CJ writes with his usual humility

'On reflection, I think it's probably a good thing that the denialist camp has spokesmen of Viscount Monckton's calibre as its public face. He's even more effective than Plimer :)'

People who are not blinded by the Greens religion don't need Monckton or Plimer. They simply need to listen to the predictions and see the outcomes. They need only to observe. Many 'leading scientist' would of been stoned to death long ago if they lived in a different era. In the UK BOM has got it so horribly wrong due to pressures from having to prove warming. Listening to politicians like Mr Rudd, Ms Wong and Mr Obama cherry pick weather is also a give away. At least Mr Bob Brown believes his own fantasy.

The deceit uncovered at the highest levels of the gw scam was not necessary to convince anyone with any sense of the fantasy. All it did was change the fantasy to fraud as many expected.

chris lewis, you might have a general point, that reason will win out, though there's problems there.

but here, i don't see that c.j. morgan is worried at all. the point of the crikey article is that monckton is demonstrably a conspiracy-hunting fruitcake, and with no credentials to talk science at all. i'm concerned that murdoch hacks will take monckton seriously, and encourage others to do so as well. but i think c.j. is probably correct, that monckton will be laughed out of the country.

as for whining about people (including myself) flaming monckton, i think graham young has jumped the shark. this was a silly and nasty article from a silly and nasty man. it was inflammatory: who on earth posts such an article and doesn't expect a flame war in response?

There will be increasing personal attacks on C Monckton because of his effectiveness in presenting the alternate view.The true believers in AGW caused by CO2 are too wedded to their cause now to change course,even if presented with the facts.Losing face and Govt finance will take prescedence over all else.

Instead of attacking the man,critics here should just simply go to http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/ and disprove the science and facts.

There is no doubt we have been lied to about the hockey stick,falling temps even with a 26% increase in co2 in just 10yrs.Trying to hide the Medieval Warm period, doctoring data,not acknowdging that the ice core data reveals that CO2 concentrations in the past follow temp increases by 800 yrs.They are a result rather than a cause.We even have evidence of them moving temp recording units near aircon units,lower to ashphalt to get higher temps etc.

No one here can site can find on the WEB a single simple CO2 experiment that I've described earlier,with a control and imputs of CO2 equal to man's 87ppm.

The true believers have lot of flaws in their theory and unless they address those,instead of ad hominen on the messengers,they will come under increasing suspicion and disbelief.

To those concerned about AGW being a cover to set up a world government, what about the World Trade Organisation? And Howard’s “Free Trade” agreement with the US? They have been overriding the sovereign rights of nations for some time now. The WTO’s deliberations are conducted in secret, and they have a great deal of power. Do any of you have concerns about that too?

Arjay, just two of your points:
There is no problem and no secret about the temperature not always rising, it happened twice since 1980, for reasons understood, then the warming roared back. See
http://betternature.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/global-cooling-since-1998/
Neither is the CO2 lagging in the ice age a problem. The mistake is to imagine that CO2 must always be the dominant cause, but in the ice ages it was an amplifier. The trigger was variations in solar heating. See
http://betternature.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/co2-lag-during-ice-ages/
The other points could be addressed with more space. It’s too bad these spurious points keep being recycled over and over.

Col Rouge,
My point is that I was called out for ‘flaming’, by the moderator and by you, I acknowledged it and apologised, then you just kept on flaming me and anyone you disagree with. And you keep it up in your last response (“those who cannot teach”; as a matter of fact I mostly do). Recycling other people’s insults is still insulting. So apparently it’s OK for you and your side to flame, but not OK for me and my side to flame. If you don’t like it, stop doing it.

If asking you to stop flaming is asking you to be silent (which I’m not doing), then apparently you don’t have anything worthwhile to contribute.

Bigmal,
You asked for substantiation and I offered some. Apparently you only glanced at the first thing before raging back still claiming ‘unsubstantiated allegations’, apparently because you don’t happen to like the first source mentioned. I indicated how to find plenty of evidence using Google, and I offered my own blog with plenty of sources quoted. If you’re not willing to look then you certainly won’t see the evidence.

CJ Morgan et al

I watched the U Tube and Lord Monkton's response to a group of American
Greens interrupting a live web coverage of a meeting held at the UN Climate Change Summit in which he was to be one of the presenters. No wonder he referred to them as 'Hitler Youth' They behaved like them
in times gone past. Screaming down the speakers, parading banners
hitting one speaker with a small American flag, and generally behaving
like a mob. Then another U Tube coverage of them taking off their clothes in public... as a protest for clean energy demands. Talk about negative attention seekers?

CJ - Hamilton's article was libelous. What he quoted was totally incorrect... Lord Monkton does suffer from Graves disease he's never
said he found a cure for it. He was outspoken in the early days
of the AIDS epidemic saying HIV sufferers should be kept together
to avoid contaminating the rest of society. Well he'd reneged on that
as at the time there wasn't the numbers of sufferers as there are today. I don't know about the Nobel prize bit? I find it hard to
believe he thought he won the Falklands war? He was only born in 1952
but he is a world acknowledged journalist. But a typical aristocrat
that isn't his fault, he was born into an old title.

The Green and Gore youth deserved everything they got from him, in my opinion... and these Fascist type behaviour (as they demonstrated) proves they are on a shaky foundation for their beliefs. So ridicule, debase and character assassinate anyone who doesn't agree with them.
If they were to behave like that in Australia, I reckon they will be all arrested

Geoff Davies.The WTO is an arm of the Globalists.They have subjugated 3rd world countries through debt,but now their holy grail is the middle class of the West.This is the last bastion of resistence.If you read any of Webster Griffin Tarpleys exposes,the intent of the WTO was to destroy production in the West and that they have achieved with the backing of the Green movement.

So CO2 lagging by 800 yrs is not a problem.How does Co2 act as an amplifier? A catalyst in a chemical reaction in which electrons are exchanged can be considered to be an amplifier,since it accelerates the reaction.CO2 in the atmosphere has no such chemical reaction.Would care to explain? How does CO2 excite all the other atmospheric molecules to retain heat energy?

My challenge to you and your supporters is to do a very simple experiment.Have several controlled environments,ie one with pre- industrial co2 of 300 ppm and then the others with various added levels above 300ppm,with temps and all other environmental considerations of temps etc, being constant.We could do this on international TV.We could replicate the real world by having proportions of salt water/land,reflecting reality.

This will put an end to all the conjecture.Take up the challenge!