This is the anniversary of 9/11.

Many deluded people have fallen victim to wild and fantastic conspiracy theories that WE did it to ourselves.... to provide an excuse to invade Iraq etc..and get their oil. Just like the real incident of the Gulf of Tonkin in Vietnam to justify attacks there.

Looking at Flight 93 evidence ALONE, such conspiracy theories are exposed as not just human delusions, but as close as malicious political/social terrorism and treachery as it can get.

THEORY "Flight 93 could not have made cell phone calls with available technology in 2001"
FACT Flight 93 never went above 40,000 feet, 2001 technology allowed Cell phone use up to 50,000 feet.

THEORY "There were no human remains at the crash site."
FACT. Those who went there, including the coroner found many human remains/body parts.

THEORY "Flight 93 was 'shot down' by a white aircraft.
FACT A white small civilian white aircraft was DIRECTED to look at the crash zone to see what had happened, by the Air Traffic controller who was interviewed.

THEORY "There was wreckage up to 6 miles from the crash site, showing it was shot down"
FACT Yes..6.8 miles BY ROAD, less than 2 miles as the crow flies.

THEORY "No significant airframe parts were recovered"
FACT The nature of the crash was such that very few parts of any size would be left. (the physics of the impact)

FACT. The number of relatives who spoke to their loved ones on the plane..the number of families who lost loved ones.. the unbelievable idea that they all have been secreted away in some 'witness protection' conspiracy cover up location.. it defies the imagination and STIRS the soul to attack this betrayal of our freedom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories#Claims_that_Flight_93_was_shot_down
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93

I totally agree Boaz.

Its the sort of claptrap that the extreme left love to spout. The conspiracy theorists are almost always pseudo-intellectuals with too much time on their hands. Were it not for the footage we would have the leftist morons trying to tell us it never happened at all, that really its just the gov't trying to control us using 'FEAR'.

Such people probably also had trouble with the BOOGIE MAN

Pay television indeed has had some VERY interesting items on 9/11 now the sixth anniversary is here. The cover up of it all. The warnings were many. Bush looks SO guilty in all his interviews. I am here to say to look up the 9/11 Timeline as put together by Paul Thompson. This individual has pieced together everything and it surely makes for interesting reading. Google "Paul Thompson" if you're interested further. The Jersey wives (4 widows of 9/11), have done more to investigate the towers than the government ever would. 190 million dollars was put to investigating Clinton and his sexual exploit yet initially only 3 million to the commission for 9/11. 14 months later the commission started the investigation (March 2003). How timely of them.

Ah Crackers um I meen cakers,

Believe in Ghosts and vampires too mate? Look nothing this big can be covered up not in this day and age perhaps the 60's but not now. These widows you refer to needed somthing to hold onto cant begrudge them that. Ask any lawyer you can twist just about anything to serve a purpose its the motive in this case that I find chilling.

Nevertheless it was Rumsfeld himself that referred to those people who "shot down that plane" over Pennsylvania in a TV interview.
A slip of the tongue or just a slip?

There are literally hundreds of anomalies and unanswered questions about the official story. The way it has been constructed- if a single fact is shown to be deliberately untrue - the whole thing falls apart.

BOAZ,
A few of your FACTS are suspect.

Mobile phone technology in 2001?
http://physics911.net/cellphoneflight93
The 3G and CDMA "pico-cell" technology that allows mobile calls to work in these circumstances was only developed and tested by Qualcomm in 2004.

Crash debris?
http://flight93crash.com/flight93_secondary_debris_field.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/attack/flight93site.html
Seems like the some of the plane fell off during descent?

The mystery plane?
Authorities said they believe the plane was a Falcon 20 private jet that was headed to nearby Johnstown but was asked to descend and survey the crash site. Yet officials have never identified the pilot nor explained why he was still airborne roughly 30 minutes after the government ordered all aircraft to land at the closest airport.

The mobile phone calls from the passengers all stopped about 9:58 a.m. - roughly the same time that a caller to 911 in Westmoreland County stated there had been an explosion.

The plane didn't come down until 10:06 - leaving an 8-minute gap of unaccounted for air time, and thus a great mystery.

As crazy as some of the "conspiracy" stories sound, they are no more ridiculous and unlikely than the official story we have been fed.

What's also interesting is how all the initial TV news reports (like eyewitness reports from the Pentagon) that contradict the final story have never been officially shown since, only the "approved" ones that fit.

Probably not all that taseful to open this thread on that date .

May they rest in peace

While the others rot in hell

Their memory stands us all united against evil

Lest We Forget

PALE.. I feel it is verrrry appropriate to open this thread on this day, because as Wobbles post shows.. there are those who would seek to attribute this horrific action to ourselves. (no offense Wobbles)

The thing your post (Wobbles) fails to consider.. (among many things)
is that the interaction between the families....the wives of husbands who took back the plane.. was real... you can go and ask them today about it.. the idea that these glorious heros did NOT die, is so beyond preposterous it defies the imagination.

By all means have conspiracy theories about 'Illuminati' and secret societies, and a 'they' who are all on the same side across our obvservable political boundaries.. (like the Fabians)..I don't have a problem with those theories.. they all have an element of truth or believability in them...but 9/11 in my view is a 'no-go' zone.

It was too public, to horrible.

Notwithstanding all that. There is a video out there..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXL5kYZ2bTU
Suggesting that Rockafella 'knew' of some 'big event' coming up..and that this bloke Aaron Russo might like to 'join them' ...

I report...you decide. It's a curious one this, but does not explain even a tiny bit of how it might relate to 9/11

I offer this vid, to show that I'm not blind to all sides of the picture.

One thing I know... if we have faith in human institutions, we will be dissappointed, dissillusioned and in despair.

"My kingdom, is not of this world" you know who :)

BOAZ,
I never suggested that these people were not killed.

The common suspicion is that the plane was shot down deliberately by intercepting military aircraft and another more palatable version was created for public consumption.

The problem is that historically, when an official version of events is sanctioned by a prevailing government- no matter how bizarre - the supporting media just falls in line and the past is adjusted to fit accordingly. (Just like the character Winston Smith's job in the novel 1984).
Mislead or stonewall but never refute seems to be the general strategy as this makes any dissenters seem more sinister.

If there is definitive proof of anything it should be released to the public in its entirety, otherwise it just keeps fanning the flames of suspicion and makes it seem like they have something to hide.

Cakers

Paul Thompson’s website is contributed to by people who see flying saucers and want area 51 opened up so we can all see the little green men from mars. It is the furthest thing from rigorous, historically accurate investigation imaginable.

If you want to see all of these ridiculous claims debunked go to popular mechanics website. These guys actually know about airplanes, communications gear etc. Their book “Debunking the myths of 9/11” is fastidious in its approach to disproving the commonly repeated pseudoscience the 9/11 deniers throw up.

9/11 conspiracy theorizing isn't an intellectual exercise. It's a non-religious cult.

Have a look at these sites before you go making your insane claims
http://www.debunking911.com/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=8
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

These contain scholarly articles by actual engineers or scientists, not fantasists with a paranoid outlook.

Wobbles

Carnegie Mellon researchers produced a study that monitored spectrum frequencies generated by cell phone transmissions during commercial passenger flights. They found that an average of one to four cell phone calls is made during a typical flight. Furthermore, of the 30 calls from Flight 93 all but two were apparently made from AIR PHONES, not cell phones, with the cell phone calls apparently happening late in the flight when the jetliner's altitude was low.

I’ve been to see the website you posted to show that cell phone call couldn’t have been made from the plane. Mate you have clearly got no idea what a scientific article looks like. None of their claims are backed up by scientists. An airline pilot is not an expert on cell phones. What you will also notice is there are never any references to primary sources. It all, “I’ve heard’ or “someone said” etc.

Indian Lake is 1.5 miles southeast of the crash site. The wind that day was a north westerly. No body parts were found at Indian Lake only light debris that had been thrown into the air at the time of the crash. See the popular mechanics site for a photo of the area.

All the claims your sites make are thoroughly debunked by scientists.

Paul L,
I'm afraid that the Popular Mechanics debunking has problems of it's own in several areas and many other "experts" and scientists have taken issue with some of it as well.

As for the wreckage, It was reported by the Post-Gazette that "workers at Indian Lake Marina said that they saw a cloud of confetti-like debris descend on the lake and nearby farms minutes after hearing the explosion that signaled the crash at 10:06 a.m. Tuesday." Indian Lake town is about three miles from the crash site, but the Marina is closer, about two miles from the crash site.
http://post-gazette.com/headlines/20010913somersetp3.asp

Human remains and distances?
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/s_12967.html

Initial eyewitness impressions of events are usually closer to the truth in most situations. At the Pentagon several on-site news reporters independently said they were confused when saw no evidence of any plane wreckage but historically we have been told otherwise.

If believing that the official 911 story is 100% correct in every way helps you to sleep better at night, then go for it.

Ask yourself, how much of it has to be proven to be deliberate lies before you have any doubts? 50%, 10%, 5%, 1%?

Some of the conspiracy theories mentioned in the opening post are tame in comparison to some of the others I have read. I can dig out some details later, but the theory centred around the belief that the 911 crashes were all orhestrated by Jews and were a Jewish plot to get the US to invade the Middle East as it was in the interest of the Jews and Israel of course for the ME to be turned into a pile of rubble. The facts? supporting the theory included such stories as all Jewish residents/businesses vacating the twin towers before the crashes. You know.....because they knew what was about to happen!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories

This is a starting point for those interested in finding more about the wacky conspiracy theories. I'm not sure how much of what I mentioned in the above post is contained in the Wicki article. Read it to find out.

After the murder of John F Kennedy it is logical.
Who would have thought that during the Cold War with the Soviet Union that there woulld be a new enemy. Well we have a formidable scapegoat now.

Would you care to elaborate Bronco. What is "logical"? Conspiracy theories or a new enemy replacing the Soviet Union?

DITCH.. welcome :) Yes.. there are some very whacky ideas out there.
I'm still wondering though, about the interview with Aaron Russo..and his 'Rockafeller' connection..I honestly don't know what to make of that. If you have any thoughts, I'd be interested to hear them.

BRONCO..yes..can you elaborate there ? You mean 'The War on Terror' ?

Mate.. I hope not. It was with us during 'democrat' years.. Clinton.. so the current US government did not 'make it happen'...

Please have a listen to this mate.. it will open your mind to some very real concerns many of us have.

http://www.chbcaudio.org/podpress_trac/web/276/0/04-09-07.mp3

I've provided this link in other threads..its so important to grasp what is going on mate..

cheers.

Wobbles,

I would like to see the evidence of any of the Popular Mechanics explanations being suspect.

If your contention is that the plane exploded first then why is the debris field all in front in the direction of travel. Any aircraft that blows up and then crashes will leave debris trailing behind it.

There were dozens of people who saw THE PLANE fly into the pentagon. But you don’t believe all the eyewitnesses, only those that fit your fantasies.

The two news paper articles don’t disprove the official version of the events in any way. They get the distances to the lake wrong by a factor of more than 4. You should have a look at any actual crash investigation report. These guys making the claims aren’t crash investigators. There is no real science here, just pseudoscience, which works well on the thick and easily led.

The 9/11 deniers haven’t even got close to showing that 1/10 of 1% of the official version is not true.But I’ve no doubt they’re aware that David Irving makes a good living out of denying the holocaust.

Mate if it makes you feel better to believe in vast conspiracies and little green men, you can be my guest as well

Boaz, I'm not familair with the Rockefeller connection you refer to. I'll check it out.

Intersting audio clip and one that expresses the fears many people hold for the Muslim religion or atleast the version adhered to by the extremists.

This is going to be around longer than the JFK asassination and will outlive us all. Everybody knows it was Lee Harvey Oswald acting entirely alone because the Warren Commission said so and governments never ever lie do they?

If it wasn't for the fact that the USA entered two World Wars and several other smaller ones because of suspect circumstances I would find it easy to dismiss, but like a large number of New Yorkers I think there is a lot more to this story than we have been told.
Not just from the government. Nobody talks about the organised looting of the site that was being carried during the clean-up by firemen and police because it goes against the popular sentiment but it did happen.

Paul.L

there is much dispute about the Popular Mechanics version of parts of the story.
Much of it comes from scientists but here's a summary - http://www.serendipity.li/wot/pop_mech/reply_to_popular_mechanics.htm

I agree with wobbles when he says that early eyewitness reports seem to be ignored and only those that fit the story are ever repeated.
Here is part of a CNN report live from the Pentagon just after the explosion. http://thewebfairy.com/911/pentagon/

There are many others as well as eyewitness radio reports that say the same things. How can several eyewitnesses see vastly different versions of the same event?

If the nearby surveillance videos that were siezed by the FBI afterwards support the official story then they could put an end to all of the speculation right now by releasing them, but like the accidental Zapruder film of Kennedy being shot, it suggests at least the possibility of a slightly different version of events. If the Zapruder film never existed would we tend to believe the official version more readily?

I think a lot of the stories out there are crazy too but there are many other things that don't add up.

This is just one that interests me -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,584444,00.html
and
http://emperors-clothes.com/misc/lefigaro.htm

This story was leaked by French Intelligence in retaliation for the anti-France statements being made by GWB. He shut-up just afterwards.

Paul L

8 miles is a long way for wreckage to blow in the wind at ground level in any direction, but not so far to fall from a great height.

These reports were independently made before the official story came out so why would they deliberately lie? Perhaps the facts were later adjusted to fit the story.

Also, Despite the Hollywood scripted version of events on that flight, there is still a lot of dispute about the alleged phone calls (Barbara Olsen's in particular) if you care to look further.

Hey, but don't take my word for it, here's a remark from Donald Rumsfeld

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6Xoxaf1Al0

This is just like the global warming issue. If you believe in it you are gullible and naive, if you doubt it you're miguided and in denial.

"Work hard, consume, be silent and die" - that's all we are supposed to do.

Anyway, everybody knows that the little men aren't green, they're grey.

So Wobbles, tell me what you believe really happened and the why's and wherefore's and so on. Simply making an irrelevant comment about global warming with the hope that it will strike a cord of reality with your conspiracy theories does your cause no good at all

Ditch,
My comment about global warming was entirely relevant because there are people on both sides alleging that the other side is involved in some sort of conspiracy. Surely they can't both be right can they?. Look at arguments from both sides and make up your own mind.

As for what I personally think happened, who cares? I don't know any more that you do but I honestly suspect that what we have been told is not the full story.

For example, I just can't accept that a bunch of Arab playboys got past all the military security and intelligence systems of the United States so easily, despite multiple warnings from other agencies, without some sort of inside information or phenomenal luck. I don't believe the US government did it but they really seem to have gone out of their way to let it happen.

I'm also fascinated by things like the notion that the passport of one of the pilots being miraculously found intact in the pulverised rubble of one of the towers, yet the same man later found to be still alive and living overseas. Little things that don't quite fit and some amazingly convenient coincidences - not those crazy theories about remote controlled planes and so on.

As for Flight 93, it may indeed have been shot down and the truth covered up to maintain national morale for what was to come. My main point all along was that many initial independent eyewitness accounts often get ignored in preference for the ones that better fit the script. That doesn't make them wrong, just inconvenient when you are trying to create a particular image.

Read the 911 Commission report for yourself and then see what information and testimony was not allowed to be included and then ask yourself why. Otherwise just believe the Hollywood version and stay happy.

WOBBLES... there is ONE scenario which I can imagine will take in ALL the evidence.

1/ There was a genuine plot by Al Qaeda
2/ This plot was detected at some level of the US oligarchy.
3/ They considered that this genuine plot could in fact ADVANCE their own agenda's.
4/ They pulled strings to allow it to happen.

Such a scenario of course implied 'betrayal' on the part any individual involved, but politics and power being what they are it is unlikely that any would ever face trial.

This is the only explanation which actually takes the Aaron Russo interview into consideration and gives it any weight.

Now..having said, we now find ourselves on 'planet wild theory' where we would be starting to mention 'Illuminati, Freemasons, Rothschilds' and all manner of speculatory ideas.

I don't have any seriously provable scenarios there.. it just spins out and spirals into pin the tail on the political/conspiracy theory donkey :)

Even IF..we could identify 'Person A, B, and C and secret society X, Y, Z, - without a bit of 'clout' and solid evidence... it would be an uphill battle to do much about it.

I don't mind getting my teeth into something solid. But this kind of thing is just toooo flimsy for me.

I'll focus on exposing 'Western Decadence' :) and 'Islamic Decadence'.. it's more compatable to my own committment as a Christian.

BOAZ: "But this kind of thing is just toooo flimsy for me.

... my own committment as a Christian."

Can anything be too flimsy for someone who claims "committment as a Christian"?

Wobbles said,"My comment about global warming was entirely relevant because there are people on both sides alleging that the other side is involved in some sort of conspiracy. Surely they can't both be right can they?. Look at arguments from both sides and make up your own mind."

You see Wobbles, the global warming debate does NOT revolve around a conspiracy. The debate concerns conflicting opinions many of which are scientifically based. The interpretation of the evidence is controversial. BUT, there is no conspiracy to do with the mainstream debate. There may be in some peoples' eyes such as yourself but not to the majority. There is no similarity whatsoever between the debate on global warming and 911 that you claim. The point you make concerning this is a red herring.

Then you say "who cares" when I ask you what do you think happened. Are you saying then that you believe there is a conspiracy but don't know any details, any reasons why anyone or any group would have perpetrated this conspiracy? You don't know anything that supports your argument?? You just find it impossible to believe / comprehend what happened. Wobbles, it happened. It was a terrorist attack. Accept it. There is no conspiracy, no Jewish plot, no CIA, FBI coverup. If not, then give me some evidence, not just your opinion based on nothing other than your inability to comprehend.

My understanding of the truth about all of the conspiracy theories, as a committed christian of many years, is that the devil made them do it. If you believe in the great spirit war on earth between God and the fallen arch angel Lucifer/satan, as hundreds of millions of christians do, its quite easy to understand whats been going on. Satan is the real source of all of the conspiracy theories; and it is being done, pay attention, by the fallen spirit realm in order to destabilise peoples faith in good governments and committed intelligence agencies. Like the increase in dark music, what a massive backsliding since the early 1950's, its all a part of the demonic teardown of modern society. All in all, the overall fruits of the demonic work are fear, suspicion, doubt and a wondering away from the Holy Bible a good solid values. This is what we are seeing. I know a good lady who really believes that bombs were planted in the twin towers by the CIA and when the planes hit the bombs went off as well. The CIA plan being to start a war with Iraq and grab the oil. Even good people can get wrapped up in conspiracy theory if they dont understand the spirit conflict and how it works. Ephesians 6:12-18 speaks about the dark powers above the earth who manipulate men.

Of come on! Admit it. It was the Easter Bunny. Enough of the nonsense.

Ditch,
In case you hadn't noticed, there are already a lot of facts out there that support both sides of the argument and many of these are also scientifically based.
It's the facts that don't fit the official account that are the problem for me, like named suicide pilots turning up alive elsewhere.
Even growing public opinion in the USA suggests that there is doubt over the official account.

For the record, I accept that global warming is an evidential fact and the arguments against it seem flawed and many come from vested interests.
However, the only proof I have that it exists is what I have seen and heard but I accept it to be true because it just makes sense, unlike the 911 commission report or the Warren commission report into the JFK asassination.

Also, the last time I looked, this site was actually called on-line opinion.

You are free to express your opinion Wobbles. Just don't expect me to not exercise the same freedom.

You say "public opinion in the US" is increasing it's doubt over the findings. Well I wonder why and if in fact this is the case. What are the figures? It's a very vague statement to make in support of your case. And a dead pilot turning up somehwere? You'll have to do better than that if you are to convince me of anything.

Atleast you haven't claimed it all started with rock n' roll and the work of the devil.

Wobbles,

You are in great company. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols also thought that the US gov’t was involved in a huge conspiracy. If it’s Americans like this you are relying on to prove widespread support for your pseudo science based fantasies your chances of convincing any NORMAL person are miniscule.

Who are the named suicide pilots who are still alive?

In 2001 the BBC and the Saudis claimed that four of the hijackers were alive and well Waleed al-Shehri, Abdulaziz Al Omari, Saeed Alghamdi, and Khalid al-Midhar were all initially alleged to be alive. Both the Saudis and the BBC have since retracted their claims because they were WRONG. In is now widely accepted that these men WERE on the 9/11 flights. So who is this mystery man?

I challenge you to provide any inconsistencies in the 9/11 commission report.

The Timeline

8:19: Betty Ong, flight attendant on Flight 11 alerts American Airlines via airphone

8:46:40: Flight 11 crashes at roughly 490 mph (790 km/h or 425 knots) into the north face

8:52: A flight attendant aboard Flight 175 calls a United office in SanFrancisco, reporting that the flight had been hijacked”

This is really the earliest anyone could say with any certainty that this was a coordinated attack

8:56: The transponder on Flight 77 is turned off and primary radar contact with the aircraft is lost

9:01: FAA's New York Center tells Air Traffic Control System Command in Virginia, "…. We need to get the military involved ... we have other aircraft that may have a similar situation going on here."

9:03:11: Flight 175 crashes at about 590 mph (950 km/h) into the south face of the South Tower of the World Trade Center

9:28: Hijackers storm the cockpit on Flight 93 and take over the flight.

9:37:46: Flight 77 crashes into the western side of the Pentagon and starts a violent fire

10:03:11: United Airlines Flight 93 is crashed by its hijackers.

In a little over an hour after enough information was available to suggest that a concerted attack was underway, all four planes had crashed.

Ditch,
Polls
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/13469
http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855
http://www.thepowerhour.com/news2/911_polls.htm
http://www.scrippsnews.com/911poll

Paul.L.

Here’s a more detailed timeline with many cross-references.
http://www.911timeline.net/

Note the NORAD involvement and the supposed response incompetence.

If this attack on National security warrants an investigation of the highest order, why destroy Air Traffic Controllers recorded evidence?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A6632-2004May6

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/06/national/06CND-TAPE.html?ex=1399262400&en=3473eb2aa7591d4e&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

Where are the BBC and Saudi retractions of the hijackers identities?
Except for a few references to possible identity theft I can find nothing. If it was identity theft then who were they really?

My concern with the 911 Report is the omissions. They only looked at counter-terrorism and none of the related factors that could implicate insiders. It seems as if the outcome was decided first and then only those supporting factors were included.

Where were the testimonies of -

Ex- CIA Director George Tenet who would state that the Government had advanced warning of the attack.

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta who would tell of Cheny’s involvement in the shoot-down orders in relation to the Pentagon attack.

WTC janitor William Rodriguez who told of explosions in the basement of the North Tower just before the first plane hit. (Photos also exist of the aftermath of these explosions).

FAA counter-terrorism expert Bogdan Dzakovic who told of a deliberate federal policy to reduce airport security prior to the attack.

And why did GWB insist of being interrogated in private, accompanied by Cheney and that no audio, video recording or written notes be taken during the interview?

(Continues)

(Continued)

Other 911 report issues related to this thread include several reports stating that prior to crashing, Flight 93 was being tailed by US military fighters.

One came from CBS; another came from a flight controller who had ignored an order not to talk to the media; and one such report even came from Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz.

The Commission's own timeline, besides being contradicted by other reports, is also contradicted by James Bamford's account, which is based on a transcript from ABC News.

According to this account, Cheney's authorization was transmitted to Colonel Marr at NEADS, who then "sent out word to air traffic controllers to instruct fighter pilots to destroy the United jetliner." Marr reportedly said: "United Airlines Flight 93 will not be allowed to reach Washington, D.C."

The Commission's account is contradicted by reports that the shoot-down actually occurred. Major Daniel Nash, one of the two F-15 pilots sent to New York City from Otis, later reported that after he returned to base, he was told that a military F-16 had shot down an airliner in Pennsylvania.

Besides ignoring all these reports, the Commission also ignored reports from people who lived near the spot where the airliner came down.

There is still evidence suggesting that the FAA notified the military about Flight 93 in time to respond effectively, that Cheney went down to the underground shelter about 45 minutes earlier than the Commission claims and that he gave the shoot-down authorization about 25 minutes earlier than the Commission claims. (From more testimoney not allowed to be heard).

I still believe it is possible that military jets went after and shot-down Flight 93.

I think we should just agree to disagree and let history decide.

Wobbbles, you'll believe what you choose to believe. You'll believe the "other" story because for some reason you like to see a conspiracy at play. While you've admitted otherwise now after I called you on it, you saw the global warming issue as a conspiracy.

No matter how much this is debated you choose to believe certain comments and half truths as being the basis for your conclusion. Go ahead. I've got better things to do with my evenings than to debate ad infinitum over an issue that a small minority choose to accept as the truth.

'A small minority'. Equally a vague statement.

We do not know one way or the other.

Wobbles,

On 27/10/2006 the BBC issued a statement in their Editors blog, stating that the initial allegations in their 2001 article were a result of mistaken identity. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2006/10/911_conspiracy_theory_1.html

For a complete refutation of the claims that any of the hijackers are still alive http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/05/david-ray-griffin-115-things-he-gets.html
This is definitely far more rigorous in its investigation than the 911 timeline you gave.

They claim that the USAF was so advanced that the attacks simply couldn’t have happened without collusion. This is clearly a claim by someone not particularly knowledgeable in areas of defence.

The missing recording, while strange, wasn’t actually primary evidence. It was, as the article states, the recollections of a group of traffic controllers on audio tape after the event. All of their actual communications during the hijack were captured and presented as evidence.

I see you are not just arguing that the US allowed it to happen. You are now also suggesting that they actually had a hand in destroying the Twin Towers using demolitions.

Re Tenet. It’s one thing to suggest that there were warning signs that an attack might be being planned. It’s a whole other thing to suggest that the warning signs were ignored so that the attack could take place. You switch between your theories whenever it serves you. Instead of making the simplest conclusion which is that 20-20 hindsight is a powerful thing, you make the wildest jump to suggest a conspiracy.

So the ABC news is the correct and unimpeachable well from which all 9/11 facts spring? You must be joking.

Even if I agreed with you that they shot down flight 93, that still wouldn’t suggest that there had been a conspiracy to allow the attacks to occur. There would still be virtually no evidence that US intelligence encouraged the attacks and absolutely none that points to the US as the actual perpetrators of the 911 attacks.

Its easy to pick holes in any complex chain of events as there were literally 10’s of thousands of people involved. Try producing an alternative scenario and see how many holes we can pick.