The Albanese government and Foreign Minister Penny Wong have gambled with their integrity and accountability by reinstating Australia’s funding of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, an organisation heavily discredited in terms of its relations with Hamas.

UNRWA has for decades used a UN fig leaf of respectability to divert aid for Gazans directly to Hamas and has used the money given for charity to buy weapons and to line the pockets of senior members of Hamas.

Thus every citizen of Australia is indirectly funding terrorists.

The far right will make these kinds of claims without evidence from time to time. A thorough independent investigation into the claim that terrorist are being financed/funded by the UNRWA have, time and again, been shown to be baseless. If there is evidence the poster above should, put it up!

Just think of the Gaza toddlers stopping Israeli bullets.

Which is worse, the Israeli Army's offensive or UNRWA feeding kids?

Pauliar,

There is plenty of proof that UNRWA and Hamas are closely knit including several UNRWA employees being directly involved in the genocidal attack on Israel. The level of proof is sufficient for most civilised countries to block aid until UNRWA decoupled itself from Hamas.

The lie that this has been shown to be baseless shows just how morally bankrupt you are. Perhaps you should put up proof of your claims.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/blinken-says-evidence-of-unrwa-staffers-oct-7-involvement-highly-highly-credible/

Of course, there is precisely NO evidence that will convince the Hamas cheer-squad. Any offered evidence, no matter how conclusive, will be rejected as biased and from pro-Israel sources - it never occurs that such evidence would NEVER be published by any other than pro-Israel sources!!

I got to admit it never ceases to amaze how Paul always demands evidence for those things he doesn't want to be true, given that he has specifically said he refuses to offer evidence for his claims, not matter how outlandish.

I'm not the one making the claim so there's no compulsion on me to provide evidence. mhaze if I make a claim I will offer evidence, if its my opinion then there is no requirement for evidence. So don't make up lies as you do.

"there's no compulsion on me to provide evidence. "

I didn't say you should, just that its always fascinating that you demand evidence and never supply it.

"So don't make up lies as you do."

Evidence? :)

Pauliar,

Mhaze has your number. His link has shown that you were lying, but then you always were a fanboy of terrorists.

Wow, here we have 'The Zionist Propaganda Sheet', aka 'The Times Of Israel' quoting one Zionist partner in crime who says; “We haven’t had the ability to investigate [the allegations] ourselves. But they are highly, highly credible,”

A bit like Mussolini saying about Hitlers claim that Poland invaded Germany and started WWII; “We haven’t had the ability to investigate [the allegations] ourselves. But they are highly, highly credible,”

Shadowminister, do you have evidence that "(I was) always a fanboy of terrorists" Then again its YOUR site and you can say what you like, post what you like, and delete what you like. Well, that's the impression I get.

"Wow, here we have 'The Zionist Propaganda Sheet', "

Like I said, there's literally NO evidence that Paul would accept as valid. Of course, there is also video footage and photos showing UNRWA employees participating in the 7/10 attack, but the Hamas cheer-squad will tell us they're faked. And we know that UNRWA hospitals were used as Hamas bases and that power and other facilities used by Hamas for its near-by tunnels were supplied by UNRWA run hospitals, but that will also be rejected as just propaganda by the Joos .

Its the same old playbook. The same one that was used to excuse Soviet atrocities, Khmer Rouge genocides, and a myriad of other outrages by those the left back. Simply deny all evidence as propaganda when its detrimental to the cause and treat all propaganda as evidence when it helps the cause.

mhaze,

There was substantive evidence of crimes committed by the Soviets and Khmer Rouge, I accept that. Even those admired by the likes of you there is strong evidence of them committing crimes against humanity today, the Zionists in Gaza, as they prepare to murder 10,000 children through starvation.

As for your "evidence" there is nothing in the article that shows; "video footage and photos showing UNRWA employees participating in the 7/10 attack," Where is that evidence, provided by an independent source?

Paul,

You misunderstand. All I was saying is that its the same way of ignoring evidence as was used by left apologists over the years. Treat all unwanted data as propaganda. Even on these pages we had you treating actual Soviet archives as propaganda because it told an unwanted story.

Again Paul asks for evidence, which he'll reject as propaganda. Not playing.

BTW Paul, still waiting on your evidence that I make up lies. In the meantime. talking of making stuff up, perhaps you'd like to revisit this from an earlier thread this month...

"Paul wrote: "[Trump's] record is 34,593 lying utterances,"

Now you're just making stuff up. I wonder if you see the irony of fabricating stuff about lies. Probably not."

I couldn't help but notice that you headed for the exits as soon as you were bounced on this.

Not just an OLO discussion

Penny Wong, mid March, announces Australia will resume funding to UNRWA

http://www.youtube.com/live/JY7wpfJyRzU?si=UnPUPBXM8fZ-_lmN

mhaze,

"Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" Washington Post, America's very respected journal. Other put it higher but the WP is a conservative publication (in my opinion).

"there's literally NO evidence that Paul would accept as valid" You well know I will accept independent verified evidence from a reputable sources, so that is a lie.

"he (Paul) has specifically said he refuses to offer evidence for his claims" I never said that, another lie, I said I don't (necessarily) offer evidence for my opinions.

"I couldn't help but notice that you headed for the exits as soon as you were bounced on this." I've just returned from 2 weeks in Aotearoa, where I was involved in several things, my wife and I consider important, that does not include posting on this little forum.

So originally they were "lying utterances". Now they're "false or misleading claims"!! I wonder if you know the difference.

1. It was the Washington Post - the most Trump hating media in the US. Tell me more about how you use unbiased sources.

2. Very few of the 30000+ were claimed lies. Most were just things the anti-Trump mafia disagree with eg the very first one is Trump saying the US hasn't won a war since the 1980s. They didn't claim it as a lie, just something that was debatable. Hilariously, a decade before they said the exact same thing as Trump. Pretty much everything on the list was like that.

3. The list wasn't designed to be factual - just to misled the gullible. They'll be pleased to know that in your case it worked.

Hi shadowminister
What's your latest gripe?
'The US is funding and facilitating genocide'?
- Yeah, we know - what else is new?

Thanks Mavs,

One who we can relied upon for honesty when posting, there is only a few of us left here these days. The Penny Wong YouTube demonstrated what lying lengths the ultra right on this Forum will go to, to discredit Labor. "Labor restores funding to terrorists" an unmitigated lie in itself! One blockwart is bucking for promotion to 'oberfuhrer', and the other already goosestepping around in his snappy black uniform sees himself as the next Reichsinspekteur!

Wong would be the last minister to trust. After her meeting with the Communist Chinese Foreign Minister, she says that, while there are differences between Australia and Communist China, we can "rise above them".

Oh yeah? Just forget that China is a vile Communist dictatorship that persecutes and murders its own people and anyone else who gets in the way.

That creep, Wang Li, has praised Wong for “integrating with East Asia” … “ where Australia's future belongs”. Integrating!

He also “warns” Australia not to allow America (our only protection against Communist China) to interfere with the mightily wrong (from any decent democratic point of view) association between China and Australia.

The plans that this evil Communist country has for Australia are d obvious to all but the most stupid Australians who, unfortunately, are in government, and in the Opposition.

No worries Paul.

Keep on fighting the good fight against OLO's Trump led majority.

But don't take that mob too seriously.

Cheers Mavs

"Trump’s false or misleading claims total 30,573 over 4 years" Washington Post, America's very respected journal. Other put it higher but the WP is a conservative publication (in my opinion).

Posted by Paul1405, Thursday, 21 March 2024 9:43:21 AM

Answer- Washington Post seemingly not conservative. But for Trotskyist's everything is conservative I suppose- even Stalin. WP is owned by Bezos- Amazon. It appears he may have sold himself to the Democrat Party partially because of the lucrative contracts for AWS servers within the US government. When Trump was in- he migrated many server systems to Microsoft Azure (judged by many as the technically superior platform).

Armchair Critic previously seemed to highlight articles by George Webb and others that seem to point to WP involvement with Hillary Clinton, Victoria Nuland, CIA, Euromaiden coup, and the Malaysian Airlines missile.

"The Albanese government and Foreign Minister Penny Wong have gambled with their integrity and accountability by reinstating Australia’s funding of the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, an organisation heavily discredited in terms of its relations with Hamas."

"The level of proof is sufficient for most civilised countries to block aid until UNRWA decoupled itself from Hamas."

You're one sick puppy shadowminister.
You're on Team 'Let's block, food, water and medicine'.

I don't care what valid argument you come up with.
I don't care if some employee helped on Oct 7 or some other employee was skimming money for Hamas.
Don't block the food, water and medicine that other countries give in kindness and good faith to assist these people you support in genociding.

I bet if Russia had've blocked food water and medicine to just one person...
- Say your CIA mate Alexei Navalny you'd be screaming the house down like a shrieking woman.

Am I wrong?

Israel's doing this to 2.2 million people.
I don't care what flawed reason you idiots come up with.
There's no excuse for depriving innocent people of food water and medicine, NONE.

And stop supporting Israel bombing people when they go to collect said aid too.
You support this ongoing filth of human behavior...

As for: "The Albanese government and Foreign Minister Penny Wong have gambled with their integrity and accountability"
- No, you're wrong.

They risk being seen as siding with the genociders (Israel) and genocide facilitators (USA) if they don't reinstate it.
I don't really support foreign aid at all when there are Aussies homeless and on public hospital waiting lists, but I'll agree to reinstating it here, as we are in fact gambling with their integrity and accountability if we don't you fool.

You'll always find a way to justify the actions because you support Israel.
If you didn't, there'd be no way you'd tolerate this.
Remember Alexei Nadalny, right?

Israel's using 'deprivation of food water and medicine' as a weapon of war against innocent people.

It's ABHORRENT, and CANNOT BE DEFENDED YOU FOOLS.

In view of the pact between the Russians, the PLO, the PA, Qatar and
the terrorists including Hamas, then there is not much point in making
an attack on Rafah. The underground Hamas are not going anywhere so
just let them stew and swap food for hostages, then flood the tunnels
and shoot the rats as they come out.
The highest level of Hamas is quite safe in Qatar. I am sure that the
Israelis can pick them off later.

Thanks AC,

"Israel's doing this to 2.2 million people.
I don't care what flawed reason you idiots come up with.
There's no excuse for depriving innocent people of food water and medicine, NONE."

The "sick puppies" are quite happy for 10,000 innocent Palestinian children to be starved to death. Soon after 7th Oct I predicted that the Zionists would commit mass genocide against the Palestinian people. I was poo-hooed but no one except the absolute far right nut jobs can deny that now.

We've been told ever since 8 October that the Israel response was gunna result in mass starvation. The Gazans are always on the brink of famine yet never seem to get there. Indeed when you see the footage coming out from Gaza you really don't see any skinny, let alone starving, bodies. The famine is more propaganda than fact which of course the Hamas cheer-squad will fall for or join in.

Would it be churlish to point out that cutting off funding to partisan UNRWA isn't the same as cutting food to Gaza. They do have other means of getting supplies in without going through the now highly compromised UN agency.

Still, if all these claims about imminent mass death are true then I'm sure the AC's and Paul's of this world will join in calls for Hamas to surrender the hostages (or at least those that have survived the tender mercies of the maniac Gazans) and lay down their arms to bring the war to an end.

You know...for the good of the kiddies.

In a survey taken a few days ago, 71% of Gazans say they support Hamas and the 7 October attacks. Explain to me again how they are all innocent by-standers!

A plurality support Hamas over Fatah or any other group in regards to future leadership of the so-called Palestinian people.

96% said, if they needed food or water, there was a place they could get it, albeit with some risk. Explain to me again how they're all starving.

http://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/969

mhaze,
Israel and Ukraine are both terrorist nations supported by the West, with Western taxpayers money.
What have we become in our blind support for the U.S. ?

Honestly I don't want to be associated with any of this in our name...
We should not be associated with these countries.

Palestinian's proclaiming 'Kill the occupiers' does not make them terrorists, you Jewish brown-nose.
That technically makes one a freedom fighter when one is occupied by another.

Killing innocent people, well that's another story;
But you haven't said a peep in 6 months about Palestinians needlessly killed.

So why should anyone give a crap about people dying you care about.
You belong in Israel, your hearts already there,
Go get a rifle and go to Gaza, Hamas is waiting for you.

You're not a Trump supporting MAGA patriot.
You're a Trump supporting Israel firster.
You'd make Biden the Zionist proud.

Israel has committed that many atrocities now that it doesn't deserve to exist.
All the extremists in the Israeli government and the IDF and settlers should be lined up and shot for the crimes they've committed.

You lot are about as bad as David Singer a week or so back, trying to blame everyone from Facebook, Instagram, the Police, the UN, and the the Geneva Convention.

"Explain to me again how they are all innocent by-standers!"

You actually think that invading their homes and murdering them with a heavy handed approach is going to endear them to the Jews?
You are insane if you think this.

You may as well be asking "Why don't the palestinians host Jewish picnics"?
Umm because they hate you, because you murder them, ethnically cleanse and genocide them.
Are you deaf, dumb and blind?
Or just plain stupid?

Of course they hate what the Jews do, and of course some look for payback.
Don't you understand cause and effect you idiot?

What Israel has actually been doing, is trying to make them a guilty, defeated nation with a hollowed out soul like Germany or Japan.

That they would willing embrace the fetal position.
That they would willing self-neuter themselves.
Israel thought it had won.

Well it doesn't work on people that embrace martyrdom in their ideological thinking.

So AC, that's a "NO" to calling on Hamas to give up the hostages and surrender to save the kiddies you claim to want to save?

Like Hamas, you're only using concern for the kiddies as a cover for you political agenda.

Figures.

"....you Jewish brown-nose."

Stooping to that level of profanity shows how shallow your assertions really are.

"UNRWA is the very worst of all international agencies ...... unaccountable .... corrupt leadership .... teaching hatred and inciting terrorism. But worse it is substantially integrated with Hamas....".

("Blood on her hands" i.e Wong, David Adler), Spectator 23/3/24).

UNRWA is currently under investigation, but Wong has jumped in and re-started giving them Australian's money before the results of the investigation are are known. She has given the entire 2023-24 allocation to them without batting and eyelid, unlike the more cautious and more sensible UK and US. Hamas is a great fan of Wong's.

She was right to reinstate it.
I don't want my country associated with 'forced starvation of innocents for Israel's ethnic cleansing and genocide.

Stopping the aid risks making us a party to what Israel's ethnic cleansing and genocide.
Your bias towards Israel, is different from right and wrong.
When will you fools learn right from wrong?
Hate them if you must, but do not deny them basic essentials;
Food, water and medicine.

- Otherwise the blood is equally on our hands, and I DON'T SUPPORT THAT

Go put on an IDF uniform or become an Israeli settler and kill them yourself if you must.
- But DON'T ASSOCIATED THE REST OF US WITH IT.

I don't want the blood of innocents staining our country's reputation.
We are not a warmonger nation, despite some of our leaders having one foot in the warmongers camp.

Innocents? Get a grip! These people voted for Hamas. Just after the atrocities against Israelis, 70% voiced their support for the terrorists and what they did. Some of them were involved themselves. They teach their children to hate Jews for no other reason than they themselves have been brought up to hate Jews. Innocent my backside! If they want peace and a normal life, they need to help Israeli rid the world of Hamas, and learn to live alongside Jews as fellow human beings.

In the meantime, "your country" is aiding and abetting terror and anti-Semitism. Giving money to UNRWA should be treated as a criminal act. Shame on Wong, Albanese and the entire Labor Party.

Hi AC,

You are told to "get a grip" don't you know those thousands of babies and children murdered by the Zionists in Gaza "voted for Hamas" a Zionist supporting fool has told you so!

Not even Israels partners in genocide their staunch ally the United States, a country itself well known for its atrocities of mass murder of civilians at times, is willing to support the Zionist rampage of murder in Gaza any longer. Will Israel comply with the latest UNSC resolution ordering an immediate ceasefire between the Israelis and Hamas in Gaza. Hamas has indicated it is willing to release the hostages. The vote was 14 in favour, with the United States abstaining. This is a legally binding resolution on the Zionists, will they ignore it, or continue to be a world pariah as they certainly are!

So Paul, do you support the idea of Hamas giving up all the surviving hostages and surrendering to the IDF in order to save the kiddies that you so piously complain of?

Or, like AC, do you just use the concern for the kiddies as a cloak for your actual political desires?

mhaze,

I support anything that saves lives, children's, women, civilians, hostages, soldiers, fighters, whoever, Israeli as well as Palestinian. Do you support the UNSC resolution, or are you simply supporting Zionist genocide in Gaza? From your posts, I gather that the mass killing of totally innocent Palestinian children does not disturbed you at all.

"Innocents? Get a grip!"

No mate you get a bloody grip.
You lot have been babbling your bs for 6+ months and not a single one of you has said a damn word of sadness or regret about the dead Palestinians.

There's 31,000 dead Palestinians and 22,000 of them are women and kids.
That leaves 9000 men and elderly, so Israel sure as hell hasn't even come close to destroying Hamas, now they want Rafah where citizens were all sent by Israel and to kill them as well.

And all you scum support it.
I won't support the killing of innocents, you might, I wont.

Have you heard of the flour massacre?
That's Israel bombing starving people running to get aid.

Re-instating the aid hardly matters anyway because genocidal Israel won't allow the aid in quick enough, hoping more will die.

MORE COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT OF INNOCENTS - WARCRIMES

"These people voted for Hamas."
- Of course they did. So what?

Just after the atrocities against Israelis, 70% voiced their support for the terrorists and what they did.
- Of course they did. So what?

Because they just loooovvve having their people put in indefinite administrative detention without charge, they just loooovve seeing their kids shot and tortured, they just looooovve having their food and water and medicine cut off, They just looovvve being attacked by settlers, and having IDF bust into their homes at 2am and execute them, they just loooooovvve the burning of their olive groves - which takes 8years to bear fruit, and being murdered by indiscriminate sniper fire.

I told you bombing them would be a recruitment drive.

"They teach their children to hate Jews for no other reason than they themselves have been brought up to hate Jews."

For "no other reason"? you demented fool

[Cont.]
"If they want peace and a normal life, they need to help Israeli rid the world of Hamas, and learn to live alongside Jews as fellow human beings."

No mate, if Israel wants peace:
It will state it's borders and give these people their own state.
That Colonial powers promised them 100 years ago.

Israel gets what it deserves.
'Reap what you sow...'
Take note Christian schoolboy.

And FYI, I technically do not support Hamas, because I don't believe / support or adhere to Islam.
But I most certainly support the Palestinians right to resist occupation, which also includes attacking any and all IDF at will.
- Until they have their own state, and their own self determination as was promised to them.

The sooner these people have their own state, the sooner they might stop being angry and there'll less chance of blood on OUR streets.
- And less for you lot to whinge about.

Oh good, well that wasn't so hard. Paul now agrees that Hamas ought to surrender and release all hostages. I wonder if Hamas will do that?

"Do you support the UNSC resolution,"
Sure. But the resolution calls for a ceasefire during Ramadan AND the release of all hostages. Hamas won't agree to that.

Paul fabricated..."Hamas has indicated it is willing to release the hostages."

That's rubbish. Indeed, just a few days ago Hamas rejected an Israeli offer to release 800 terrorists in return for 40 hostages. Hamas rejected the offer outright, leading to an end to negotiations.

Of course, it is quite likely now that there are no more hostages to return ie Hamas has already killed those that remained.

AC whined... "I won't support the killing of innocents, you might, I wont."

I seem to recall you trying very hard to excuse and/or ignore the killing of innocents on 7 October last. Or has that been memory-holed?

I seem to recall you trying very hard to excuse and/or ignore the killing of innocents in regards to the Uighur genocide. Or has that been memory-holed?

AC's holier-than-thou schtick really is rather pathetic.

What a total load of crap.
It's no wonder this worlds gone mad.
People don't even know right from wrong.

Democracy, thats a joke.
Progressives and Conservatives.
The progressives will grab a hold of every weird thing you could possible imagine, proclaim it as normal and promote it.
While the conservatives / Evangelicals showed really bad form during Covid and are showing even worse form during this Israel / Palestine conflict.

The fake Christians supporting Israel are as full of it as anyone.
Like somehow in their minds Jesus is up there saying 'Bomb those little bastards'.

All you people have poisoned your own souls, lost your humanity.
If the bible says 'Thou shalt not kill'
- Then you don't support more bloodshed.

You support 'Negotiations, Diplomacy, Dialouge and Compromise, over Conflict.'
- None of you can see right from wrong.

Have the hell do you square all this off within yourselves.
'Christians4genocide', it's got me knackered.

And then we wonder why the nation and leaders have become a bunch of idiots?
- And a million bloody immigrants a year at home.

Armchair's obsession with something over which he has no control is really getting to him. His "arguments" now consist of calling people who dare to disagree with his mania "scum" and “you demented fool”. He's ready for the men in white coats.

Despite his screechings and hatreds, Israel is winning. Israel always wins. The calls for an “immediate ceasefire” in the useless UN have made Netanyahu even more determined. And, surrounding Muslim countries still avoid giving succour to Gazans. They won't have a bar of them, unlike piss-weak Australia, importing them to carry on with their hate-filled lunacy in Sydney.

The fact of the shunning of Gazans by their own religionists totally escapes this keyboard warrior and others who have enthusiastically used this tragedy in the Middle East to vent their hatred of Jews.

A Trump America and the rejuvenation of the Abraham Accord, the obliteration of Hamas, will have them swallowing their tongues in rage.

Hi mhaze,
"So AC, that's a "NO" to calling on Hamas to give up the hostages and surrender to save the kiddies you claim to want to save?"

Give up hostages and surrender?
- Absolutely not.

Just wait until the Palestinians have drone swarms in coming years.
No Israeli will feel safe, best to make peace in my humble opinion.

If I were the Palestinians, my answer would be this.
Hostage release - No
Hostage exchange - Yes
Everyone for everyone.

Every single Palestinian held by Israel released in exchange for:
Every single hostage held by the Palestinians + all IDF and other Israelis get the hell out of Palestinian areas.

If the response by Israel is 'No Deal'
- Then every single remaining hostage goes home in a box due to starvation which will be filmed and broadcast for the relatives to see.

When the relatives scream their loved ones died from Palestinians witholding food, water or medicine, it will just highlight their OWN SUPPORT AND HYPOCRICY for their governments measures by witholding food, water and medicine to the Palestinians.

It would be a fitting and poetic end to the hostage saga.

There will be no 'Win for Israel after all its atrocities'
There will be no ability to claim 'We did this for the hostages'
- No win for the Israeli government.
- All the hostages will be dead.

"Stooping to that level of profanity shows how shallow your assertions really are."
- It's not untrue, so suck it up you girl.

Finally, AC shows his true colours.

After spending half his time telling how virtuous he is, he calls for the murder of the Israeli hostages. Of course, there's every chance that Hamas have already fulfilled AC's wishes and killed the remaining hostages anyway.

But for people like AC, this is what it ultimately comes down to - kill the Jews.

__________________________________________________________________

I can't help but notice that when I showed evidence that the vast majority of Gazans confirm they have access to food and water, the Hamas cheer-squad hurried to look the other way. It seems they like the idea of starving Gazans and are none to happy to find out the famine stories are just propaganda.

mhaze,

You have not posted one word of displeasure at the wholesale murder of 30,000 innocent people, 20,000 of whom were women and children. You claim myself and AC take perverted satisfaction at the murder of innocent Israelis at the hands of Hamas 7th Oct. NOT BLOODY TRUE! What sort of perverted mind are you who would claim breast feeding babies "voted for Hamas"!

Yes, before the ceasefire resolution at the UNSC, Hamas was unwilling to release more hostages without a ceasefire, they have indicated with the passing of this UNSC resolution they are willing to do so in exchange for thousands of Palestinians being held in Zionist concentration camps.

BTW, as a pacifist I deplore ALL war, and ALL killing. As a warmonger I'm sure you hold a different view.

Apart from the Gazans not being all "innocent" - many are actually Hamas terrorists - people more in the know than any of us indicate that the figures are not all that believeable.

Just remember that in WW2, 15 million soldiers were killed compared with 38 million civilians. There is nothing new or unusual about Gazan civilians being killed.

"There is nothing new or unusual about Gazan civilians being killed."

Well those Palestinian parents of children who have been murdered by the Zionists will take great comfort in that knowledge, ttbn. A little collateral damage here, a little collateral damage there, nothing unusual. Should a foreign power ever attack Australia, heaven forbid, and should they kill tens of thousands of us civilians, we too will be able to take great comfort in the knowledge that its only collateral damage, nothing unusal. Did you learn that from the Americans, as they are great ones for inflicting collateral damage on the unfortunates wherever they go.

"BTW, as a pacifist I deplore ALL war, and ALL killing. "

But a true pacifist wouldn't take sides. That's where you err and show your true colours.

We all deplore war and killing. But sometimes, when dealing with maniacs like Hamas, war is a necessary evil. Those in the real world know this....you should join the real world some time.

"You claim myself and AC take perverted satisfaction at the murder of innocent Israelis at the hands of Hamas 7th Oct."

Well I never said such a thing. You see, Paul, when you have to fabricate my opinions, you've already lost.
I have said, however, that, in your haste to attack the evil Joos, you've ignored the suffering, the atrocities, the sheer inhumanity of 7/10.

"What sort of perverted mind are you who would claim breast feeding babies "voted for Hamas"!"
Well I never said such a thing. You see, Paul, when you have to fabricate my opinions, you've already lost

Paul

I wouldn't have thought that my statement of the facts of war would be a trigger for your frivolous response. There IS nothing unusual about civilians being killed in war, and the civilian victims are not “collateral”, they are people.

The Israelis murdered and brutalised by Hamas were also people, not combatants but civilians; they were DELIBERATELY killed by Hamas.

The Gazan citizens were not deliberately killed by Israel, nor are they being deliberately killed now. They are dead because of Hamas; something that you cannot come to grips with.

There is simply no equating the deliberate murder, without warning, of Israeli citizens,with the deaths of Gazans among whom Hamas chooses to conduct its assault on Israel.

There is no “great comfort” (are you serious!) in the facts of war. But, war is about killing. And yes, an attack on Australia would result in the deaths of many of us - particularly where you live. And probably before our greatest ally: the one you hate so much, could help us.

Next time you get the urge to rubbish America and call people war mongers, remember that you are on the most vulnerable-to-attack east coast of the country.

mhaze said;

"In a survey taken a few days ago, 71% of Gazans say they support Hamas and the 7 October attacks."

Fact; Children make up 47% of Gaza's population. If the entire 53% of adults support Hamas, then to reach 71% support 18% must be children supporting Hamas. Correct mhaze.

So when I say "What sort of perverted mind are you who would claim breast feeding babies "voted for Hamas""....based on your own percentage of 71%. So if all 53% of adults support Hamas, where does the other 18% come from CHILDREN, including breast feeding babies?

BTW, where did YOU conduct YOUR survey, down at Klan HQ?

ttbn,

Was it not Ronald Reagan as he embraced war as the new American foreign policy, described civilian casualties as mere collateral damage.

"The Israelis murdered and brutalised by Hamas were also people, not combatants but civilians; they were DELIBERATELY killed by Hamas." Agree.

"The Gazan citizens were not deliberately killed by Israel" The world no longer believes that baseless claim.

“great comfort” words of sarcasm from me old salt.

"our greatest ally" You may find that great ally is nowhere to be seen, when the chips are down, they will always serve their own interest first.

As America is the number one killer in war in my lifetime, I'm right in describing them as warmongers. Involved in 19 wars since WWII, the very powerful American military has killed over 12 million people in that time, yes they are warmongers without a doubt.

Paul

I neither know nor care what Ronald Reagan said. He is dead. ‘Collateral’ is about money, not people.

What makes you think the assertion, not claim, that Israel is not deliberately killing civilians is “baseless” when they continually warn people to move out of areas they intend to operate in? Are you denying that this has happened?

If America is “nowhere to be seen when the chips are down”, who else is there? We cannot defend ourselves, thanks to decades of neglect by all Australian governments.

You eastern staters will be first to find out. Your “heaven forbid” won't work because you believe in heaven even less than you believe in America.

If America hadn't waged war on the occasions they did, you wouldn't be around to put about the bullsh-t you are spreading now.

And your Communist mates have killed over 35 million people, if you are keeping a kill count; and that's a conservative estimate.

But, as the “old fart” you are always calling me, I will probably miss what will happen. Good luck to you.

ttbn,

Given the fact the Zionist army is deliberately shooting dead starving civilians as they try to retrieve food aid from trucks, is rather compelling evidence that civilians are being deliberate targeted. When the Zionist order civilians to evacuate to a certain location, then bomb that location, is also compelling evidence of civilians being deliberately targeted.

"You eastern staters will be first to find out" Personally I don't fear death, it comes to us all. Given the stats and numbers, It would seem if you're going to get bombed, its mostly likely to come from an American plane!

"And your Communist mates have killed over 35 million people" as I have NO COMMUNIST MATES that I am aware of, that's also untrue. Independent annalists put the death toll at 50,000 innocent Cambodians, not Vietnamese, killed during the Vietnam War by American bombing. Would that make the Americans warmongers. America is a country run by white racists, they don't care about how many non-whites they kill, that's why the evil Ronald Reagan called those non whites he had murdered during his foreign wars, collateral damage, not human being, just objects to be disposed of!

'Old Fartism' is a state of mind, you could be 25 and be an 'Old Fart' in my book.

"Fact; Children make up 47% of Gaza's population. If the entire 53% of adults support Hamas, then to reach 71% support 18% must be children supporting Hamas. Correct mhaze."

Paul is now so desperate to try to hide his fabrications that he's even gone beyond dredging the bottom of the barrel. Sad and yet so funny.

mhaze,

You can't tell me what is the makeup of your phoney figure of 71%. How many children took part in YOUR phoney survey. BTW who conducts surveys when the Zionists are raining bombs down on ones head? I don't think it was Roy Morgan wanting to know what brand of margie the Palestinians prefer! That's right, the Zionists have cut off all margarine deliveries to Gaza, along with all other aid! STARVING PEOPLE TO DEATH!

" How many children took part in YOUR phoney survey."

Well it shows results Paul would prefer to ignore, therefore its phoney.
I included a link. The survey is very robust.

"STARVING PEOPLE TO DEATH!"

The survey showed that 96% of Gazans were able to access food as required. Another thing Paul would prefer wasn't true, therefore its phoney.

I must be surreal to live in a world where every fact you'd prefer wasn't a fact is automatically ignored. Its nothing to do with reality but that's the way some like to exist.

Oh, BTW, how many children voted for Albanese. None? Oh he must be illegitimate then!!

Paul

Once you pull the “Zionist” card you lose.

The food truck stoush? Israeli soldiers were protecting themselves. Whether or not hunger caused the Gazans to attack the Israelis we are not told, but the Israelis were entitled to defend themselves from aggression no matter where it came from and why. You would defend yourself no matter what you thought about your attacker. It's human nature.

Your warning-then- bombing comment is nonsense.

Your “stats and numbers comment about getting bombed by an American plane is also nonsense.

What might have happened or not happened in Cambodia is as irrelevant to this topic as the Charge of the Light Brigade.

You don't have Communist mates? The Greens Party is the face of Communism in the West, where it still doesn't have the numbers to go the full hog. Never fear, the way our youth is going, Sydney will be renamed New Beijing soon enough.

Finally, I wasn't aware that America was run by white racists. Thanks for letting me know that Slow Joe and the Democrats are white racists, battling against all those darkies flooding in over the southern border.

"We all deplore war and killing. But sometimes, when dealing with maniacs like Hamas, war is a necessary evil. Those in the real world know this....you should join the real world some time."

'The real world' - That's bullcrap.
One side fights to steal land, they are the maniacs.
The other side fights for respect, justice, decency and dignity.

War is not a necessary evil.
War is a failure of diplomacy
War is diplomacy by other means
'Lets go sort things out in the carpark'

You're making the argument that if I have a grievance with my neigbour I should resort to violence rather than try to talk things through and avoid conflict.

Hamas are Palestinian resistance.
Did you call the French resistance in WWII terrorists when they attacked NAZIs as well?
It's the same thing.

As long as an occupation and subjagation exist, resistance will exist.
Call it Hamas... call it Santa Claus...
You won't destroy the spirit of resistance.

100 damn years, you'd think the facts would be clear by now?
If Israel wants them gone, it's going to have to kill a whole lot more of them.
But the worlds not going to stand for it.

Israel is on a path of self destruction.

Don't you like my idea to send all the hostages back dead from starvation?
I thought it might light a fuse the tears the whole country apart.
Isn't it like the ultimate Karma to the Jewish state who seem hell bent on staving others to death?
- And no great big win for Israel and Netanyahu at the end?
Of course they could trade everyone for everyone instead so it would be their choice.

Something needs to change over there, the killings have to stop.

The Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research, conducts surveys jointly with Israeli researchers, including Tel Aviv University.

Well hardly unbiased, but I suppose when some mob are bombing the crap out of you, and killing your children, you might support anyone who will say they are fighting to save you and your children lives. The way the Zionists are murdering the Palestinians, I can't believe 29% don't support Hamas, must be those breast feeding babies.

"if I have a grievance with my neigbour I should resort to violence rather than try to talk things through and avoid conflict."

Yes AC. If your neighbour breaks into your house, murders your wife, rapes and kidnaps your daughter and beheads her baby, you should absolutely "talk things through". Struth.

The two faces of AC:
* any death is deplorable and all killing must stop.
* let's kill all the hostages.

This thread is a clear indicator that the Israel-Palestine conflict insanity has already spread to Australia !

According to mhaze,

If your neighbour breaks into your house, murders your wife, rapes and kidnaps your daughter and beheads her baby, you should inflict all possible revenge.

The more than 20,000 women and children murdered in Gaza by the Zionists were a party to the Hamas atrocities of Oct 7th, correct mhaze? So you believe the Zionists are rightly extracting retribution from these women and children for their crime by murdering them. Struth!

Yes, a group of Palestinians calling themselves Hamas did commit a terrible crime of murder on 7th Oct, killing 1200 Israelis. BUT that doesn't justify the Zionists going about murdering 30,000 innocent Palestinians in revenge. Streth!

By mhaze logic, if your neighbour breaks into your house etc, then don't just punish the neighbour for his crime, punish the whole bloody neighbourhood. If he stole your car, murder his five children. Don't stop there go around to his brothers house who doesn't live in the neighbourhood and murder him and his family as well, as an act of revenge. struth!

"According to mhaze, If your neighbour breaks into your house, murders your wife, rapes and kidnaps your daughter and beheads her baby, you should inflict all possible revenge."

Well I never said such a thing. You see, Paul, when you have to fabricate my opinions, you've already lost.

Tell ya what Paul. How about you address the points I make rather than make up my opinions and then tell me how bad those made up opinions are. That tells us more about you than me.

Just a couple of other points for you to distort:

1. You keep describing the people who die in Gaza as murdered. Well that's ain't so. They died in war which is very different. You won't understand that.

2. They died because Hamas is using them as shields to protect themselves from the consequences of their maniac actions on 7/10.

3. You keep using numbers that are put out by Hamas and treating them as fact. I don't accept those numbers and recognise the difference between fact and propaganda.

This back and forth is a waste of time.

The bottom line is this: had it not been for the Hamas terror attack on Israeli civilians on 7th October, not a single Gazan would have been killed. End of story. Suck it up. Tough titty.

"The two faces of AC:
* any death is deplorable and all killing must stop.
* let's kill all the hostages."

I didn't say 'Let's kill all the hostages'.
- I wasn't my first preference I offered a choice for a prisoner exchange, everyone for everyone.

What you want Israel to have ALL their people back.
But you still want Israel to keep some of the Palestinians prisoner / hostage whatever the hell you want to call it?
- And you think that's a fair deal?

If that's what you think, then it's because you're a weasel.
That's all that these 'claimed' offers of peace ever were, weasel deals.
Not fair ones with a true intention to try to make peace.
How many Palestinians has Israel locked up since Oct 7?

IN ANY CASE

Any argument the Israeli or Pro-Israeli side makes is just a clever but pathetic attempt to try and mask the fact that all this is about taking land in line with 'Eretz Israel' or 'Greater Israel' and that even Netanyahu has himself referred to the Palestinians as 'Amalek'.

1 Sam.15
[3] Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Anyone here who says the Palestinians are bad, and Islam is the reason forget there's two sides of that argument.
The Israelis are as equally screwed up in their religious aims and attitude.

The Israeli's are committing ethnic cleansing and genocide.
It's no big secret, it's not like Israel can hide it.
What do they think we're all stupid?

Israel is a sick country, just like Ukraine.
When the citizens of one side are celebrating their sides attacks on the other sides innocent civilians - as both Israeli and Ukrainians citizens currently are, it's because the populace are sick, and the nation is sick

AC yesterday..."Don't you like my idea to send all the hostages back dead from starvation?"

AC today..."I didn't say 'Let's kill all the hostages'."

What a bozo.

"When the citizens of one side are celebrating their sides attacks on the other sides innocent civilians - as both Israeli and Ukrainians citizens currently are, it's because the populace are sick, and the nation is sick"

Ahem..."Palestinians In Gaza And The West Bank Celebrate On October 7, Hand Out Sweets, Fire Guns In The Air, Following Hamas's Invasion And Massacre Of Israeli Civilians In The Gaza Envelope"

http://www.memri.org/tv/palestinians-gaza-west-bank-celebrate-october-seven-massacre-hand-out-sweets-fire-guns

But if you don't want it to be true, it isn't.

I was reminded this afternoon that while the Albanese government has further disgraced itself by by restoring funding to UNRWA, the U.S has passed a Bill preventing any funds from going to UNRWA until and unless certain requirements are met.

Also, Netanyahu has said that UNRWA will have no role to play after the defeat of Hamas.

Hi mhaze,
Why don't you go back a little further and check my comments;
I offered a prisoner exchange, doesn't Israel want it's people back?

On second thoughts though, I realise I'd be conflicted by such a plan.
- To starve hostages and send them back in a box.

The moment I did that, (supporting the starvation of hostages and sending them all back in a box) I'd be edging my toe across a line marking an 'ends justifies the means' position.
Which really is the argument of terrorists, and I can't really support it.

But I think it really would screw Israel over entirely at this point if that happened.
There would be no victory for them, just a slaughter of innocents by them.
And the knowledge that what they did to others was done to them in return.

Hi ttbn,
"I was reminded this afternoon that while the Albanese government has further disgraced itself by by restoring funding to UNRWA, the U.S has passed a Bill preventing any funds from going to UNRWA until and unless certain requirements are met."

I'm not saying we should send them cash.
I'm just saying we should NOT STOP sending food, water and medicine.
We can revisit the whole idea of whether or not we should or should not send any aid at all after the war is over.

It's not even being let in anyway, though there's been an increase in truckloads of aid getting in from 100 trucks to 200 truck (per day) over the last week.

When we say 'We send aid to the Palestinians', we certainly do not mean 'we are sending cash to Hamas, the legitimate government in Gaza'.
We send money to a UN agency.

We shouldn't use a conflict as a pretext to deprive people of basic essentials.
And is being 'occupied by Israel' not a factor in why we give aid to Palestinians anyway?
It's nitpicking and devious to go after the whole organisation for the sake of a few employees in the middle of a genuine crisis.

As for the war being over 'The destruction of Hamas' Israels stated goal.

31,000 dead, 21,000 are women and kids;
So 10,000 men and elderly.

How many of those men do you think are Hamas?
30,000 fighters in Al Qassam brigades and more in other groups
Out of 2.2 million people
Let's say 5000 men and 5000 elderly.

You'd be lucky if half the men killed were Hamas.
So what 2500 Hamas killed in total?
And 28500 women, kids, elderly and non-combatant men to achieve it?
and 27500 more Hamas to go + other Islamic resistance fighters?

For every 30 people killed, Israel kills 2 Hamas maximum.
It's not a war, it's a slaughter of innocents.
These are facts.

Even if they do support Hamas and Palestinian resistance and hopes for self-determination that doesn't mean they deserve to be obliterated by bombs because they were born on land Israel wants to steal.

- And if Israel didn't want to steal the land.
Then they would've ended the conflict and stated their borders long ago, the Palestinians would have their own state;
- And all this bs and pointless needless killings wouldn't continue on and on indefinitely.

It's all about land theft.

ARAB Israeli Khaled Abu Toameh, journalist, has something to say about the “innocent” Gazans, many of them UNRWA employees who took part in the atrocities against Israeli citizens on 7th October.

Twenty Arab/Muslim Israelis were butchered knowingly by Hamas and the UNRWA “innocents”. The women were wearing hijabs. But they were Israeli citizens, and they were treated the same way as other Israeli citizens.

Khaled Abu Toameh’s family was among the 145,000 Arabs who stayed on when Israel was founded. There are 2 million Arab Israelis now living in the country. Some Muslim. Some Jewish. Some Christian.

Hamas and the “innocent” Palestinians made the mistake of thinking that they would be supported by Arab Israelis. It didn't stop them from killing 20 Arabs, though.

They got it wrong. Israel is the country of the 2 million Arabs these days, and they are loyal to it. They condemn what happened on 7th October, and they blame Hamas unreservedly.

Another thing to know about these “innocent” Palestinian and the Palestinian Authority is that they have been guilty of attacks on Israel well before Hamas took control in 2009. Since that time UNRWA, recipient of the Albanese largesse, has been under the control of Hamas.

The Gazans are reaping what they sowed.

AC trying very hard to extricate himself from the corner he's painted himself into....

According to AC, he DIDN'T say he wanted to kill all the hostages, and when he DID say he wanted to kill all the hostages, he was conflicted.

"oh what a tangled web we weave...."

As to the hostages, I think it is reasonably safe to assume that the majority of those remaining are already dead or so badly treated by the Mohammedans that they cannot be allowed to go. Israel's war is no longer about getting them back....it is about destroying Hamas and its infrastructure in order to ensure that inhuman atrocities like 7/10 can never happen again

Japan has also now lost its bottle and resumed funding the terrorists. The few non-Western allies we have are as useless and as cowardly as we are.

mhaze and ttbn,

Do you believe the Zionist Propaganda News, that the Palestinians are being put on trains and transported to the East for resettlement? If its in the Zionist Propaganda News, it must be true! You believe everything else they say.

Paul, who fell hook, line and sinker for fabricated Hamas death tolls, tells me that I always fall for stories from a non-existent news source. Dill.

" You see, Paul, when you have to fabricate my opinions, you've already lost"

Like all extreme Leftists, he eventually starts making things up when he is proven wrong time after time. There's also his alcohol problem: something he shares with Xi Jinping, apparently. With Xi, we can't tell if it's his Communism or the booze that has made him insane. Same applies to Paul, poor bugger.

mhaze,

"Paul, who fell hook, line and sinker for fabricated Hamas death tolls" fabricating lies again mhaze. I only believe reliable figures put out by independent news sources. Unlike you who will quote Zionist publications and the murderous IDF. Do you not hang off every word Netanyahu and his ministers and military chiefs utter? Seems you do, you quote them often enough! WHAT IS YOUR NUMBER OF DEAD PALESTINIAN WOMEN AND CHILDREN KILLED BY ISRAEL SINCE OCT 7TH? According to you even breast feeding babies deserve to die as they are supporting Hamas as well (Based on your claim of 79% Palestinian support for Hamas).

1. It was 71% not 79%...do try to keep up with the rest of the class.
2. Its not my figure, its from a reputable surveying organisation
3. I don't quote IDF or Netanyahu... " You see, Paul, when you have to fabricate my opinions, you've already lost"
4. You say you believe reliable figures but use Hamas's figures. Do you even know the difference?
5. I've never said anything even close to "breast feeding babies deserve to die". I've never said anything even close to any Gazan deserves to die. " You see, Paul, when you have to fabricate my opinions, you've already lost".

Picture worth a thousand words and explains the civilian deaths...
http://instapundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/IMG_4745-600x318.jpg

mhaze,

71%...79%, the figure is so rubbery its not worth a second thought, they could have just as easily said 157%. A little check showed your survey mob were "owned and operated" by the Zionist. As a devout Trumpster yourself, I know you don't accept anything the United Nations puts out, that's one source for independent material, not the Zionist propaganda sheet 'The Jerusalem Post'.

I still ask; What is the number you believe for Palestinian women and children killed by the IDF since 7th Oct?

The Zionists are making another pretence at talks in Egypt and Qatar for a ceasefire in Gaza, despite a binding UNSC resolution on Israel to enter into an immediate ceasefire. Its not going to happen as the Zionists are not interested in a ceasefire. The International Court of Justice in The Hague said it had accepted South Africa's argument that the further deterioration of the humanitarian situation in Gaza required Israel to do more to prevent mass starvation. Again, the Zionist are not interested in that, death and starvation are all part of the Zionist planned genocide!

"A little check showed your survey mob were "owned and operated" by the Zionist."

Must've been a very little check because that's rubbish. More fabrication?

There is no "mass starvation" in Gaza. Its propaganda that people like Paul just fall for as they always do. Way back in mid-October 2023, the UN was calling for a ceasefire because the Gazans were, they said, on the point of mass starvation. Its always imminent but never quite happens. But people like our Hamas cheer-squad won't understand that.