i have never ever suggested that anyone is not entitled to express an opinion. Leigh spits the usual disgusting jingoist right ring bile, and then the usual flag wavers start singing the first verse, always, conveniently forgetting the second "For those who've come across the seas We've boundless plains to share...." .

well done andrew, and what CJ said.

Andrew Bartlett - thanks for taking the time to reply here. Your calm responses and the citations in them are a breath of fresh air to what normally passes for debate on OLO.

I can only agree with CJ Morgan when he said: "It's a damned shame that Andrew Bartlett is no longer in the Senate".

2nd Nov 2009

Andrew, you fail to comprehend that I firmly believe your senate inquiry was a cynical and flawed political stunt. Despite your kangaroo court Admiral Chris Barrie maintained until well after the Christmas that the children were thrown overboard, and stated, “I am the Navy!” I repeat my original assertion that you play with words! You know from the evidence presented that the SUNCs tried to throw their children overboard but were prevented by sailors of the Boarding Party.

As for Cornelia Rau, you accuse me of adopting a fallback position. No, you are playing with words again you naughty boy! And she was investigated.

The Qld. Govt. and the German Govt. investigated Cornelia Rau, but it is fair to say that the investigation failed to identify her as an Australian resident. The facts are as follows: a woman failed to give her true identity to the police. She spoke fluent German and spoke English with a German accent. She claimed to be a German citizen (and was in fact a German citizen) but offered up four false identities and a false passport. She wanted to be sent home to Germany. The German Govt would not accept her, as they had no record of her false identities, so she stayed in detention in a Qld State institution under a Beattie Labor Govt. She was sent to a Qld. State health facility for psychological assessment, and investigated but found not to be psychotic. Andrew have I presented the facts of the investigation fairly or not? You must accept that she was investigated! Her family failed to notify the NSW police that she was missing for five months, and then the NSW police (another Labor State Govt.) failed to promulgate her status to other Australian police forces.

Out of all this lying and bungling you left-wing politicians attacked Sen. Amanda Vanstone for failing as the Immigration Minister. That shows the sort of stupidity and gall that only a left-wing politician would dare to display.

Geoffrey Kelley

geoffreykelley writes
'Out of all this lying and bungling you left-wing politicians attacked Sen. Amanda Vanstone for failing as the Immigration Minister. That shows the sort of stupidity and gall that only a left-wing politician would dare to display.'

and to make it worse they truely believe that they are the compassionate ones. They could not get away with it if we had a press willing to report facts rather than their dogmas. No wonder the Democrats were such great backers of the national broadcasters.

Andrew,
Re…“You're like ghosts of slain warriors on some ancient battle-field, doomed to keep fighting the war you lost long ago….”
I’d liken us rather to the ghost of Hamlet’s father, who came back to seek redress for the poison that was poured into his ears.

Re…“Horus, I’m not sure what your point is in mentioning … sewed their lips together etc…I’ve been to camps on Nauru, Christmas etc”
Yeah, you certainly made the most of your politicians travel allowance, I’ll give you that— though, perhaps greater utility (& less CO2) might have been achieved by donating the travel costs to the aslylum seekers upkeep?

There are two reasons for mentioning the sown lips etc.
i)If such behaviour is a genuinely symptomatic of trauma –one would think surely that we would find hundreds, perhaps thousands, of such lip-sown-shut-persons in African camps , since by all accounts conditions there are many times worse than anywhere in OZ--Yet we don’t. What we see is the sown-lips-capper is reserved for times when there is fawning media & advocates hanging about. Which using the principles I learnt in psychology 101, & beyond, leads me to think it has less to do with them being “brutalise” and more to do with them seeking to manipulate –and manipulating some of our namby-pamby representatives is very easy indeed.

ii) There’s a peculiar human foible that views a charge as more credible , if it can be shown the chargee has a track record of similar behaviour in the past.For example, if someone has threatened to jump from rooves or flag poles , its not too much of a leap to envisage they might jump overboard and take their children with them—if it could serve their ends. (bleeding hearts like yourself never like to apply that standard to your protected -- though you, funnily enough, are all too eager to apply it to everyone else! ).

Re …”Alleging the children overboard issue was orchestrated by ‘the pro-refugee lobby’ is absurd”
The refugee advocates milked it for all it was worth—and more than it was worth--you included.

the Left will never wake to what it's like to be capable of doing the Right thing.