Hi Helen
I don't actually think the issue is one of forgiveness. Do you really think Tony Abbott needs to be forgive for having pre-marital sex all those years ago... because he is also a Christian?
And as the leader of the opposition i think it is good he has an opinion on this moral issue. He would know his opinion to be unpopular electorally... and I don't necessarily agree with it... but hey he is entitle to his opinion and it is consistent with his faith.

The hysteria over what Tony Abbott advice to his daughters, is a clear example of how some women, will verbal men, and add meaning that is not there.

They will extrapolate the orginal intention and in the process the what was really meant gets trampled by the oestrogen fueled stampede.

So it takes a really brave man, that is prepared to offer his opinion in this socalled patriarchial society(sarcasm).

The greatest sin of Tony Abbott in this matter is that he conviced his girlfriend at the time to put the child up for adoption for fear it might ruin his own political ambitions.
Shame on you Mr Abbott, you have absolutely no platform for giving advice on how people should live their lives.

Here comes the self righteous pontificators who obviously very keen to take Abbott out of context. The fact that in answer to a question from a women's magazine he said the best advice to a daughter is not to give your virginity away lightly has got the feminist in hysterics. He could be like many secularist and encourage their daughters to spread their legs cheaply which seems to be the only other logical conclusion. No wonder the baby killing rate is so high. Any half reasonable father would give the same advice as Abbott. Those who threw away their own virginity like an empty milk bottle knows this better than anyone. No wonder the godless religion of Islam is growing so fast with views and distortions like the author of this article.

Abbott can be called a hypocrite. In his own defence he could say that he would like young people to learn from his mistakes, but nobody under 25 is going to take any notice of that. They all think they no better than oldies.

The point is, however, Abbott's advice is not bad. Most young people act more like barn yard animals (whe it comes to sex) these days.

You have got to be kidding Helen Dale. If you've been forgiven for a past literary controversy - which in fairness we can put down to youth and naivety - then why can't the same courtesy be given to Tony Abbott? People make mistakes in their youth. Some are bigger than others but it doesn't really matter. They then grow up and as mature adults they can express their opinions on things like morality.

If you note that shame based societies have high suicide rates then how on earth can you advocate that we shame Tony Abbott?

>> We have - according to quite a few people ... become shameless.

Thank you, David Jennings, for pointing out the elephant in the room.

The findings of the Monash authors with respect to the Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma are very intriguing. If a 30% forgiveness rate is evolutionarily sustainable, the immediate question is who should determine how the forgiveness is distributed. What about issuing everyone with tradable forgiveness credits, like carbon credits, which sinners could buy at market rates from the righteous?

Intriguing or not, it's difficult to see how relevant this article is to Tony Abbott. After all, as the authors say in their abstract:

>> The Iterated Prisoner’s Dilemma is a game-theoretical model which can be identified in many repeated real-world interactions between competing entities.
http://www.springerlink.com/content/w37q548422001858/

Before applying their conclusions to our opposition leader's behaviour, one would need to establish which are the competing entities here. Is there an aggrieved party? Who then? Is the offence of a degree that warrants the kind of sanctions modelled in the Iterated Prisoner's Dilemma?

Next one needs to determine if this particular piece of behaviour falls with the 30% to be forgiven or the 70% to be punished.

All a bit binary to me. Smite vs not-smite is an over-simplistic way of responding, which makes no reference to the context of the "offence". Real-world adults are able to modulate their responses, and consider the circumstances.

Far be it from me to defend Tony Abbott, but when he speaks as a father about his daughters, I find it difficult to see how it's my business, let alone work myself into a lather of vengefulness.

Tony, there are no votes in this comment. fancy promoting decency in a depraved society

Yep, most politicians are hypocrites, Abbot more so than most. In his defence, I'd say most parents would rather their daughters kept their virginity. I'd rather he kept an eye on the priests though before lecturing kids. There is still a *big* problem with tolerance of systematic child abuse in the church. (respect for power is dangerous)
It is not a bad thing to remind polies, but lets also keep in mind that most of us rutted like animals in our teens and early 20s. I suggest that older folks pull their heads in and understand the urge rather than change their minds when their libido drops. (It looks silly to the youngsters and loses them credibility.)
Tolerance can certainly be taken too far. Game theory shows that organisation beyond about 20 people is only possible when parasites (rule breaking self-profit maximisers) are identified and punished. I honestly believe we have *many* parasites in modern society, but we can afford them because of the incredible wealth generated by modern technology. Of course the US has just shown what tolerating the likes of Bush can do...make decline absolutely inevitable.
We need to learn from this and *not* tolerate the real evils: Unjustified warfare (too expensive!), unjustified profits (profit skimming, profiteering, accounting fraud), excessive debts, unwinnable and wasteful conflicts (war on drugs).
In general: waste and untruth should not be tolerated by both sides of politics. Then we could actually trust them to argue the real points instead of playing shadow puppets with the issues.

What is there to forgive? Tony Abbott made a decision in his past and now regrets it. Completely his perogative. There is no right or wrong here. One man's opinion, no matter how old fashioned, does not a policy make.

Tony Abbott is as morally genuine as a three dollar bill....he has to be to be a party politician.
Should we forgive him for that? it is *his* choice of career and *his* choice to be hypercritical pontificating on morals for political reasons.
It is our right to choose not to believe him, and view him for what he is an ambitious liar or a manipulative mad monk.

If he was just talking (which I don't believe)to his girls that's fair enough but to do it publicly put unreasonable public and personal pressure on them. Would you publicly put your children under that pressure, Ive two daughters and I wouldn't (patriarchal overbearing).He clearly no feminist or egalitarian.

The most likely reason was playing to the morally conservative ...look what a good Christian moralist/father I am....image..
Me personally, using ones children like that shows his naked ambition above all else.

Prime Minister material? Clearly he come fist and every thing else including the privacy and integrity of 'his' girls way behind. and us the voter? you figure it out , I'm beginning to.

Helen's paranoid vitriolic outburst directed at Tony-the-monk Abbott, is only half right. Branded as a hypocrite, double-crossing womaniser, ultra left-wing charlatan, etc her castigation is as spiteful as her apparent quest for notoriety and forgiveness !

There is no wrath - like a woman scorned !

Can we take her rancorous hesteria seriously ? Unlikely.

The Honourable member for Warringah (1994-2010) a London born silvertail, says it all. Ex Rhodes scholar, with a string of Academic accolades ; he literally towers over his Parliamentary contemporaries, on both sides of the House. Quick off the mark, his lightning ( middle weight ) boxer reflexes, and nimble mind has often sloshed him into hot water. Some deserved, others misinterpreted. Mostly, the media circus squads and paparazzi have twisted his utterances out of context to suit their gnomic minds and ill gotten agenda. Make a mountain out of an insignificant mole hill - sells newspapers. It's a notorious Fairfax / Murdoch modus operandi. Whatever, next ?

HD belabors the point about TA's youthful exuberances with his campus girl friend. Until now,the gory details have been media expurgated. What a sassy revelation ! That marriage at the time was anathema, especially while pursuing their studies, it appears now, he is being crucified for abandoning his parental obligations,during the ill fated pregnancy ? Either way, like loaded dice, he's a born loser. Fortunately, subsequent DNA testing exonerated his guilt ( aah, the beauty of science ) but indirectly cast's aspersions on another person's loose morals ? Paternity suits can undo so much hyperbole.

Not once, in my recollections has TA aspired to Mary McKillop's sainthood or miracles, unlike Helen's involvement with the clergy. She prefers to believe all that sanctimonious drivel, her indulgent parish priest eulogises, rather than belief Abbott is anything but " perfect ". Perfection btw, is an unattenable mythical ideology, and surprise, surprise exists only in Utopian fantasy. Besides, how really well are we acquainted with our local Padre ?

Only the other day, I saw one in an Adult shop. Another time, in the Races, with a manage-de-trois Marilyn Munroe..

Thats a bit harsh dalma. Helen Dale's article is perhaps not very well thought out and poorly phrased but it doesn't warrant a rebuke that is that strongly-worded.

Helen, its probably not the brightest thing to take full aim at a member of your alma mater. But leaving that aside, perhaps more thought and less hyperbole?

I agree with the points Woulfe made and perhaps the most shocking thing is that I'm defending Tony Abbott. Perhaps this was reverse marketing all along :-o

continued..

platinum blonde lookalikes !
Surely, she is not suggesting desperate " seppuku " - ugh hari-kiri, as an early alternative for his trivial vocal misdemeanours ? Petty, petty.

It's beyond an intellectual joke, that someone would want to see another's downfall, simply because one disagrees with her cause ? As a practising Counsellor, she is beyond redemption - who would engage her ?

To his credit, Abbott has always worn his ethics on his sleeve. Devout to the point of recklessness, he espouses the Catholic dogma against abortion, contraceptives, loose morals, etc precisely as advocated by Pell, Pope Benedict XIV, the Vatican, etc. As Health Minister: " we have a double standard, when someone who kills a pregnant woman's baby, is guilty of murder ( in the eyes of the Law ) but a woman who aborts an unborn baby is exercising her right of choice ". He riled against the 100,000 abortions performed in Oz, 2004. Vehemently opposed the drug RU486, and an outspoken critic of UK based "pink and blue" testung kit, to determine the sex of the foetus.

He has been a moral crusader since his seminary days, and for those infanticide perpetrators, give him some credit at least.

Finally, he should be applauded for his solidarity and consistency.
By the swing of things, Tony Abbott is destined for larger things. He would get my vote for PM and the Lodge, any day.

The point is, however, Abbott's advice is not bad. Most young people act more like barn yard animals (whe it comes to sex) these days.
Posted by Leigh, Friday, 29 January 2010 10:58:15 AM

Correction: most young people, in particular, females between 14yrs-18yrs are LURED to be raped and sexually assaulted after being drugged via ONE glass of alchohol [at 15yrs generally at a sleepover with boys texting to offer their FIRST taste of alcohol]. Following assaults, the majority of teenagers I know, then commence sleeping around casually, thinking it will psychologically assist them. Some suicide, some end up with chronic eating disorders, some abstain from sexual intercourse for years. Generally there are validated 'reasons' for young people sleeping around. NO YOUNG PERSON should be EVER compared to barnyard animals if they are not hurting themselves or any other person. An ARCHAIC and OUTDATED IGNORANT NARROWMINDED term and statement Leigh. Tony Abbott SHOULD think about how his statement would affect young rape victims I deal with.

And Darma: never trust a politician who is a christian hypocrite. He does not practice what he preaches. The day I first clapped eyes on this politician and observed his body language: was the day I viewed his lack of intelligence and lack of foresight, unrealistic ideals, and shrewdness. Of course, Tony Abbott would make a statement along those lines: most Australians are of christian background: non-practicing or not, and what a blackmailing statement psychologically and publicly, to load upon one's daughters.

Those that spruik too soon.....his daughters have a way to go yet....and there is always ONE black sheep in every family. Poor man...I hope he wont be too let down and embarrassed.

'we are unique' is so right in feeling sorry for the poor Abbott daughters. How much pressure must they now feel to display virginal behaviour at all times until they are married?

Catholic (and other patriarchal religions) men have always ranted and raved about the sanctity of the female virgin. While the women are often found out if they are not virgins on their wedding night, not so the men!

What a wonderful life these supposedly pious men had back in the bad old days before contraception and the dawning of the wonders of sex for women began.

They could run around and have sex all they liked, and then tell the little woman they married that they came to the marital bed as virginal as their beloved.
No wonder many men would love to go back to these days!

By the author's standards, unless she is a paragon of virtue, there is no reason why she should not be shamed for her opinion every time she makes a hypocritical statement, particularly if she is not woman enough to admit her mistakes.

As I understand it, both in the church and in our courts of Law there can be no forgiveness without genuine remorse, ie I made a mistake, I intend to learn from it, and I won't do it again.
I smoked for more than 30 years. Am I a hypocrite for warning (very strongly) my daughters against smoking? No one who has never smoked can appreciate as strongly as I, how badly it affects one's health, and how good you feel when you finally beat the addiction.
Similarly, I would rather trust a driver who has had many accidents, and has thereby learnt how to respond to those situations, than someone who has somehow managed to live an entire life without an accident. Such a person is far more likely to be dead lucky, than a great driver.
Having said that, I still don't like the sanctimonious Abbott.

This whole cheap gossiping about Tony Abbot merely re-inforces the stupidity of the righteous participants.

The funniest carping comes from the nations chief spinster. Like really what young woman is going to heed the advise of a middle-aged spinster ahead of the advise of her father...

It is my experience with many young woman of today that they still value a secure relationship and the prospect of babies ahead of well ... the alternatives ... one of which is still ... being left on the shelf.

You should hear the laughter among younger and older women when the words spinster and Gillard are spoken together.

Now there's something to get the gossips going.

I am surprised your not advocating some kind of Censure for the Interviewer . Make it illegal to have sexual relations ? Or withdraw her Journalists Certificate at least .

It was her , "a woman" who created this Loaded Dog , I bet there is plenty of Graffiti in the "Ladies" with Hat Pins driven into her midst .


I am a product of an Orange and a Green ; I turned into an Atheist as a Kid when my Gran killed my ambitions to become a Police Officer where She described the Hierarchy of the Police as "An Army run by the Tyke's" ; further Gran advised that while they may engage a mongrel like me any chance of a promotion ...well forget it ! All just described leads to this , I like Tony Abbott not because he is a Catholic but because he will answer a question , lucidely too using English as well ; I also liked his answer to "The Question" that means I liked his lucidity it was what I expected and I respect him for that , my answer would have been different but thats OK by me .
A stark contrast to Rudd who would have lathered on for ten mins and said nothing the general population could have understood and you while a talented wordsmith with only about seven words to begin with managed two pages of bile would have been hard pressed to find any in Ruddspeak

Yes
I havent forgotten his risible comments that "a bad boss is a little bit like a bad father or a bad husband - notwithstanding all of his faults, you find he tends to do more good than harm. He might be a bad boss but at least he's employing someone while he is in fact a boss."

He has a long long history of authoritarian, patriarchal, bigoted, sexist and misogynistic views and statements and is not to be trusted in his new guise of mr straight talking good old boy from the suburbs.
His recent statements on virginity being 'the greatest gift" (despite his personal hypocrisy) show he has not really changed. He is still a right wing christian zealot who would, if elected as PM, repress women, poor people and the sick and disadvantaged just the same as he did as a part of howards government.

Regardless of whether he is a politician or not, Tony Abbott should be commended for giving a perfectly frank and responsible answer to the Womens Weekly question. On the other hand, the rambling of the writer and her supporters, suggests that they would have avoided taking responsibility for appropriately educating their children on moral matters, or else avoided answering the question altogether.

It is a sign of this author’s intellectual bankruptcy that she chooses to attack someone’s behaviour rather than their opinions. Tony Abbott was expressing his opinion and if we disagree with it then we should say so and give good counter arguments. What he does or has done is totally irrelevant unless it somehow impinges on our peace or justice. Forgiveness is not ours to give because we have not been wronged by his behaviour.

Perhaps the author is a bit obsessed with forgiveness in some other area or she has a deep seated resentment about something which she cannot let go of. To launch such an attack on someone who has done nothing wrong except fail to live up to his own misguided standards is probably a case of projection of guilt.

Tony is acting like a liberal polly; Do as i say not what i have done.
Sounds pretty normal coming from Tony. The worst thing he has done is bringing his daughters into the spotlight. In future if one of the girls makes a mistake the media will have a feild day.
Abbott & bbarnaby show. They could make a quid from channel 9 i reckon.

Good point Desmond - and this whole hullaballoo reminds me of Sarah Palin's family, career and values issues a while back.

Anyway, the story held a link to a blog of commentary. Laughed when I read this and thought it was worth sharing:

vibenna // Tuesday 26 January 2010 at 9:58 am | Reply

Rachel: “I’m confused as to why only women should stay virgins until they get married. What about the mens? Why are they still allowed to have sex?”

Presumably he is promoting homosexual sex for men before marriage ?

http://inastrangeland.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/more-stripes/

DEsmond writes

'Tony is acting like a liberal polly; Do as i say not what i have done.'

Very much like Ms Wong and Mr Rudd flying off to CopenHagen and around the rest of the world and yet still holding to the Greens religion of gw.

We are unique,

Your contention that any but a handful of young females are behaving like barnyard animals because of spiked drinks is utter nonsense. Most of them actually like behaving like barnyard animals. Those few who do get caught through drink spiking (that’s often the story they tell mum when they get found out) should take a bit of responsibility for themselves and stay away from that sort of hazard.

Your 14 and 15 year olds certainly shouldn’t be going to places where their virtue is likely to be at risk.

Your discourse about the “majority of teenagers” you know sounds like a fairy story that suits your particular – might I say ‘unique’ – view of the situation. Or, it is something you read in a cheap woman’s’ magazine. There are no reasons for “sleeping around” bar the obvious: that youngsters these days want to do it.

You can call me “outdated”, “ignorant” and “narrow minded” as you shouted at me in block letters. If you think that my views are worse than those whose barnyard capers lead to “eating disorders”, and “suicide”, jolly good luck to you.

I don’t care what Tony Abbott did in has past: but he has a right to his opinion; the barnyard activities of loose young females and males have no interest for me apart from the fact that most of the current crop of young people, and their parents, do not have any real values at all. Sexual promiscuity is just one of the results of the loss of values in at least two generations.

The bottom line is that is apologists for lack of values like you, and the young ones without a shred of self-respect, are going to have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

Well Leigh, you have hit the nail right on the head, Abbott is entitled to his opinion, no matter which way the wind is blowing. So was Adolf Hitler, Idi Amin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussain etc, and from the tone of your half-baked comment, I suspect you might once have fawned upon them too.
He was saying that women should treasure their virginity, but he did not mention men. We can only conclude then that it's OK for us to chase a bit of skirt just like he did before he got married.
Reading your respose demonstrated to me why women believe we should have no part in discussions on these matters.

SS,

Time to invoke Godwin's Law.

BYW, Abbott lives in an all-female household with three daughters, so you would hardly expect him to be moralising about boys in response to a question directed at his personal life and personal affairs.

Your hysteria and that of others has set the advancement of women back decades. This is the modern equivalent of the witch-hunt and it does no-one, least of all the tabloid media hacks, any credit at all.

It is disconcerting how easy it is to manipulate the media to whip up the mob in Australia.

Runner, regarding Rudd and Wong,

Like them or not, like their positions or not, their time is about ten million times more valuable to the rest of us than yours on your best day. You would be the first to carp on if they took a slow boat to copenhagen and back.

Rusty

Sigh, I don't think there's anything left to be said- except that almost everyone correctly pointed out Abbots hypocrisy in his already rather abhorrent views (almost as abhorrent as his rather contradictorily decadent behaviour, which conveniently goes ignored as his empty posturing still leaves him as the closest thing to a conservative figurehead this country has), and a few idiots jumping to his defense assuming that everyone who dislikes Tony Abbot MUST therefore be some free-sex liberalist who is also in alliegance with the Labor party.
If only life were so simple.

Oh, and you few know who you are- and don't worry, I don't expect you to actually respond to this- as usual.

Bye all!

Leigh; you breath and live on another planet and missed my points altogether. You also have no idea as to how easy drugs are popped into a water or glass of alcohol.

Fyi: my 19yr old daughter possesses loads of self respect and has NEVER slept around [we have a very close mother/daughter relationship], secondly my 15 yr old son is a farmer who has never tasted alcohol to date.

The comments made regarding teenage girls in no way reflects upon my 19yr old and 15yr old. It pays [as I have stated] never to make assumptions on young people [in my original post]given that many girls are raped as a result of their FIRST taste of a little alcohol with a DRUG popped into it. What generation do you breathe and live in Leigh? You OBVIOUSLY reside in a little town and have nothing to do with "young people". I suggest you get in touch with "young people" and commence a voluntary role in a centre assisting teenagers. Then come back and contribute to some issues involving "young people" Leigh. Hear their stories, view their severe depression, mostly as a result of the original drug slyly popped into their drink during their first taste of alcohol.

This generation lives in far more deadly times than back in the 70's when one did not have to be worried about drugs popped into drinks [water included by the way]!! Happens in our city to women of all ages [not inebriated at the time either].

Do not generalise Leigh: deal in real life occurrences and facts. Get to know "young people" and their lives before making totally wrong declarations.

we are unique: Well it's very refreshing to see someone posting supportively about young people. I have raised three myself (M and F) and they were a delight throughout - very moral, decent young citizens; yet given the space to make age appropriate decisions during their growing years so that they have a pleasing degree of self assurance. All of them maintain loving, respectful relationships. Friends of my children have always impressed me too. I think that in the main they are all pretty beaut.

Like you, however, I have also met young people (though they are not my primary client group) who have not had such a fortunate upbringing, and condemnation out of hand in no way helps them. Most are doing the best they can with what they have in situations they don't have any power over - which often include difficult adults.

They have enough to deal with without adults assuming they are all loose and easy when in my experience that has rarely been the case and when it has; it has occurred in the course of a traumatic history including early child abuse; child sexual assault; drug use and so on.

Helen:
I personally think that we do need someone to try to bring our society back onto the straight and narrow, thus I consider Tony Abbott as good as anyone else to offer his well-intentioned advice.

Why should we attempt to shame him or accuse him of hypocracy, after all he is only human, .......show me a man (or a woman) who is free of any sort of guilt or sin and I will show you God!

Helen Dale sounds suspiciously like Helen Demidenko newly labelled once again.
If that is the case who has "forgiven" you for "The Hand that Signed the Paper" ?

we are unique,

I’m not sure what all that was about! I “live and breath on another planet”; “I have no idea as to how easy dugs are dropped into a water or glass of alcohol.”

Then, “What generation to you breathe and live in Leigh?”; “You OBVIOUSLY reside in a little town and have nothing to do with ‘young people”.

You are obviously a very angry person, possibly because you have always got things wrong.

I live on the same planet as you do. Your comment is completely stupid. I do know how easy it is to drug a drink, and I know that it’s up to kids to take some responsibility for their won welfare.

Your children seem to have managed to take responsibility for themselves. Why are you making excuses for other teenagers?

My generation? Going on the ages of your children, I’m your grandfather’s age. I do not “reside in a little town” (why would that be a problem anyway). I live in a capital city.

Nothing to do with young people? I have 2 adult grandchildren, and 4 great grand children, so don’t try to tell me how to suck eggs, girlie. And don’t presume to think you know anything about people you don’t know, just because they don’t agree with your crackpot ideas.

Saintly Sinner,

You conveniently overlook the fact that I did mention males in my post. Don’t let that get in the way of your chauvinism, though. Your mention of certain dictators is idiotic and shows that intelligence is not you forte. You and your dopey mate above are just as hypocritical as a Tony Abbott, with a lot more ignorance thrown in.

"This generation lives in far more deadly times than back in the 70's when one did not have to be worried about drugs popped into drinks [water included by the way]!! Happens in our city to women of all ages [not inebriated at the time either]."

There always has been drink-spiking. While many people wouldn't see it as drink spiking, the most commonly used drug for drink spiking is alcohol. The most common reason is as a prank.

In any case, I am very sceptical about this drink spiking furore. When I started drinking, it was just accepted that some nights you could knock them back like water and some nights a few drinks went straight to your head. Too many young people tend to explain nights when they couldn't hold large amounts of alcohol or otherwise embarass themselves as drink spiking. This tends to discourage personal responsibility, create un-necessary suspicion about innocent men and often wastes the time of police, nurses and doctors.

Don't you love these debates. Runner is consistent at least. I would love to see you one day actually debate a point without ignoring it by highlighting the faults as you see it of the 'other side'.

It is a bit like saying to little Johnny well yes you have just bashed up poor little Susie, but that's okay because last week Susie took Annie's snickers bar from her lunchbox.

What a world that would be. It would be anarchy. No rule or laws just do as you wish, take revenge whenever you feel like it.

Runner at least tell us why you think a women's virtue is more important than a mans. I am not being silly, I really want to know where this thinking comes from.

Personally I believe both men and women should lead by example, no parent wants to see their kids being promiscuous, but that is big jump to declaring that only women should save themselves for their husbands. Husbands who may well have been running around (after who I don't know if all women are saving themselves) before marriage.

I better comment first on the article.
I think it can be summed up as follows:
Abbott gives his daughters old-fashioned advice that he did not follow himself. How dare he be such a hypocrite?
As a father of young daughters I would give them very similar advice. As a young man I managed to refrain until marriage so I guess I'm allowed to speak on the subject. However, as has been pointed out - sometimes the strongest and most effective voices come from those who have had to go through the travails of the behaviour they decry.
Since it has come up I will briefly stray off-topic onto drink-spiking (one of my bug-bears). Drink spiking certainly exists, but is FAR more rare than most people believe and, as Benk points out, the most common spike is alcohol (something many don't think of as a spike).
A study in Perth last year found of 100 cases admitted to hospital for self-reported drink-spiking NONE had any 'spike' detected. See link
http://www.news.com.au/drink-spiking-all-in-your-head-study/story-0-1225735783315
Invariably it turned out the only things in their systems were an excess of alcohol and sometimes recreational drugs they confessed to taking. The all-too-frequent cry of 'my drink must have been spiked' tends to diminsh personal responsibility and the legitimate victims.