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The Forum > General Discussion > The year of enforcement - Secondary sanctions.

The year of enforcement - Secondary sanctions.

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Hi AC,

There is a reason I keep mentioning Japan an Germany. The United States had an unprovoked war with them. It defeated both nations. Today Japan and Germany are prosperous and peaceful democracies. This contrasts with your narrative where the United States is out to start a war with Russia, destroy it as a nation and steal its resources, which is a good reflection of Putin's paranoia.

What is clear is that Russia is intent on destroying Ukraine as a nation, murdering the population and stealing its resources. It is classic Russian rhetoric to accuse critics of engaging in the same conduct, no matter the hollowness of such accusations.

https://apnews.com/article/medvedev-nuclear-putin-arrest-warrant-germany-ukraine-6dcde92e06f41a7c5cb7386f7939df33
Posted by Fester, Monday, 10 April 2023 10:55:50 AM
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"The United States had an unprovoked war with them. It defeated both nations. Today Japan and Germany are prosperous and peaceful democracies."

I wouldn't necessarily say that it was completely unprovoked.
In the case of Germany, I think Hitler was a bit twisted invading Poland, France and other countries, but the West saw him as a threat as a rising power after he turned the country into an economic powerhouse after the days of the Weimar Republic.
Hitler I believe had some resentment going back to WWI, after Jews convinced the US to enter the war with the promise of the return of the Jewish Homeland under the Balfour Declaration.
- The US entered WWI, Germany ended up losing and faced massive hardship and reparations through to the Great Depression, before the rise of the NAZIs.

In Japan the US followed a policy called the McCollum memo, to provoke Japan into going to war as they saw them as a rising power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCollum_memo

The US sees any rising power as a rival or enemy.
- There's always a little more to the story than the one they teach us as kids.

The US has been doing this type of thing, going all the way back to 'The USS Maine and spanish mines in Havanah Harbour'.

Even Vietnam was started with a lie to counter communism
"In August 1964, the U.S. entered the Vietnam War based on reports of an unprovoked attack in the Gulf of Tonkin — which the president knew were false."
http://allthatsinteresting.com/gulf-of-tonkin

Wasn't the Boer War something to do with Cecil Rhodes and Rockefeller?
Crimean War all about Christians in Palestine between Napolean, Ottomans and Britain V's Tsar Nicholas?

So many wars, and so many casualties over stupid disagreements that others can somehow capitalise from.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 10 April 2023 11:27:28 AM
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As for the AP article link, the US has used exactly the same kind of language in it's own Hague Invasion Act.

http://www.diplomatic-council.org/node/432

"In that year US Congress passed the American Service-Members’ Protection Act, nicknamed ‘The Hague Invasion Act’. It mandated, among other things, the use of “all means necessary and appropriate to free US or allied personnel detained by or on behalf of the ICC.” Moreover, in September 2018,US national security adviser John Bolton threatened the ICC with sanctions and to criminally prosecute ICC officials – if the court formally proceeded with opening an investigation into alleged war crimes committed by US military and intelligence staff during the war in Afghanistan or pursued any investigation into Israel or other US allies."

- In the case of the US, their rhetoric is about any US or allied personal in regards to their own war in Afghanistan, and we shouldn't forget their War in Iraq started over non-existent WMD's.

- In Russia's case the threat it to their President itself, not just Russian personel.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 10 April 2023 11:38:42 AM
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Thanks for that AC. You are very knowledgeable and forthcoming with information as always. Rather than getting bogged down in the significance of things like the McCollum memo, I would instead ask you to think about the outcomes, like the prosperity and freedom of German and Japanese citizens today. Are they full of conspiracy theories about the great Satan America secretly plotting their downfall as many Russian citizens do? How do living standards and the economy of Russia compare with Japan and Germany today? Perhaps that is what Gorbachev was thinking about when he had talks with Thatcher and Reagan and decided to end the failed Soviet experiment? Putin's nostalgia driven insanity only reinforces my respect for Gorbachev's decision and his ability to make it happen.
Posted by Fester, Monday, 10 April 2023 4:40:21 PM
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"You are very knowledgeable and forthcoming with information as always."
- I'm not really all that knowledgeable, I just know a few things but am no kind of expert on geopolitics.

"I would instead ask you to think about the outcomes, like the prosperity and freedom of German and Japanese citizens today."

Well I think maybe Germany and Japan kneeled like a slave does in subservience before their master (the US), where Russia never did.
But the US was doing it's best to rob everything the former USSR had at the end of the cold war. You talk about the Russian oligarchs being bad, the West did not do anything to help Russia during those hard times, just put it's foot on its throat, robbed the place and declared itself king of the unipolar world.

The US allows you to have some level of prosperity if you kneel before your master, they send in their business interests and capital for investment and won't instead work to sanction and overthrow your country.

It sounds a little bit far fetched but in truth there may in fact be some truth to this.

"How do living standards and the economy of Russia compare with Japan and Germany today?"
- They both need Russian energy and will suffer greatly without it.
Europe will not be as prosperous paying 4 times the price for US LNG, and buying Russian oil through third parties like China and India, and Japan has, they will lose their industries to the US, China or other South East Asian nations. Japan has an exemption on purchases of Russian energy.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/japan-breaks-with-u-s-allies-buys-russian-oil-at-prices-above-cap-1395accb

Let's see how Europe goes next winter...
- meanwhile

German insurers renew cover for blast-damaged Nord Stream gas link
http://www.reuters.com/business/energy/german-insurers-renew-cover-blast-damaged-nord-stream-gas-link-2023-04-04/

You do realise destroying Nordstream was a part of US policy don't you?
I've shown the link enough times but I'll add it again:
http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html
(There's an image of Russian and US chess pieces with 'Read online' underneath it at the top of this webpage, click it)

"CHAPTER THREE
Measure 2: Reduce Natural Gas Exports and Hinder
Pipeline Expansions"
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 10 April 2023 7:41:58 PM
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'and Japan has' - scratch that from my last comment, it was written in error.
Posted by Armchair Critic, Monday, 10 April 2023 7:44:30 PM
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