Part 1
About a month ago Energy Minister Chris Bowen said to reach the aim of the government’s co2 level by 2030 would require 22,000 solar panels to be installed every day for the next eight years. Additionally it would require 90 wind turbines to be installed every month for the next eight years !
I have heard nothing of this massive engineering project starting or employment campaigns to man it.
The last month means 22,000x30=660,000 panels has to be added to the eight year total. So 220 more each day or 22,220 have to be installed each day so far.

The solar farms will be all over the country side and away from the ports. So presuming a semi trailer can hold 220 panels in their packing, it means that 101 semi trailers have to arrive at the sites every day. As it would take a day to load and travel to the site then unload, then a day to travel back empty would mean 202 semitrailers would be needed. However taking into account days off and regulation rest periods, truck maintenance etc it probably means that about 300 trucks would be needed.

Of course my figures should be adjusted if more panels can be loaded onto a semi-trailer or even id B-Doubles are used.
Either way it is a major operation that has to continue EVERY day for eight years. Someone has to buy and maintain the trucks.

Then how many panels can be mounted and connected to the already installed wiring in a day ? As they are working in the open they must have wet weather gear available and a truck(s) to move the panels around the site. A meal hut, toilets etc as is necessary on all building sites must be provided on each site. As these sites will be at varying distances from major towns accomodation must be arranged for the site workers and some meal provision will also be needed. At least one bus per site will be needed to transport the

Nobody knows what is going to happen in 2030 or 2050. And, no: they don't appear to be living in the real world.

Hi Bazz,

This is where my 'Seniors National Service' cuts in. It will involve a little bit of light work for the old folks, no one over the age of 102 will be forced into labour. According to me there are 2.6 million aged pensioners in Australia, applying the 'seven dwarfs' principle, many hands make for light work, there will be something like 371,428 and one half teams in the field installing solar panels among other light duties, pot hole repair is a popular task with old people. If the Chinese can build a 1,000 bed hospital in a week, then 22,000 solar panels a day should be a piece of cake for my team of old folks. Agree?

Does Paul 1405 really think he is funny. He's worse than the failures showing up to audition for Australian Idol.

People put up a serious question, and this f..kwit pops up.

Still on the subject of the idiocy of climate change and unreliable, unbelievable alternatives spouted by Boof Bowen, people of unfunny Paul's sort are trying to disrupt SA's Tour Down Under because it is sponsored by SANTOS.

Yesterday, madwomen between the ages of "58 to 78" were arrested for standing on the road displaying their horrible old breasts and backsides, holding signs proclaiming that they had "TRIED POLITE".

ttbn you want seriousness, on the subject.

"According to Bowen, it’s estimated Australia must install 22,000 500-watt solar panels every day for eight years along with 40 seven-megawatt wind turbines every month – backed by at least 10,000 kilometres of additional transmission lines."

Politicians are very good at throwaway lines, and the above may well be a statement of fact by Bowen, but the reality is follow up with a concrete plan to achieve the desired outcome is most necessary.

As dimwitted as you are, even you understand the importance of having a concrete plan, and it wouldn't be such a bad idea if people with their snout in the government trough like YOU, were made to pay a little for all those years of taxpayer largesse you have received.

Paul

You are even sillier when you try to be serious. You are now passing off what a supposedly knowledgeable Minister is assuring us will happen as a 'throw away line', which makes all your Green hysteria bullshite as well. You are an extremely illogical, wishy washy wacko.

Continued, sorry limited by max post size,

At least one bus per site will be needed to get workers to the site.
workers to the site. If two shifts a day are worked then twice as many men will be needed.

Next a team of electricians will be need to check the operation of the panels and their connections.

Oh I forgot before all this can be done the site has to be cleared and levelled. Then thousands of mounting frames will have to be made, galvanised, transported to the site the site and concreted into place, no small task on its own.
While all this is going on the substation will have to be built and the power line constructed to the nearest point of the grid.

As well as all this activity wind turbines will have to be installed at a rate of completion of three every day.
As large amounts of cement will be needed every day at remote sites I cannot calculate how many cement trucks would be needed.
Probably a cement plant would be installed at each site and the cement, gravel etc brought in by truck if enough water is available on site.

Significant earth moving machinery would be needed for each site to prepare for turbines ever day depending on how many turbines have to be completed for each site each day.

Do you think the Public Service took all this into account when telling the minister that 22,000 solar panels a day and 90 wind turbines a month are needed ?

I don’t think they have a clue !

Unfortunately I had to wait until the first post was approved and as I
do not get notifications it had to wait till this morning before I could post the rest.
As it is a couple of days since I fist started to write this it means
that another 44,000 panels will have to be added to the number to be
installed before 2030.
Can you see why this whole project is in La La Land !
It seems that nowhere in the planning is there an engineer with
experience in organising major projects of this nature.
If I, with only experience in very small projects, with one small team,
can see the impossible task for 8 years then there is no hope for a
reliable electrical system.

No ttbn, Paul for once is right, it was just a throw away line to
make himself look good and look as though it is all go.
Have any contracts been let ?
If the installation rate is far below the delivery rate of the panels
and turbines a very large warehouse will have to be built or rented.
22,000 panels a day for 8 years is 64,240,000 panels at 500 watts is
32.12 Megawatts ! That cannot be right. Where have I gone wrong !
22,000 x 365 = 8,030,000 million panels a year.
8,030,000 x 8 years = 64,240,000 panels installed in 8 years.
64,240,000 x 500 watts = 32,120,000 watts or 32.12 Megawatts !
only while the sun shines.
It is total BS and shows Boofhead Bowen never does simple arithmetic
to check what he is told. It is not just a throw away line it is a
positive lie to deceive us that something is being done.
The calculation result has to be 32 gigawatts to be realistic.
The installation rate of panels has to be 22,000,000 panels a day to
turn Bowen's lie into truth.
Where have I gone wrong ? it is easy to drop a few zeros on calculators.
I have always said many people have no idea of the scale of power
generation and anyone speaking out should be taken on a tour of a
large coal fired power station.
These people "Really are STUPID !"

Hi Bazz,

Politicians use that kind of aspirational speak all of the time, rather than a commitment to an objective, they choose to use statements of fact or a desire as a mask for their own lack of commitment.

Who can forget Hawke's aspirational statement in 1987; "By 1990, no Australian child will be living in poverty." By the use of the word will rather than should Hawke made an aspiration into an election promise, he never intended to follow through with that, as he had no concrete plan to meet the objective, but then during election campaigns promises win votes, aspirations don't.

Bazz, do you you live in the real world?
I ask because this thread makes it look like you're living in some bazaar Soviet fantasy where the government dictates where everything will go and how it will get there!
In reality the government doesn't know and doesn't need to know. The private sector will organise it all, and will probably do so more efficiently then central planning could.

Preliminary work on a windfarm off the coast of New Jersey USA has resulted in the deaths of 7 humpback whales in one month.

The $35 billion plan - into which went $14 million taxpayer dollars- dreamt up by Forrest and Canon-Brookes is kaput. This brainstorm was to send solar power 4,200 kms to Singapore. But, it's not. It won't be part of Boof Bowen's Powering the Region fantasy.

Boof's fantasies are a lot more dangerous and lunatic than "throwaway lines"; especially when his raving involves $420 billions worth of doing crazy things.

Shonky Dear Boy,

Give us a link, then I can "investigate" for myself. In my wife's lingo a "meme" is not something you want to share with others. you do it alone in the wharepaku. This 'Australian" isn't it a part of the Murdoch Gutter Press, never to be believed with its fake news, and downright lies! Anyway she's one of yours, not one of ours.

Again you lie!

"LEOPOLD of Anhalt-Dessau, known as 'Old Snoutnose', set psalms to march tunes and devised the 54 movements of Prussian drill, including the ceremonial march-past with unbent leg that came to be known as the goose-step." YOUR DEAR OLD UNCLE SNOUTNOSE no less! What do you say to that?

Just when we were becoming forum pals once more, you start calling me names, do you have no shame?

Don’t vote.

It only encourages the idiots.

The Old Nasty likes to beat up a story when it suits him.

"Over the weekend, a 30-foot humpback whale washed ashore in Atlantic City, its cause of death unknown. It was the third dead whale to appear on the Jersey Shore since December — fanning the flames of protestors who say wind farms are killing marine life."....."Though the effects of electromagnetic fields on marine life are not well studied, their (whales) deaths likely were caused by other factors."..."necropsy results are pending".... 'Philly Voice'. Jan 10th 2023.

ttbn,

Injuries to some of the dead wales off NJ suggest it was collisions with ships that killed them. It's too early to say if the preparatory works for wind farms was a contributory factor in any of their deaths.

As for Sun Cable, there seems to be a disagreement between MCB and ATF over whether a cable all the way to Singapore would be economically viable. I very much doubt it: I think Singapore could get the same results more cheaply with nuclear power. It doesn't make sense to use batteries to shape output to baseload to fit it through the cable and then to shape it again at the other end.

But though (IMO) an ultra long undersea electricity cable from Darwin to Singapore doesn't make sense, shorter cables do. I expect Sun Cable will eventually be a big part of that, supplying Indonesia (and possibly Timor Leste) rather than Singapore.
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Paul,
I think you're conflating posters. I've made the same mistake in the past.

Come on Aidan be realistic. Indonesia has lots of coal, & they unlike us are not stupid enough to fall for expensive unreliable power, when they can generate cheep, reliable power at home.

Buzz

I did spell it with a 'a', but when the spell check corrected it twice I thought, 'to hell with it'. Why should I worry about a bloke I agree with who decides to tell me that I am wrong and that Paul the Illiterate is right about the meaning of a 'throw away line'.

I don't have any friends here, so I'm going to point out what a bunch of idiots the non-Left posters are - uselessly arguing with nitwits like Paul and Foxy instead of siding - even occasionally - with people with the same or similar values.

Whatever education these non-Left posters have had, it didn't include that age-old truth that it is more productive to back your allies than it is to argue with opponents.

The Left is good at it. Look no further than Paul and Foxy: they stick together like s..t to a rug. Our side, including the so-called conservative politicians, don't want to upset anyone; and they vainly think that they can convince rusted on Lefties of the error of their ways.

It is not the Left that I blame for pouring society down the toilet; it's the Right for allowing them to do it.

Just a month after Ockernese's you-beaut, communist- style price controls, gas retailers are knocking back new customers and putting up their prices to existing customers. Supplies are in jeopardy.

Ah, the genius of Leftist economic policy. Stand by for the Socialist Soviet State of Australia.

Aiden, nevertheless that was Bowen's statement.
He obviously did not check it.
Were my calculations as simple as they are near correct ?
If they are Boofhead Bowen is STUPID !

Bazz, ttbn wants to be loved, he is crying out to be loved, please give him some love. I tried but he rejected me, now he's desperate for some good old fashioned love.

I do not think some of you understand how serious the government is on
this whole 8 year project.
It is the justification for the government to levy taxes and charges
based on the belief that we will have plenty of power by 2030 as the
co2 reductions come into force.

Aiden, I agree that major companies would be eager to take on the
various site projects. Do you really think that it can be afforded
when it has to 1000 times bigger than Boof Head Bowen tells us ?

What is the power output of the largest panels. So far as I have been
able to ascertain 300 watts seems near the highest for the latest.
I know how surprised I was to find that many turbines are in single
figure Megawatts,

As we are flat out shutting down power stations now they will have to
get a move on. There will be a long queue for modular nukes.

ttbn, I don't care what you call me, so long as you don't call me late for dinner !

Hi Bazz,

We may not agree on the validity of human induced climate change, but one thing is certain, Australia is committed to transitioning away from fossil fuel energy production and towards green new energy. We could argue until the cows come home about the validity of such a move. The reality is there has to be concrete plans in place for the implementation of such an energy program. Aidan is right in saying; "The private sector will organise it all, (well maybe not) and will probably do so more efficiently (probably)", however government does have a vital roll to play as well, as a facilitator, if not with direct involvement, and with policy offer the private sector inducement and direction. If there are areas that the private sector is unwilling or incapable of instigating then its up to government to step in and take over. Action is needed now, not tomorrow or next week, now!

Bazz,
The stupidity is yours, not Bowen's. The reason you think the task is a thousand times bigger than its actual size is that you multiplied by 0.5 instead of multiplying by five hundred.

But calculation errors are not your only problem. All those solar panels aren't just one big project; there are lots of little projects. Solar panels are going up on rooftops as well as just big solar farms. Not all the new solar farms will be in remote locations, and some will be shipped part of the way by rail.

'Tis still a big task in absolute terms, but not a huge portion of the size of the Australian economy. We'll need more truckies and fewer coal miners; swings and roundabouts! What with more automation and more investment in rail, there's unlikely to be a severe shortage of truck drivers. But if there is it's not a catastrophe; we can always recruit more from India.

I didn't call you anything, Bazz; the spell check just insisted on Buzz, but Bazz seems to be OK as long as it's not the first word.

As I said, I agree with you. But, after all the crap you got from the usual idiots, I have to say that there will be no change for the next three years, with politicians too dumb to learn from the lessons of European stupidity on unreliables, and with no effective opposition, we are stuck with things they way they are. As soon as any government pokes its nose into commercial matters best left to the private sector, chaos can be expected.

There's a good rule that I keep breaking myself: ask yourself if there's anything you can do about something bugging you; if there is, do it; if there is not, forget it. It's natural to have opinions and express them, even when you are powerless to make changes, as most of us are. But, there is no point in arguing with people who disagree with you. They are entitled to their opinions, and you are entitled to ignore them.

Aiden, where did I multiply by 0.5 ? I thought I worked on 300 watts per panel.
Are you suggesting that I multiplied by 0.3 and that is wrong.
The info I have been able to ascertain is that each panel is 300 watts.
My calculation was 22,000x365x8x300= 64.24 million panels.
64.24x300=19272 Mwatts !

AHHHH YES I did get it wrong, it is 19 Gwatt.
Well yes that is more like it. Thanks Aiden.

Trouble is I just can't see it being built in 8 years.
And that is where the problem lies.
If we shut down power stations where will we get electricity ?

Paul, well the oil companies have said it, they will exit the oil industry
over the next indeterminate years. The fracking is already dying and
the current major fields will probably be the last as they squeeze the
last out of them.
For coal, I wouldn't know how long they would last at a higher rate
although some talk of hundreds of years.
None of us will be here when that happens.

It's all rubbish. There is no prospect of Australia reaching Net Zero by 2050 and meeting the stupidly legislated target. The nitwits won't be prosecuted for failing to abide by their own legislation. And Australia will continue to limp along, a failing economy with naive politicians at the helm who are desperate for easy headlines to drown out cost of living complaints.

ttbn,
There's a very high chance of us reaching net zero by 2050 and meeting the pathetically legislated target. We will need more meaningful targets, but the scaremongering has to be comprehensively debunked first.

Australia doesn't need to limp along - we have what it takes to lead the world.

I heard a comment being made on radio early today by an unknow person
in government. It was about coming legislation on co2 producing industry
legislation. The speaker pointed out that a plant in Australia that
produces Euroa will cease business when the law takes affect.
It means that Australia will have to import it if allowed.
This exactly what caused Sri Lanka's economic collapse.
I know we all think politicians are stupid but to close a plant
producing an important fertiliser then it shows that;

THEY REALLY ARE STUPID !

Where did I hear that before ?

I yes I remember, when they were stupid enough to allow the blowing up
of coal fired power stations before the replacement was up and working !
Oh Dear Oh Dear, will Doctor Who come and save us ?