In March 2020, the science community went all in on claiming that there was no evidence that the dreaded Covid19 virus was created in a lab - that instead it was natural.

This was a relief for the Chinese who were absolved of any wrong-doing. Since Trump had suggested the virus was Wuhan lab creation, it was a relief also for those who reflexively assumed whatever Trump said was wrong.

A high profile paper published in Nature Magazine wrote: “Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus,”. The paper was used to 'disprove' the lab leak claims by social media censors to suppress any claims that it was a lab leak.

In recent days, its been revealed that the authors themselves didn't believe their paper. Writing privately to co-authors, the paper's lead author wrote "“[The] main thing still in my mind is that the lab escape version of this is so friggin’ likely to have happened because they were already doing this type of work and the molecular data is fully consistent with that scenario,”. Other authors wrote in similar terms.

So why lie? Dr Fauci, the head of the US NIH, had already begun moves to push the anti-lab leak claims. NIH had been funding research at the Wuhan Lab. It seems from research done by Senator Rand Paul, that this funding was illegal. Hence Fauci's desire to kill any implication that the lab was involved.

It also seems that these lying authors were on the brink of getting a $8.9 million grant from NIH, pending Fauci's approval. (As they say, follow the money).

There are now growing calls from high profile institutions and scientists for the paper to be withdrawn.

The lab leaked theory was called a right-wing conspiracy theory. Trump was pilloried. Other scientists were ostracised and censored.

It now seems they were right. The dreaded virus was designed in a Chinese lab. The only outstanding issue now is whether it was released accidentally or on purpose.

As with the claims about the vaccine, we were lied to.

Taken from the BBC:

"Given the massive human toll of the pandemic with the
recorder deaths of about 6.9 million people worldwide -
most scientists think understanding how and where the
virus originated is crucial to prevent it happening again."

Prof. Dale Fisher, of Singapore National University
Hospital told the BBC that:

"We do need to be a bit patient, but we also need to be
diplomatic. We can't do this without support from China.
It needs to be a no-blame environment."

There's more at:

http://bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57268111

Dear mhaze,

You claim: "It now seems they were right."

Rubbish.

And old news.

The discussion between the authors were before they had completed their analysis and should be taken in the context 'until we know more everything is on the table'.

Ultimately the lab developed theory, based on their analysis, could not be sustained.

"The features in SARS-CoV-2 that initially suggested possible engineering were identified in related coronaviruses, meaning that features that initially looked unusual to us weren’t.

Many of these analyses were completed in a matter of days, while we worked around the clock, which allowed us to reject our preliminary hypothesis that SARS-CoV-2 might have been engineered, while other “lab”-based scenarios were still on the table.

Yet more extensive analyses, significant additional data and thorough investigations to compare genomic diversity more broadly across coronaviruses led to the peer-reviewed study published in Nature Medicine. For example, we looked at data from coronaviruses found in other species, such as bats and pangolins, which demonstrated that the features that first appeared unique to SARS-CoV-2 were in fact found in other, related viruses.

Overall, this is a textbook example of the scientific method where a preliminary hypothesis is rejected in favor of a competing hypothesis after more data become available and analyses are completed."

Facts be damned, eh?

The paper was offered for publication in mid-Feb 2020. The conversations between the papers authors where they acknowledged that it was more likely to have been a lab leak took place between January 30 and Feb 28 of that year.

"Richard H. Ebright, the Board of Governors Professor of Chemistry and Chemical Biology at Rutgers University, said " “Newly released messages from the authors show they did not believe the conclusions of the paper and show the paper is the product of scientific fraud and scientific misconduct.” Repeat" "scientific fraud and scientific misconduct.”

" “In fact there is no evidence for either of these conclusions, and the email and Slack messages among the authors show that they knew at the time that this was the case.” Harrison.

A petition is circulating to force a retraction of the paper.

Even if what SR says is true, that new information supersedes the findings in the paper, then retraction would be called for. But alas.

And even if all that is true, it would expose how fraught it is that social media fascists like Facebook would censor contrary views based on what is now known to be wrong. Yet as Foxy has shown elsewhere, the global warming cult is trying to censor contrary views in those same social pages based on uncertain data.

Fascism is the collaboration between government and big business to run the nation. We are closer to that than is comfortable.

Dear mhaze,

Wrong again. What Foxy is trying to show on another
discussion is that misinformation about climate change
continues to try to influence decision makers and
members of the public, including misinformation
disseminated on social media platforms.

Facts be damned eh?

"So why lie?"

Maybe because it wasn't the only lab that had containment breaches.
http://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/health/germs-fort-detrick-biohazard.html
*Take note of the dates here.
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/respiratory-illness-sickens-dozens-at-virginia-retirement-community/148617/
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/health-officials-to-give-update-after-respiratory-illness-sickens-dozens-at-virginia-retirement-community/135890/

These locations are actually quite close to one another.
http://tinyurl.com/pu7de9m7

Dangerous lab leaks happen far more often than the public is aware
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/30/lab-leaks-shrouded-secrecy

Have you actually looked into existing policies for containment and quarantine of staff after a lab leak?
It's really bad policy, they just send staff home to quarantine after an event and the staff themselves are trusted to report changes themselves.
- It's not the kind of foolproof protocol one would expect let me tell you.
I watched a video on it a few years back, not sure I'd be able to find it now sorry.

You're quick to jump to blaming the Chinese, but do you understand you're only thinking what you think because you are a westerner.

If you were Chinese, reading Chinese news, you might be making the exact opposite assumptions.

U.S. closure of Fort Detrick lab not coincidental: expert
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-08/04/c_1310107970.htm

What happened in the US after the emergency closure of Fort Detrick?
http://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202107/29/WS61027e0ca310efa1bd665573.html

And what was 'Event 201' all about in October 2019 just prior to the outbreak, 'Mr. I'm so certain'?
http://centerforhealthsecurity.org/our-work/tabletop-exercises/event-201-pandemic-tabletop-exercise

"The Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security in partnership with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation hosted Event 201, a high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY. The exercise illustrated areas where public/private partnerships will be necessary during the response to a severe pandemic in order to diminish large-scale economic and societal consequences."

*Emphasis: October 18, 2019.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic

"The novel virus was first identified in an outbreak in the Chinese city of Wuhan in December 2019."

*Emphasis: December 2019.

[Cont.]

And what about the fact that Coronavirus was detected before that?

Researchers find coronavirus was circulating in Italy earlier than thought
http://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27W1J2

ROME (Reuters) - The new coronavirus was circulating in Italy in September 2019, a study by the National Cancer Institute (INT) of the Italian city of Milan shows, signaling that it might have spread beyond China earlier than thought.

*Emphasis - September 2019

As usual, you are just trying to reinforce your pre-existing beliefs and biases.
I knew about this stuff AT THE TIME IT HAPPENED (mhaze),
- Because George Webb was covering it and I was following him at that time.

George theorised that it was released by the West at the Military Games in Wuhan in October 2019.
http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=virus+released+at+wuhan+military+games

- FYI, I personally don't know what the truth of this was or whether George changed his opinion or stuck to it.
I always took caution as to whether the virus was engineered as a bioweapon.
I didn't want covid, or the vaccine either.
- But I did have Covid (or at least think I did - I got sick but never got tested, just self isolated) - twice after the pandemic was more or less already over and infections had been decreasing already for some time..

(Same as I knew about the Russian language ban in 2014 because I was following the events - I probably got the info from Lee Stranahan, who was the only serious western commentry on the Ukraine situation from the time of the Maidan and prior to Russia formally recognising the independence of the LPR and DPR and entering the conflict in 2022, but I digress)

Facts be damned ALL OF YOU....
Sorry to throw a wrench into your narrative...

And Foxy,
Are you talking about yourself in the third person or do multiple people share your account?
I've got no problems if hubby's chiming in btw,
Maybe he should get his own account or maybe you should change your alias to Foxy and Co. or something.
[shrugs shoulders]

"As with the claims about the vaccine, we were lied to."
- I won't argue with you on that one.

But I tried to warn you all at the time.

Some of us here are unvaxxed and proud, (me for one) so you know where I stand on that.

Too bad for all the people who believed the advice without any reservations, just went along with it and suffered side effects (or just dropped dead for no apparent reason), or their kids got sick or died, and the guilt those parents carry for believing the lie -
- Especially after the guilt, coercion, intimidation and shaming many received from the pro-vax camp as well as every business moron jumping on the bandwagon.

Jeez, I even remember Jims Moving chiming in,
Every damn business and multinational was promoting it.
paying people, offering incentives, and 'hate' and 'derision';
- well it was rife towards the unvaxxed
Every single channel, every single newsreader.
Every. Single. Day.

I remember the pro-vax opposition I got from many here.
Many sheep have blood on their hands for that damn mess.
Some of you lot may have conveniently forgotten but I haven't.

AC whines:" You're quick to jump to blaming the Chinese, "

You're right. The Chinese lab was doing research into the various corona viruses. The out-break occurred in China. Chinese scientists moved rapidly to hide papers on their research. Chinese scientists were among the first to die from the virus. Other Chinese scientists involved in the research have simply gone missing. China tried hard for over a month following the out-break to hide it and then tried hard to hide information about human to human transmission.

You're right....why would I think China has anything to do with this?

But AC, please note, this isn't about China and their bastardry in regards to creating and disseminating the virus. This is about US scientific efforts to misled the public as to the origins of the virus and how those efforts morphed into censorship and cancellation of people trying to tell the truth. Its a lesson from the recent past as to how the powers that be are manipulating data and facts to their financial and career benefits and how the media is complicit in that manipulation.

Facts about issues as diverse as vaccines, lockdowns, climate change and aboriginal history are being distorted and manipulated and then run through corporate media filters to ensure the public get and believe only approved opinions.

And its extraordinarily dangerous, although as we see even in this group, many refuse to see it.

Anyone reading posts by SR, & their anti OZ anti western values in general should keep well in mind, that in all posts he is preaching from the lefty hymn book.

The left are becoming more dangerous to our wellbeing daily. Communism can do no wrong in the eyes of this lot.

mhaze,

You are a typical Trumpster, full of conspiracy theories, just like Trump himself, exaggerations and extrapolations abound in your paranoid thinking. Maybe there was Chinese scientific involvement in the development of the Covid virus, until there is a thorough independent investigation into its origins we wont know.

One thing we do know, it was Trumps inability to deal with the Covid situation, and his inability to lead America in a pandemic crises that led to the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

As usual, Paul is hopelessly out of date. He gets a notion in his head that suits his prejudices and no amount of contrary data is ever gunna fix it.

It seems that anything Paul doesn't want to be true is a conspiracy theory. Of course, when those conspiracy theories turn out to be true, there's no chance Paul will learn from his error. Indeed there's no chance Paul will even realise his error.

Here's something else for Paul to ignore - the latest data shows that the US covid death rate has been heavily over-estimated. I've already shown Paul that the Chinese death rate has been heavily under-reported, which, as usual, Paul failed to understand.

Oh dear, the Trumpster is at it again, his evidence for mass Covid deaths in China. He produces an unsubstantiated "document" supposedly from a small Provence in China, unsigned, it could have been a fabrication, don't know. There is a reference in this "document" referring to cremations in the Provence for one quarter in 2023, as the "document" disappeared from view, it could have been an erroneous document placed on the internet by error or by a another party, with an axe to grind against China, heck it could have been posted by mhaze himself, we don't know. mhaze then in true Trumpster style, proceeds to extrapolate this cremation number over the entire Chinese population, over many years, he then concludes that these cremations must have been the result of Covid, millions of deaths all over China. Well other than for American toady's like yourself, I don't think your evidence would stand up with the real thinking persons.

mhaze, during Covid were you taking the advice of the Dangerous Doctor Donald, and swigging from the Pine-O_Clean bottle, whilst shining a bright light up your arse? If not, why not!

"The Chinese lab was doing research into the various corona viruses."

The contract to do the research in China was outsourced by Fauci and the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) in the US to EcoHealth Alliance, because the US had laws prohibiting gain of function research.

- And they're still doing the same thing.

http://www.ecohealthalliance.org/2023/05/collaborative-research-to-understand-the-risk-of-bat-coronavirus-spillover-emergence

They haven't learned anything, and the US protocol for reporting and quarantining staff after a breach is grossly inadequate anyway.

From memory, the whole mess is tied up with NIAID, EcoHealth Alliance, Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (largest WHO donar) and Wellcome Trust.
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-events/potential-and-challenges-mucosal-covid-19-vaccines

"NIAID partnered with the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovation, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority, and the Wellcome Trust to develop the workshop."

"The out-break occurred in China."

Maybe, maybe not.

It sure didn't happen in the Wuhan wet market, and I was saying that since Day 1.

"But AC, please note, this isn't about China and their bastardry in regards to creating and disseminating the virus. This is about US scientific efforts to misled the public as to the origins of the virus and how those efforts morphed into censorship and cancellation of people trying to tell the truth."

You do realise that the only nation that had all 5 strains of COVID was the US, China only had 2 of the strains, what does that tell you?
Hint: Maybe it didn't actually originate from there, but was made to look like it?

- I don't know the truth.

As for misleading the public, yes there certainly was a lot of that.
A lot of people died from the virus, many had underlying issues and poor immune systems from age, and a lot of people suffered side effects and died from the vaccine, and many are still yet to suffer the effects of the vaccine which I'm told has shortened the lives of many. Many are still walking around by their lives will be cut short at some point as a result of the vaccines side effects.

I opposed the virus (didn't want to catch it when others said it was just the flu) I opposed the vaccine, but I was actually somewhat tolerant of the lockdowns as I thought it might prevent the spread and result in a reduction of unnecessary deaths.

But that said I live in QLD and our lockdowns were nothing like what southerners had to endure.
Many say those lockdowns had a huge impact and cost many lives as well.
And we won't even talk about the amount of people who were purged from their jobs from refusing to take the vaccine.

[Cont.]

- My tolerance btw for the lockdowns was only accepted with a level of animosity and blame towards the government, who I felt failed to have any sort of reasonable plan to quarantine the country from a foreign contaigon in the first place.

I'm not necessarily trying to defend the Chinese, but I would've closed the country to not just the Chinese entering the country but everyone as well a whole lot sooner and be damned what the Chinese or anyone had to say about it, (truth be told the virus came here from Europe and the US)
I'd given Aussies 2 weeks to come home and organised flights for them, but then the country would've been closed until further notice.
It was a necessary measure - if only to build up quarantine facilities offshore or away from cities and prepare the health system to cope with what might eventually come)

I'm just saying we really don't know where it started, and Scomo getting pushy with the Chinese resulted in billions in lost revenue through tariffs and lost exports.

"The contract to do the research in China was outsourced by Fauci and the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID) in the US to EcoHealth Alliance, because the US had laws prohibiting gain of function research."

Yes. Exactly. The research was being done in China with the active encouragement and financial support of the US. At least that's how it seems. Whatismore, the US financial support for this was probably illegal under US law. This is the position of Rand Paul.

All of that provides the reason why Fauci et al would be anxious to discredit the lab leak theory. All of that will play out over time in the US and hopefully the truth on that will finally be resolved.

But the point at the moment is that the scientific community were saying one thing about the origins of the virus within their private circles and the exact opposite in public. Not only saying what they knew to be false in public, but actively seeking to censor those who were telling the truth to extent of even trying to destroy the careers of the truth-tellers.

That is the lesson that needs to taken from this.

An interesting article from the BBC on the issues
that need to be taken from all of this:

http://bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57268111

As I said, the issue here is that the scientific community deliberately withheld the truth about the origins of the dreaded virus.

In that same vein, revelations in the Senate are both interesting and disturbing. Senator Roberts was interrogating a rep from Pfizer about their vaccine. Pfizer admitted that they imported a special batch of the vaccine solely for the use by their staff but unavailable to the general public. That is, they didn't want to give the vaccine that they were pushing into our arms, to their own staff!!

Nothing will happen. No consequences. Pfizer has immunity from all consequences of their failed vaccine - immunity given willingly, even anxiously, by our government.

"But the point at the moment is that the scientific community were saying one thing about the origins of the virus within their private circles and the exact opposite in public."

Well truly, it happened in clear view.
Instant authoritarianism.

If significant numbers of nurses on good money opposed the jab and chose to to quit their careers instead of taking it wasn't a red flag;
- Then the gag orders placed on doctors most certainly was.

"Pfizer admitted that they imported a special batch of the vaccine solely for the use by their staff but unavailable to the general public."
I didn't hear about that, from what I knew vaccine employees just didn't take it at all, and were not forced to.
"That is, they didn't want to give the vaccine that they were pushing into our arms, to their own staff!!"
- I think staff refused to take it.
Well, that's what I heard but I can't be sure I remember the story correctly, been a while since I followed any of the COVID related events.

And they banned Ivermectin and Chloroquine even after studies showed the treatment has promise (Ivermectin) and was proven to be safe for use.
- That's probably another red flag there.

So many people could've been saved from the vaccine side effects, and people could've been given more of a choice without the shame, coercion, guilt and hostility.

It really is an example of how people can so easily be manipulated into becoming a hostile angry mob driven by fear, in relation to a particular issue if you think about it.
But then I feared both COVID and the vaccine, so I can't really talk.

The most disgusting thing about the whole episode was the virtual banning of ivermectin, & hydroxychloroquine, making it very difficult for the public to get.

I refused the jab, & went through a fair bit of difficulty importing ivermectin from India.

When I finally caught covid my treatment with my ivermectin had the infection stopped & gone in just 52 hours.

I wonder how many were killed by the lack of access to this drug? & I do mean killed. Those who banned it should be up on murder charges.

Watch this

“Yes, People Were Forced To Get The Vaxx!” – Australian Politician Tells Pfizer Execs
http://youtu.be/BBWTBaCqnBQ

Kudos mhaze.