"Reasonable doubt isn't a technicality. It's the very basis of our judicial system although some, who just want to convict based on who they hate, might wish it otherwise."

Foxy proves my point..."Cardinal Pell's case showed that our justice system needs an overhaul -especially - in cases of child sexual abuse.
Pell was not an ïnnocent man. The High Court simply went by the current laws of having to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" a person's guilt in criminal cases." I hate him, therefore he should be gaoled.

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"He [Pell] was a man with a record of abuse."

Actually he was a man with a record of being accused of abuse based o unproven and/or fabricated claims.

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"The legal system often uses "innocent" to mean "not guilty" within the confines of a trial. "...."Your assertion that in criminal trials, the terms "not guilty" and "innocent" are used interchangeably is a misunderstanding. "

In a multi-universe system, I'm sure there's a version of Earth where that makes sense....unfortunately this isn't it.

S,

You are tying yourself in knots.

You said "The legal system often uses "innocent" to mean "not guilty" within the confines of a trial." My point exactly, and visa versa.

Foxy made my second point by saying:

"Pell was not an ïnnocent man. The High Court simply went by the current laws of having to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" a person's guilt in criminal cases. Pell's case rested on one person's testimony against his own. His past abuse was not a consideration.

That Pell had no previous convictions or even police complaints, this is scurrilous and completely irrelevant. The high court clearly showed that there was no proper evidence and legal process.

mhaze,

Please tell me what you find confusing about what I had said there and I'll be happy to explain it. I have re-read what I said and see nothing ambiguous or contradictory.

shadowminister,

I am simply stating the facts. Nothing in what I have said should indicate that I am tying myself in knots. You, on the other hand, appear to be poking prodding, altering your wording ever-so-slightly each time, in the hope that something will eventually get through or slip past unnoticed.

Saying that "the legal system often uses 'innocent' to mean 'not guilty' within the confines of a trial" is very different to saying that "Pell was found innocent by all 7 high court Judges" for reasons I have already explained.

mhaze,

One clarification I probably should make is that while the terms "innocent" and "not guilty" might be used interchangeably during a trial, they are never used interchangeably in a judge's decision.

I believe shadowminister is suggesting that the latter is the case. If so, then he is incorrect.

clarification or correction?

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Kathleen Folbigg had her convictions squashed today based on the new evidence which created a level of reasonable doubt that she killed her kids. Lucky Foxy didn't have her way, otherwise Folbigg would still be behind bars! Oh wait, I forgot...you only discard reasonable doubt for people Foxy hates.

I do not hate Cardinal Pell.

It's his behaviour that I found shocking.
And the fact that he got away with the harm he did
due to an outdated judicial system.

I do not believe that the Cardinal was an innocent
man. The legal technicality on which he escaped
did not exonerate him in my opinion.

The abuse allegations against him go way back to the 1960s.
And in Ballarat his reputation was also well known.

I challenge anyone to read the book - "Cardinal: The
Rise and Fall of George Pell," by Louise Milligan. With
a Foreword by Tom Keneally. And still insist that the man
was innocent.

In any case - hopefully, the Cardinal's case will force
the Church to not brush complaints of sexual abuse by merely
transferring its clergy to other parishes to continue their
work. Perhaps stronger action will result. As it should.

Although I won't be holding my breath. Sexual abuse seems to be
a part and parcel of the Catholic Church for decades.
I know - I've grown up hearing about it for most of my life.