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The Forum > Article Comments > Rudd offers insults instead of evidence > Comments

Rudd offers insults instead of evidence : Comments

By Joanne Nova, published 20/11/2009

Anyone who questions the theory that carbon causes catastrophic warming is called 'dangerous'. This is supposed to pass for reasoned debate?

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R0bert, a number of our best and most senior climate scientists and scientists in related fields got eased out of CSIRO by the Howard regime. Howard very actively silenced critics, and not just in climate science.

Regarding the David Bellamy article you linked to, he repeats the claim that the world has cooled since 1998. This is a quite elementary error of interpretation, or of selective misrepresentation of data. See
http://betternature.wordpress.com/2009/10/15/global-cooling-since-1998/
I've added a bit there about Senator Fielding, who makes the same claim. It shows that if you look at the full data set, not just the last few years, the upward trend is clear.
Posted by Geoff Davies, Wednesday, 25 November 2009 9:29:18 PM
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Angry, John Reid states the following

Water vapour positive feedback is only an assumption; but, importantly for the modellers, it is an assumption which makes the models work. There is little experimental evidence that it is true, and radiometer data collected by NASA scientist Roy Spencer and others indicate that it is not true.

AT the NASA website SAGE 3 (the same NASA), which I mentioned earlier they state

Atmospheric water vapor plays an important part in the Earth’s energy balance, in many chemical cycles and in tracing the exchange of air between the upper and lower atmosphere. Water vapor is the most abundant, naturally occurring greenhouse gas and traps outgoing energy in the atmosphere that is radiated from the Earth. Precise measurements of water vapor by SAGE III will provide important contributions to understanding how this process warms the Earth’s atmosphere. Evidence also indicates that water vapor in the upper atmosphere is increasing. This increase is not well understood, but it could affect climate, alter circulation patterns and allow ozone loss in the Arctic to occur more easily. Measurements by SAGE III will provide a crucial new understanding of how water vapor is circulated in the atmosphere and how it is increasing with time.

It seems reasonable to me that along with water vapour, CO2, methane, aerosols, volcanic eruptions and ozone all play a part in climate change.
Posted by WILLIE, Wednesday, 25 November 2009 10:35:40 PM
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Gosh, Geoff, you'd better tell Tim "The Weather Makers" Flannery that he 's wrong about the cooling trend he talked about just yesterday ...

... oh, I forgot, he's not a climate scientist, is he? I guess he'd better just shut his trap like the rest of us ignoramuses, while Phil Jones & Mike Mann put their headers together and decide what to tell us to think.
Posted by Clownfish, Wednesday, 25 November 2009 10:47:30 PM
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Geoff Davies, This is Tim Flannery on ABC on Monday evening

"When we come to the last few years when we haven’t seen a continuation of that (warming) trend we don’t understand all of the factors that create earth’s climate...We just don’t understand the way the whole system works… See, these people work with models, computer modeling. So when the computer modeling and the real world data disagree you’ve got a very interesting problem… Sure for the last 10 years we’ve gone through a slight cooling trend."

Isn't that interesting?

So who should we believe?

You see why folks are skeptical, you all don't have a consistent story - this is one of the people our government listens to.

Do they call on you as well? What do you tell them?

(Yes yes we all know that for you and your kind, it's PM John Howard's fault, we all recognize your pain, sheesh get over it already. We (the skeptical ones) now know it's dodgy science for funding that's to blame, but do maintain the rage and all that)
Posted by rpg, Thursday, 26 November 2009 5:50:31 AM
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Yes RPG, and let us not forget that without evidence of substance Australia even participated in attacking another nation.
Posted by JF Aus, Thursday, 26 November 2009 8:28:08 AM
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Joanne, almost everything you say about climate and climate science is wrong. "Denier" is actually very mild for people who are prepared to sacrifice the prosperity and security of our kids and grandkids for the sake of their mistaken ideology and delusions of conspiracy.
As for the ETS, it's a dud, but not for taking the actual scientific advice - the advice from people and organisations that actually study climate - seriously but for failing to take it seriously. The "concessions" are almost certainly the kind of weakening of already pathetically weak climate policy the ALP actually want; blaming the Liberals and Nationals is just political maneuvering to try and stem the flow of votes from people who do take the warnings from mainstream science seriously way from the ALP to the Greens
Posted by Ken Fabos, Thursday, 26 November 2009 8:40:57 AM
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