I agree with Geoffrey Kelley.

Though I think Geoffrey should refrain from any reference to Andrew’s personal life/family.
It’s not OLO etiquette, and it will draw sympathy where it may be undeserved .

The children overboard kafuffle was a well planned & well executed grab for sympathy by the pro-refugee lobby.
It has been established that some of the illegals :
-- sew their lips together.
--climb to the roof of compounds and threaten to jump off.
--sabotage ships on the high seas
--burn their papers
--intimidate civilian (rescue) crew into redirecting ships towards Australia
--while in detention payoff old ethnic and religious debts –something they’re supposedly running from.
But to suggest that some might have thrown their children overboard is hurtful and besmirches their reputations(!)
[ Al Capone was probably quite offended too when they called him a tax cheat]
Spare me the faux indignation pleeeeease! .

Unfortunately our border personnel are all too often constrained in what they can say or do.
And any commissions of investigation need to have all the I’s dotted and all the T’s crossed before they can make a call.
Whereas the refugees and their advocates can propagate any old half truth or full blown lie ---and do, with great energy & skill.

It seems revealing of their "dog whistle orders" *Andrew* when so far this thread is saturated with Blues attempting to derail and repress your views from getting up for consideration.

But then after seeing another weak performance by TurnBull on Meet the Press this morning it is perhaps not surprising that the "foot soldiers" are a little more "frothing at the mouth" than usual.

Plus of course pm Wudd has poached another Elder in the form of Costello and plugged him back into the pulse, and thus his insights for the party room will be limited.

HaHaHa

Oh! And Barnaby is in revolt, and other back benchers are still threatening to cross the floor.

ROFL

Fitting justice for those who sold their Souls to the abusive of children policies of the howard era. "Evil" for want of a better term has a way of undoing itself in the long term.

A few more years in the wilderness yet I suspect is the appropriate prescription for the tattered remnants of the liberal party.

..

Still, I think "we" need to scrub up the liberal's for Forests a bit. A shame to waste the entire talent pool.

;-)

Andrew, the only evidence I am interested in is the evidence given by the crew of the HMAS Adelaide. I don’t have a problem with basic comprehension. I can read a RAN signal. Eyewitness evidence is good enough for me. I am not trying to spread hate, only facts.

You said, “As I said, the fact that Cornelia Rau was a German citizen is irrelevant - unless you think all Germans in Australia should be locked up.” No, I don’t think all Germans in Australia should be locked up. That is a pathetic accusation. I do think that any foreign national who cannot prove their identity and offers two false identities and cannot satisfy the German Govt. of their identity warrants investigation. The Palmer report adequately describes the confusing process and suggests some protocols that might improve the system.

Cornelia Rau was subjected to six days of psychiatric assessment by the Qld state govt. and found not to be psychotic. You and your ALP mates somehow used her to attack the Federal Minister of Immigration over her departments handling of the case. That is what I find contemptible in your argument. Her own family failed to report her as a missing person for five months.

As for the “children overboard”, the boat sank because it was sabotaged and scuttled, not because it was unseaworthy. Reith did not perpetuate a lie. That is a filthy assertion made by his political enemies. Please read the signals, especially the part describing SUNCS attempting to throw children overboard but prevented by the boarding party.

Geoffrey Kelley

I agree with geoffrey,
I have just read much of the report into the children overboard investigation. I think in summary it found technically and legally there was NO EVIDENCE to support that Children were THROWN overboard. But that is about all they found. Anyone that just plainly accepts this as being the whole truth is being gravely mislead. I could equate it to someone being accused of shooting someone in the left leg and being found not guilty because the real truth was that he shot him in the right leg.
Reading the report you will find that many on the SIEV did throw themselves overboard to hinder the efforts of the Australian navy. They had to be rescued by brave navy crew. Some navy crew describe seeing one person holding a child and threatening to throw them overboard. The boat and its engine was sabotaged in an attempt to make the navy take them on board. Much of this was happening in the dark with few navy personnel trying to control around 200 angry people. One person describes one of the people who was overboard in the water as around 15 years of age. So it seems at the end of the day that these people were doing their utmost to destroy the ship and throw themselves overboard in the dark to disrupt the efforts of the navy, yet because in all this chaos the navy crew could not ABSOLUTELY PROVE that a CHILD had definitely been THROWN overboard then the initial statement was found to be not supported. So the way I see it is that although the statement could not be proved ( in the middle of the ocean at night in chaos with 200 people) it certainly would seem highly likely and would be in line with the actions of the people at the time.

Andrew,

I read your article. Focusing on criticising past liberal government and current liberal opposition shows it accepts Rudd's solution.

Your bias/support show when you say:

'...(I think badly named) "Indonesia Solution"'

'The Liberals' divisions are obvious,' then ' they (Labor)just have the good sense and discipline to stay mostly quiet about them.'

'The position - contentious but arguable - that the Howard era policies stopped the boats ...' then '...the other widely recognised (and totally undeniable) consequences of those policies, which were kids behind razor wire, the children overboard fiction, Cornelia Rau, etc.'

'...ironic it may seem that the Liberals are expressing such concern for the welfare of people seeking refuge'

and tellingly,

'there are key differences between the Pacific Solution and the so-called "Indonesia Solution".'

Overall your article isn't balanced with criticism directed at Rudd's opportunistic use of the Indonesians. Nor of the disgraceful way they've treated refugees. Though you do sort of refer and criticise those aspects in passing with little reference to Kevvy.

This is laughable:

'... to convince countries such as Indonesia and others in our region that a cooperative approach based on a humane and rational attitude to asylum seekers in the region is in all our interests'

Care to relate the current position and detail past actions of India, Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, and Singapore.

Do research. You'll see your suggestion, mirrors Rudd's grandiose pronouncements. In the Australian vernacular, it's akin to urinating into the wind.

I don't need to shreik ... I think things through, answer questions, state my positions and offer solutions. I'm supportive of no particuler political cant or line.

I knew Indonesia was only part of John Howards Pacific Solution. It's currently Kevvy's only solution. You miss that point with the excusing of Kevvy and blaming the liberals.

I understand, unlike you as shown through your unthinking verbosity, the Government of the day warrants greater scruitiny than policies of previous governments and current oppositions.

It's no bloody wonder you are no longer a politician

A group on Christmas Island are protesting now because they actually wanted to go to New Zealand. Maybe a good idea.

Seems the only country left on earth that is nice. All other nations on earth are hell according to those that live in comfort, nowhere good enough for anybody as they would not stand it for a day so stands to reason no-one else should. Planet Earth just one big human rights abuse. No reason to worry about climate change, we all deserve to die.

I do wonder how long they stay nice for but lets give it a go.

New Zealand Solution.