
. Condemn the anti-Israel policies and actions of Australia's Foreign Minister
. Call for the arrest and deportation of hate-preaching Mullahs against the law

No. Ms. Segal will just be another useless addition to Australia's burgeoning, hideously expensive public swamp (there is no public “service”).

As for adding another ‘envoy’ for “Islamophobia”, that would be even more ridiculous. There is no equivalent to anti-Semitism: no demonstrations, no hate speech against Muslims from the pulpit.

A similar unnecessary post for Muslims could only advantage Albanese, who is shaking in his shoes that the Muslim vote might put him into minority government, having to rely on the Greens, that other bunch of anti-Semites who won't be mentioned by Segal either.

ttbn,

Will you mention that bunch of far right extremists, you know who they are, they have a very long track record of anti-Semitism. It was far right extremists who murdered 6 million Jews, can't get more anti-Semitic than that.

Jillian Segal is a past president of the Executive Council
of Australian Jewry (ECAJ). An umbrella organization for
more than 200 Jewish organizations across Australia. It has
a broad reach and more members than any other Jewish
community organizations. It's influence is vast.

We should note that some Jewish voices have opposed the
ECAJ and its positions in its support of the military
operations in Gaza which Jillian Segal has publicly defended
and endorsed multiple times.

It's for this reason that smaller Jewish community
organizations like the Jewish Council of Australia have
criticized Segal's appointment saying it "risks breeding
divisions."

There's another point of contention - and that is - whether
anti-Israel policy positions should be considered antisemitism.

There have been criticisms that criticizing Israel's policies
is not antisemitism but an attempt to silence legitimate
criticism of Israel. As we know - this debate is highly
contentious - just like the envoys themselves - whether
they are - antisemitism or anti Islamophobia.

These envoys are not an invention of the Albanese government.
For example - Canada has a special representative for combating
Islamophobia and earlier this year the UN General Assembly
requested a special envoy to combat Islamophobia.

It serves no one's purpose to pit antisemitism and
Islamophobia against each other. Both are manifestations
of hate and are often perpetrated by the same individuals.

The war in Gaza complicates these matters and navigating
all the complexities is precisely what the Antisemitism and
Anti-islamophobia Envoys will need to do.

Keeping politics out of it all will not be an easy task.

It will be interesting to see who the government will appoint
as the anti-Islamophobia Envoy.

Albanese has been described as “the fireman who arrives with his hose after the building has been reduced to a pile of ash”. The fire started long ago in the woke universities, fanned by Green Senators in Parliament.

Albanese said, “We have seen since October 7 last year a significant rise in anti-Semitism in Australia, and that is why the Government has made the decision to appoint a special envoy on anti-Semitism.”

He admits that anti-Semitism has been raging for 9 months before his dubious attempt to do something about it!

What will this taxpayer-funded bureaucrat “advise” Albanese on?

Will she advise him to activate the hate-speech laws that already exist, but which he has ignored?

How much advice does an elected leader need to actually lead?

How many committees will this extra snout in the public trough set up. How many extra snouts to advise a leader who should have the brains and decency to act for himself. None, if we had such a leader.

Albanese's gutlessness and fear has backfired on him in the form of a Muslim Senator acting as ‘the member for Gaza’, a bunch of foreigners with nothing to do with Australia.

Don't be surprised if we have umpteen ‘envoys’ for the umpteen minorities in Australia, just because this boofhead Albanese can't call out anti-Semitism without other ‘victims’ looking for attention.

That’s divisive identity politics for you. Albanese is an expert on it.

I don't believe that what the government is trying to do
is simply a vote-catcher. I'm trying to remain more
positive that this is a determination to confront the
problem of division and hate in our communities and an
attempt to ensure that it doesn't erode the goodness
that exists among so many.

Surely, it's a sensible move to take any attacks from
both sides of this conflict seriously and try to deal with
it by taking action?

We've seen from what happened in Christchurch. We've even
had vandalism with spray paint here - including even at
the Australian National Korean War Memorial and the
Australian Vietnam Forces National Memorial in Canberra.

We can't just ignore these acts. Not when this reaches
our shores.

The Middle East conflict has deeply affected
communities in Australia.

The appointment of Jillian Segal as Special Envoy to
combat antisemitism in Australia is part of the
government's efforts to ensure that all Australians
feel safe and included.

The duties of this Special Envoy will be - to listen to
and engage with the Jewish Australians, the wider
Australian community, religious experts, and all levels
of government on the most effective way to combat
antisemitism.

The federal government will also appoint a Special Envoy
for combating Islamophobia and the details will be
announced shortly.

Anti-Semites/Israel-Haters have been blockading Weakanese's electoral office for 8 months, and he hasn't done a thing about it. He can't even use the office; it is not staffed.

What a wimp! He doesn't think much of the people in his electorate either. They don't have access to the office. They need to bear that in mind at the next election. They don't deserve such a cowardly MP, and Australia doesn't deserve such a cowardly PM.

His declaration there is ‘no place in a democracy for intimidation’ is an admission that he feels intimidated by the anti-Semitic thugs - too intimidated to do anything about them.

Perhaps he is waiting for the female midget he has appointed as ‘envoy’ to slip around to his office and sort them out - before she jets off to Argentina.

Poor Bubba Albo looks weaker and sillier by the day.

ttbn,

Even the protesters are demanding Albo reopen his electoral office in Marrickville, the coppers tell Albo it might not be safe to do so, the protesters say they'll be peaceful if he does open it. I agree its a bit wimppy on Albo's part.

I see Turnballs has been bucketing on Mr Potato Head again, said he's a "bloody thug not fit to be PM", he sure don't like Dud for stabbing him in the back as he did.

I believe that the creation of these roles shows
a determination by the government to confront this
problem of division and hate in our communities and
try to ensure that it doesn't erode the goodness
that exists in our societies.

We have to take any violence and attacks on either
side of this conflict that has now reached our shores
seriously and act upon it.

The government is doing its best to control the situation
and try to calm things down. Not create further opportunities
for more violence.

Hi Paul,

My recommendation for the position of an anti-Islamophobia
Envoy would be Dr Susan Carland. An academic and author.
She teaches at Monash University. She converted to Islam
at the age of 19, from a Christian Baptist background.
She's a Sunni Muslim - and is a strong advocate for
women in Islam. She's been a TV presenter - and has tact
and diplomacy. She's also a beautiful person - inside
and out. And is married to Waleed Aly.

Hi Foxy,

But, we have an abundance of Islamophobia experts right here on the forum, anyone of them could be appointed the Grand Poobah, ttbn, mhaze, Indy, Bezza, CM take your pick. Make it a political appointment 'The Lovely Pauline', Anti-Islamophobia Envoy! She has her own bukhari, don't need to buy her one, she got it online from Ebay Arabia.

Hi Paul,

The government is looking to appoint an ANTI - Islamophobia
Envoy.

Hi Foxy,

But, my list is very Anti, a matter of fact if you need any Anti anything my fellas are the boys for the job. They are very positive people, you name it and they're positively against it...women, workers, gays, minorities, progressives, etc, etc and of course etc!

It isn't just Australian Jews who are at risk. It is all Australians of all religions and none.

A 2015 Pew Research Centre study forecast a global surge in the Muslim population, with Australia and New Zealand among the nations expected to see the biggest rises. It is estimated the number of Muslims in Australia will grow four times more quickly than non-Muslims over the next 20 years.

I was reminded of this Arab expression in an article I read today: “First we come for the Saturday people, then we come for Sunday people.”

And it is our own political class that is planting Muslims among us; the same political class that has turned a blind eye to the Islamic threat because they actually want the Muslim vote!

The fools still think that Muslims came here to adopt our values and be just like us, when they want us to be like them, or perish when the right time (for them) comes.

How are we to fight this Muslim menace if the white Aryan race is to survive? The answer is simple, we must call upon our most virile to "procreate or perish"! ttbn are you up to the task? The pure of blood Anglo race is counting on YOU, twenty times a day for the next twenty years, that what's required, that should multiply the number by twenty million. We just have to keep plugging away at it!

Hi Paul,

Many people in all sorts of societies and cultures don't
like others who are "different." It often becomes a
"them" and "us," in societies. People tend to be more
comfortable with their own kind.

However, in our country - things started to change, admittedly,
slowly at first, but a shift began to happen step by step
to fill labour shortages - both unskilled and later skilled.

Then Australia signed up to humanitarian international intakes
and began accepting refugees and minorities fleeing persecution.
This brought in of course many from conflict areas such as
the Middle East, Asia, and Africa.

Developing strategies for these people to settle in - has been
challenging and not always successful - but our governments
continue to keep trying. All in all - we haven't done too badly.

Of course there are fundamentalists within all groups - but
this does not mean that we should build walls between us.
That's why attempting to resolve things by our governments is
important.

Haters and nay sayers, unfortunately do exist in our communities.
But although many probably are incapable of change - they
thankfully are a tiny minority - and will eventually end up on
the ash heap of history.

They come onto forums like this one - where they are anonymous
and where they can spew their toxicity - which they probably
wouldn't do face-to-face.

In any case - they wait for reactions - and see themselves as
key-board warriors. Let them enjoy their moments - but lets
not take them too seriously. Most Aussies aren't like that.
Especially the younger generations. Our future lies with them.
And educating our future generations is key - if we want a
cohesive society.

I'm sure that all of us encounter problems with different
people on a daily bases. My younger son has a problem with
Chinese drivers - whose driving behaviour drives him nuts.

Then we have "culturally diverse" people - such as Indian
women in banks or post-offices - who will go to the front
of the waiting lines - to be served first. And get very stroppy
when told -" go to the end of the line please, there's people
here who are ahead of you and have been waiting a longer time."

They get very indignant.

But their behaviour needs to be pulled up and corrected.
Not tolerated. Politely but firmly.

As I( said - little by little things can change. It's up to
us to do so.

The threat of Muslim voters might force Labor to be more careful about who it allows to migrate to Australia or seek asylum.

Labor is in between a rock and a hard place. If it gets back at the next election, it will be because of the Greens; and most Labor politicians despise the Greens as much, if not more, than everyone else does.

On top of that, there are two Muslim organisations flapping their wings.

No matter the sins of the previous LNP government, Labor was not fit for government (shades of the UK). Since it has been in government, it has doubled down on that ‘unfitness’. Australia is in a much bigger mess now than it has ever been, thanks to the worst government in living memory.

The worst government in living memory?

This opinion is a subjective one.

Many would suggest the Abbott Government as the worst
government in living history.

Abbott sailed in on the back of an unelectable ALP crippled
by their internal strife and unable to govern.

He traded on slogans, fear
(stop the boats - terrorists everywhere) and unashamed pandering
to corporate media and interests as well as religious interests.

He became a laughing stock in both international circles and
domestically with the Prince Philip knighthood.

He managed to prove every one of his critics right. Abbott and
most of his frontbenchers were prepared to ride roughshod
over the Constitution, international treaties, human rights,
and the rule of law if it served their or their vested
backers' interests.

Abbott's government was out of step with moderate Australia.
We can only hope that at the next
election moderates on all sides of politics can come together
for the future of our nation - instead of allowing the
radical and dysfunctional members
to continue selling our country to the highest bidder.

Hi Paul,
"An attempt to deflect criticism that the Labor government is pro Palestinian, which it defiantly is not."
Of course they're not.
The fact they openly have a riff with a Muslim female senator over the issue shows they have other loyalties to consider.

"I can't understand how so many people are dismissive of the deaths of 40,000 innocent men, women and children in Gaza at the hands of the Zionists."
- Years from now, people in the future will look back at and study these events, and ask themselves why on earth did the western world and its people which claimed to promote and support humanitarian ideals just stand by and do nothing?
- Powerful Israel lobby, stupid evangelicals giving silent consent / support, gutless bought-and-paid-for media, and above all:

A stupid idea that has virtually become a religion unto itself.
Should detecting and identifying 'Antisemitism' now be considered a religion all of its own?
A universal law that bans all criticism of a single nation and people.

It's retarded.
What if I created a new religion that was focused around the idea of non criticism of television?

'anti-television'

Anytime anyone gets angry at something on the TV, I will say 'You're anti-television!'.

And I'll go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on FOREVER

Until people are mentally trained that you just DON'T EVER EVER EVER CRITICISE TELEVISION.

- Quick everyone, lay on the ground in the fetal position and try not to pee yourselves.
Daring to criticise the genociders might be considered antisemitic!
And don't you all know THATS WRONG?

Education is key to be able to tell the difference
between fact and fiction. But if you happen to have
a small screen - you'll never be able to see the bigger
picture. Unfortunately.

The problem with education is it makes some think they have all the answers, and therefore they have the right to tell others what to do!

We're all entitled to informed opinions. Opinions
based on facts. Evidence-based. We're not entitled to
ill-informed opinions. Nobody is entitled to be ignorant.

In business they say that even if a business looks good on paper you have to listen to your gut.

In democracy people have a right to decide what they believe is in their self interest even if some authority says that they are wrong.

Ben Goldacre says that authority is the weakest form of evidence because it's so easily faked.

Animal's and human's have an evolved finely tuned sense of danger, sometimes human's rely too much on logic. Both are important. Ethos (ethics), logos (reason), telos (purpose), pathos (feeling) are Aristotle's forms of argument from memory.

Education and academics can revert to scientism. Science is descriptive without ethics.

The Academy has been corrupted by Marxism and 'useful idiot' Woke-ism- and replaced 'free inquiry' with 'political correctness'.

Evidence is important in certain contexts- but it seems to be less relevant in our kangaroo courts.

Dear Foxy,

«We're all entitled to informed opinions. Opinions
based on facts. Evidence-based.»

Even then, "I wish so" is a fact like any other, and is self-evident.

When God said, "Let there be light", He had no objective evidence, His will was sufficient to form that opinion.

Hi Yuyutsu,

Why do you refer to God as male? There is no God, male or otherwise in the bodily sense. One might get away with describing God in a spiritual sense, If God is to exist at all, then God exists within the human sprite. The concept of God as being indistinguishable from the human sprite is more difficult to understand than the old man with a white beard (a physical god) concept. Its all the godly treats, love, compassion, kindness, forgiveness, etc that makes up the spiritual god. people bring God down by giving "him" human characteristics.

Dear Paul,

In order to be understood, I need to address each person according to their own understanding, culture and faith. My previous post was addressed to Foxy, not to you, and had it been addressed to you then I would have used a completely different language.

Anyway, the point of my post was that opinions need not rely on empirical material evidence, that it is OK to base opinions on one's will alone, because will precedes matter, not vice-versa.

Whose will? What anyway is "will"? How does it relate to matter?
That indeed is a fascinating topic, but which hardly fits into a discussion about the appointment of an envoy for Anti-Semitism.

When forming personal convictions we often interpret
factual evidence through the filter of our beliefs,
values, feelings, ideologies, tastes, and past
experiences. Hence most statements that we make are
assertions of fact, opinion, belief, or prejudice.

A fact is verifiable, and an opinion is a judgement
usually based on verifiable facts - or it should be.

An opinion is of course potentially changeable, depending
on how the evidence is presented, and as new facts come
to light.

By themselves, opinions have little power to convince.
Because we need to let others know what our evidence is
and how it led us to arrive at our opinions.

Dear Foxy,

So far so good - your last post is the opinion of H. Ramsey Fowler.

But earlier you added your own opinion that "We're not entitled to
ill-informed opinions. Nobody is entitled to be ignorant."

Such ill-informed opinions may indeed, as Fowler mentioned, "have little power to convince", but in my humble opinion, the lack of ability to convince others does not constitute a privilege to deny other people's freedom of thought, which includes their freedom to have ill-informed opinions and/or to remain ignorant.

So if you opine as above, that "We're not entitled...", then where is your evidence for that?

Yuyutsu,

There are plenty of examples of ignorance and being
ill-informed in our daily lives. I'm sure that you
have encountered them. We all have - we've all seen
a lack of knowledge or information in many areas and
on many subjects and issues.

Of course there's also wilful ignorance which
basically amounts to not wanting to be informed or
apprised of certain things.

There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity.
Stupidity shows a lack of a good sense of judgement.

My objection to being ignorant - and ill-informed is
you can be manipulated. And that's something most
of us would wish to avoid for ourselves and our children
and grand-children

See you on another discussion.

Cheers.

Dear Foxy,

There are areas of life which I choose to be ignorant of,
which I don't know anything about nor want to know anything about,
where I have the opinion that it is all rubbish and
so I will not allow others to convert my mind into a garbage bin.

One example is sports: I don't want to know who is out there playing, I don't want to know their rules, I don't want to know who is winning or losing - when they talk about them on the radio, I close my ears or change the station.

Don't you have such areas yourself, which you choose to be ignorant of?
(how to produce bombs, explosives and poisons, perhaps?)
(or maybe for you it is, how to fix locomotive engines?)

Yesterday (Saturday, 13 July 2024 4:15:11 PM) you claimed "Nobody is entitled to be ignorant": are you still of the view then that people ought to be forced to learn things they don't want to know about, that it should be forcefully pushed down their ears?

Yuyutsu,

Acquiring knowledge and information is not available to
everyone as we know. But to those of us lucky enough to
be able to seek it - it is a choice and a privilege.

If you don't want to be informed or apprised of certain
things - that's your choice. No one is forcing you to
do so.

My preference is to be informed - to broaden my education,
to learn. And this is a life-long aim. The older I get, the
more I realize how much there is to learn.

See ya.

Hi Yuyutsu

"opinions need not rely on empirical material evidence"

I agree with that, opinions are often subjective, with no rational logic behind them. If I say "Chocolate ice cream is the best ice cream" that's an opinion with no empirical evidence to support it. Much as one believes in the existence of a God, that is deemed to be a faith in God, not a fact supported by evidence, although many believers try to create facts to support their belief, its simply extrapolation on the part of the believer. Not having a valid explanation, the believer simply creates an explanation that satisfies them. The best example with a belief in God, is when the believer says; "Look at the wonders of nature, that God has created", the believer doesn't know how the wonders of nature were created, to satisfy their belief they attribute it to God as if its a fact, not so.

Dear Paul,

Chocolate ice cream is made of cocoa, eggs, cream, sugar, water, etc.
They in turn are made of molecules, mainly organic compounds.
These in turn are made of atoms - carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, etc.
Atoms are made of protons, neutrons and electrons.
These are made of more elementary particles - bosons, quarks, neutrinos, gluons, etc.
Through Einstein's general relativity theory, we know that all the above are made of energy.

The ancient sages knew that matter is made of energy, and also tell us that energy is made of thought, then also some thoughts are made of deeper thoughts, yet ultimately, the deepest thoughts are made of God - there is nothing else but God.

That is what I meant earlier when I said that "will precedes matter, not vice-versa". That is why it is OK for opinions to rely on thoughts rather than on empirical evidence, thoughts coming earlier in the chain of creation.

Now when someone adores chocolate ice cream, they worship God in the form of chocolate ice cream. Well and good, if for the time being chocolate ice cream is the only form of God they recognise, that reminds them of God, then so be it. God can be found everywhere, in all possible forms: later on, they could be short of chocolate ice cream and pray for more, or they may get too much of it and start worshipping God in the form of pistachio ice cream - no problem, God is there too and both those who rejoice in Chocolate ice cream and those who rejoice in pistachio ice cream, find joy in God, the source of all joy!

Hi Paul,

You can't argue with someone whose beliefs are based on
faith and who thinks there is only one answer.

There are many religions, many versions of the
Bible, and many gods and god-like entities throughout history.
It makes sense that when someone thinks there is only one
answer - to simply walk away because we both know that there's
another billion perspectives.

Hi
Hi Yuyutsu,

"The ancient sages knew that matter is made of energy, and also tell us that energy is made of thought, then also some thoughts are made of deeper thoughts, yet ultimately, the deepest thoughts are made of God - there is nothing else but God."

I question the ancient sages extrapolation that "energy is made of thought" and then the quantum leap that; "the deepest thoughts are made of God - there is nothing else but God." I believe that deep thoughts are made by the 'Giant Pumpkin' and there is nothing else but the 'Giant Pumpkin'. Like St Paul this was revealed to me in a dream by the 'Giant Pumpkin' after a heavy night of drinking.

Please do not reply disputing the 'Giant Pumpkin', as it has been reviled, and as it is written in the 'Book Of Cyril' "He who doth question the 'Giant Pumpkin' be a blasphemer, and he that doth question the 'Giant Pumpkin' but twice the 'Giant Pumpkin' shall smite thy blasphemer to the eternal firers of Hell." Now that's rather hot stuff, so lets not get into blaspheming the 'Giant Pumpkin'. Agreed?