"If anyone wants to know where uncontrolled immigration is likely lead us"

Who is talking of uncontrolled migration? Fact is I think that you
don't have the foggiest as to what is happening in WA, which
covers about a third of Australia, with only 10% of the population.

Yet that 10% generates 40-50% of Australia's exports, something
you should be thrilled about, given you Eastern Staters are unable
to pay your own bills.

Like it or not, those export $ are required, so that you can maintain
your living standards and those industries need labour. If Eastern
Staters don't want the jobs, then 457s make perfect sense and
are a win-win all round. That is quite different to "uncontrolled
migration" and the panic about population in SE Qeensland.

I still maintain that WA should secede, we'd be better off without
you lot :)

Daggett, because you have read a book about the American food
industry, does not mean that you know anything about the meat industry
in WA. Have you ever been in a modern meatworks? I doubt it.

Next you'll be complaining about the live sheep trade too. What
do you want? That we dig a big hole, shoot the livestock and
bury them?

We really live in a whole different country over here, with a whole
different set of problems. The more I read on this forum,
the more I realise that most you don't have the foggiest about
the situation in WA. 457s might not suit SE Queensland, but
they are ideal for a go ahead state like West Australia, where
overpopulation is just not an issue

Belly, the figure of 26,000 employed in the coal mining industry came from Professor Ian Lowe in an interview on "Late Night Live" Thursday 13 September. Program details are at: http://www.abc.net.au/rn/latenightlive/stories/2007/2032396.htm

No doubt, he would have obtained this figure from the Australian Bureau of Statistics. Such a figure would be consistent with statistics that I have heard throughout the years. I remember being constantly amazed at how small the mining workforces actually were. I recall around 1992 reading an ABS publication that the entire mining workforce in Tasmania was little more that 2,000.

Possibly Lowe's figure may not have included those who transport coal or port workers, but the figure strikes me as surprisingly small given that this sector is booming at the moment.

---

Yabby, real immigration figures, as opposed to official figures are 300,000.

This was revealed in Ross Gittins' article of 12 June 2007 "Back Scratching at a National Level" at http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/backscratching-at-a-national-level/2007/06/12/1181414298095.html

It is widely acknowledged that a major factor in Howard winning Government in 1996 was the unpopularity of Labor's high immigration program. That is why immigration was cut back to 68,000 in Howard's first year. Does anyone need reminding, opposition to high immigration was a key factor in Howard's re-election in 2001? Who can forget his words, "We decide who comes to this country, and the circumstances in which they come."?

Yet in spite of Howard's obviously disingenuous undertaking, immigration has since rocketed to 300,000 with even sex workers having been admitted to the country with section 457 visas.

In "Mind the traffic" in the Spring 2007 edition of Dissent Magazine (http://www.dissent.com.au), Melody Kemp wrote, "I have met people wearing dark glasses in Bangkok, who told me that traffickers can pass readily through Australia's porous coastal boundaries, inserting workers into far-flung regional settlement where official eyes and ears less perceptive and employers eager for labour."

So, yes it seems to me that that the fears that we are losing control of immigration are very well grounded.

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(continuedfromabove)

If episodic labour shortages cause problems for part of the economy from time to time, then why can't the Government simply withhold approval for the odd mining project here and there until these are rectified without resorting to panic measures which are destroying our social fabric, and threatening our own environment as well as the world's?

In a previous generation, Australia did very well, indeed, on a much lower resource basis. By March 1942, even before their defeat at the naval Battle of the Coral Sea, the Japanese Army had vetoed the Japanese navy's Plan to invade Australia, because they realised just how technologically advanced this country was. (I wrote about this on the forum discussion "View discussion Can Australia ever be self-reliant for national defence?" at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=860)

Since then we have become a much stupider country and have lost the edge that we had back then. Our manufacturing base has been exported to slave wage economies and our prosperity now depends upon real estate and flogging off our finite non-renewable mineral bounty.

My point about the meat industry stands. Many US meatworkers, both native and immigrant, now work as slaves. This is already largely true for many Australian workers today, as described in Elisabeth Wynhausen's "Dirt Cheap" of 2005 and the same fate lies ahead for many more Australian workers unless we put a stop to it now.

I think all those neoliberal economists who, back in the 1980's and 1990's, foretold so stridently of what an immensely prosperous future that globalisation and economic 'reforms' would bring, have a lot of explaining to do.

"then why can't the Government simply withhold approval for the odd mining project here and there"

Australia is still running a huge current account deficit and you
want to hold up exports? Are you crazy? The NW of WA is the
one place going ahead in leaps and bounds, gas projects everywhere
so that there are alternatives to coal, just no workers. Highly
paid workers at that! Do you want a banana republic Daggett?
Your policies are surely the way to make one.

Yes, Australia did well earlier, as people worked hard and the
country rode on the sheeps back. Nylon had not been invented yet.
The world has changed, get used to it!

Now Australia has it so good that some people don't see a need to
get out of bed and work for a living. John Hewson made a great point
last night on ABC tv. 30 years ago we'd buy a table, then some
chairs, a bed, slowly accumulating assets. Now people want the 4by2
house, with a pool and plasma, all instantly! Expectations have
changed, thats the big difference.

Working on a meatchain for 40 grand is slave labour? Daggett, you
get on your little bike and go see the real world out there.
The few Chinese etc who have been granted 457s, think this is
heaven on a plate!

Europe thrives and has thrived on seasonal contract workers. Once
they have made their money, they go home. Once
economies achieve a certain wealth, the locals don't want to do
the so called crappy jobs, they'd rather sit in front of a computer.
They have had life far too easy and I blame the parents.

If you don't want migrants in the East so fair enough, say so,
but don't hold up WA and our exports, as all those tax dollars
being sent over to you, happen for a reason, our performance
here in West Australia. 457s in West Australia make perfect
sense for everyone in Australia. Don't crap on the goose which
lays your golden eggs, so that you can live comfortably in
ingnorant bliss.

Ruddy hell daggert you draw a long bow! this welded on ALP voter only too well knows the issue was boat people not immigration.
We want a say in who comes here and how was indeed the slogan but what rubbish to see it as migration.
Let our xenophobic friend from the west withdraw if they want but it is in fact true WE DO NOT HAVE THE WORKERS we must import them ,in my view at fair pay.
I see no reason we should say workers shortage is a reason for under paying imported ones .slavery is dead isn't it?
And I have worked in those slaughter houses, have had many jobs, unlike some who are work shy, any work any job I today would do it again rather than feed on the public purse until I had no other choice.
We do, do we not? as Australians want a say in migration?
My wish would be for only , sorry yes only ,those who both value our culture while keeping their own come.
That children from these family's would not be told to hate us from childhood.
We will develop our country and export its goods or in truth some one else will.

Truly is hard to believe any one can say only 26,000 work in the coal mining industry, do not place too much value on some peoples figures.
Those who make the mining gear, the tyers, the massive trucks, the trains, the coal loaders and those who work in each.
Those who transport and those who feed the miners are employed in that industry.
Coal is by no means the only mining we do, in fact if overnight this country closed its mining, or could not sell its products?
Third world country instantly and forever.
Yabby rightly points out our balance of payments is in a very bad way, future trouble assured.
And part of the problem is skills shortage/ labour shortage.

Australia must see that before we all suffer.