Danielle,
Like i said the barriers have never been geographic except in so far as they have prevented information about Islam from being conveyed accurately.

You speak about what "we hear". Here is an example of what we do NOT hear: http://palsolidarity.org/2010/02/11164

This takes us back to the topic. David Singer likes to invoke international law to support his case. He sees the Jews as being the conquerors of the West Bank. Yet as this one, of many, reports of daily life for the non-Jewish human beings of the West Bank makes clear, David's friends are engaged in ethnic cleansing.

Australians value compassion and a fair go. David Singer is a long way from exhibiting Australian values. Acquiescence to,if not support for, his agenda relies on a media that is largely complicit in ensuring that the true character of this agenda remains hidden from the general public.
salaams

Danielle,
You state: "Gazans don't even come close to being "Palestinians". They speak an Egyptian Arabic, distinct from that of the West Bank; also have familial and econonic ties to Egypt."

A little lesson in history (courtesy of Wikipaedia)

QUOTE

Sderot was founded in 1951 next to the Gevim-Dorot transit camp, on the land of the former Palestinian village of Najd.[8]The first settlers of Sderot were Kurdish and Persian immigrants who lived in tents and shacks before permanent housing was completed in 1954. .....UNQUOTE

What happened to the Palestinians?

QUOTE
Najd was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (9 mi) northeast of Gaza City. During the British Mandate in Palestine, children from Najd attended school in the nearby village of Simsim. On 13 May, 1948, Najd was occupied by Jewish soldiers from the Negev Brigade as part of Operation Barak.[5] The inhabitants were expelled and fled to Gaza, and the village was then completely destroyed and leveled to the ground. In 1951, the town of Sderot was built over the village lands.
UNQUOTE

This is called ethnic cleansing.

# Danielle
Your solution of joint Israeli/Jordanian citizenship for West Bank Jewish residents is an option although I do not think it would be acceptable.

What I believe should happen is that Israel and Jordan sit down and redraw the current international boundary between their respective states by dividing sovereignty in the West Bank between them.

Israel has already indicated that it is prepared to cede at least 90% of the West Bank (where 95% 0f the Arab population currently reside)so the redrawing of the boundary should be a relatively simple task to achieve.

Arab residents of the West Bank will become Jordanian citizens and Jewish residents will remain Israeli citizens.

Where Jews or Arabs are on the wrong side of the new border they will become citizens of that state or be compensated to move to the other side of the new border.

I agree there is only one solution which will have to involve Jordan's return to the West Bank.

# grateful

1. The article you refer to does not involve territory in the West Bank

2. The dispute is a long running dispute which has been before the Courts and resolved in favour of the Jewish claimants as owners of the property

3. Would you call the massacre of 67 Jews in Hebron and the expulsion of the Jewish community from Hebron in 1929 "ethnic cleansing"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre

4. Would you call the expulsion of all Jews from the West Bank and East Jerusalem after Jordan's conquest of these areas in 1948 "ethnic cleansing"

Just think - if Jordan returned to the West Bank everything could virtually change overnight.

Shooting the messenger and ignoring the message is always the favoured tactic adopted by those who lack the ability to engage in a rational discussion of what is being proposed and choose to do so behind an anonymous name.

If that's your idea of a fair go - its not mine.

grateful,

I lived in an Islamic country for many years ...

Re: Islamic barbarity in the Middle East, the need for reform: Read: Ibn Warraq, Haras Rafiq, Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd, Wafa Sultan, Muhammad Iqbal, Jamal ad-Din al-Afghani, Sayyid Ahmed Khan, Nasr Hamid Abu Zayd, Ali Abd ar-Raziq, Fatima Mernissi ...

If you are Islamic, do you recognise Sufis, Shia, Kurds and Sunni as fully legitimate Muslims? Do you believe that Muslims who disagree with you are apostates?

Explain takfir, and taqiyya ...

I witnessed an Imam using WWII footage. The most cynical and calculated lie to promote Islam and denegrate Jews - taqiyya- came when he showed the US military entering the Nazi death camps. Pointing to the Jewish inmates, he stated they were Germans, placed in these terrible camps by Jews.

Explain the Palestinian civil war, the ongoing genocide against Christian Assyrians by Muslim Arabs and Kurds; the explusion of the 900,000 Jewish population who lived in Arab States; the condition of Palestinians within Arab States.

The savagery of the Iranian Islamic Penal Code - little girls of 9 yrs, and boys of 15 years tried as adults, and as adults, executed.
http://www.fidh.org/IMG/pdf/ir_un2005a.pdf

Israel's ethnic cleansing of Palestinians?! Non-Jews comprise 26% of Israel's population - over 20% of Israel's total population are Islamic Arabs (formerly Palestinians). Israeli citizens, with all the rights other Israelis have - places in the Knesset, ambassadorial positions abroad, community and business leaders, university students and lecturers.

Palestinians enter Israel daily for work being assured of equitable wages with all Israelis, also being entitled to Israeli medical cover, and other benefits.

Doesn't the Jewish community notice; or perhaps it is due to Israel's Declaration of the Establishment of the State of Israel, May 14, 1948, which affirms:

"The State of Israel...will ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its inhabitants irrespective of religion, race or sex; it will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, language, education and culture; it will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and it will be faithful to the principles of the Charter of the United Nations."

Danielle and David,
Can we start by not demarcating people in terms of their "ethnicities". It is far too reminscent of South African apartheid. Instead let's speak of human beings and whether they have been subject to injustice or have committed an injustice.

“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. “ (From the Prophet’s Last Sermon)

I fully acknowledge Jews of Hebron suffered injustice. I also fully acknowledge anti-Semitism must be the vilest form of hatred invented by human beings:

“O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety: and fear Allah. For Allah is acquainted with all that ye do.” (Qur’aan, 5:8)

But let’s acknowledge that peace will never come without justice and this requires making judgements about people according to whether their behaviour is just or unjust and NOT in terms of their ethnicity or any other bonds such as friendship or family:

“O ye who believe! Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to Allah, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well acquainted with all that ye do.” Qur’an (4:135)

This is where I’m coming from. What about yourselves?

David you insist on evidence of ongoing attempts displace human being based on their ethnicity on the West Bank. An example follows in the form of events that happened no more than 3 weeks ago.

cont..

QUOTE
Israeli forces demolish 17 buildings in northern West Bank
10 January 2010

http://palsolidarity.org/2010/01/10558

Israeli military forces have demolished 17 buildings in the Palestinian community of Khirbet Tana for the second time. This is the only the most recent chapter in a long struggle for the small agricultural community to keep their lands.

The Israeli army arrived this morning to the village in a convoy of jeeps and bulldozers and razed 17 buildings to the ground. The demolished structures included family homes, children’s classrooms and shelters for the village’s livestock. Several olive trees were also razed to the ground. In a statement issued by the Israeli military, the buildings were had demolished due to the fact they were “illegally constructed structures” built on a military training ground, “endangering the lives of those present”.

Khirbet Tana centered around two natural springs, lying 7km east of Beit Furik in the Nablus area of the West Bank. It is currently home to approximately 35 families, some of whom reside there permanently, and some who stay only during the spring and winter seasons due to the regions’ remoteness and harsh climates. Residents say that references to the villages existence date back to over 3500 years ago.
This is not the first time that this has happened. In 2005 Israeli forces demolished almost the entire village, leaving only the mosque, built over 150 years previously. Despite the majority of the dwellings having been built several hundred years ago, the military claimed they had been built without permission and thus had the right to demolish. The entire area was categorised as Area C – under full Israeli military and civilian control – in the Oslo Accords of 1994.

Residents also suffer from the ongoing threat from settlers from the nearby settlement of Mekhora, built on the lands of Khirbet Tana and Beit Furik. The settlers are ultimately those who benefit from the destruction of Khirbet Tana, as their agricultural projects continue to expand on to village land. On at least one occasion settlers have been sighted swimming in Khirbet Tana’s source of drinking water, …..

UNQUOTE