Yabby - it is not a cop out, nor is it a chook raffle. It is a rational and pragmatic approach. It is also consistent. People are selected on the basis of meeting a criteria, and they are assessed more closely on health, security and character grounds than anyone else who enters here.

Those that do not meet the criteria are not permitted to stay - including some of the Singhalese who arrived earlier this year who Horus falsely suggests were accepted as refugees.

Contrary to ignorant shots about the Refugee Convention being "mamby pamby", it is quite tightly defined. This is a serious and difficult issue, which is why the debate needs to be accurate - and why Mr Ruddock's misleading commentary is unhelpful.

My point is that it does Australia no harm to receive a few thousand people such as this each year. That comment was made in conjunction with my other views that we should seek to establish a regional solution which would, over time, help control refugee flows through our region. Such an arrangement would require us to take a few thousand every year in any case. We have already started to take a few thousand a year from the south-east Asian region (mostly various ethnicities of Burmese origin).

This was done very successfully by the Fraser government in the era of the Vietnamese boat people. That does not mean every refugee was safely settled - we will never achieve an end to refugee flows until we achieve world peace - but far more were setlled far more qucikly with much less suffering.

As for the Tamils, the widespread oppression of many Tamils by the Sri Lankan government since the formal end of their civil war is very well documented. There is already a thriving Tamil community here who have shown themselves well able to adapt to Australia. But Australia should do more to pressure the Sri Lankan government to end the mass internment of Tamils - this one thing would do more than anything else to halt boat arrivals from that country.

Amen Andrew.

Horus “If I can just pick you up on a small point. The boaties are not all Tamils. There are, or have been, among them Singhalese”

I will defer to your better knowledge Horus….

Either way… these people are attempting an economic migration which does not qualify for “Refugee” status

Alternatively, regardless what Andrew Bartlett thinks:

If they think they are genuine “refugees”, fleeing persecution, they should apply as such and let their cases be “tested” along with all the other “refugees”, rather than trying to jump the queue ahead of people in real need of “refugee” resettlement.

Quite so, Andrew Bartlett.

I see that we have the same old canards about asylum seekers being trotted out by the same old heartless bastards and outright haters, as if the repetition of lies somehow makes them true. There are some truly horrible people who post here.

Speaking of which, Yabby never responded to my request for evidence for his claim that asylum seekers were given free iPods at the Christmas Island detention centre. Such a man of principle.

Andrew you say..
"As for the Tamils, the widespread oppression of many Tamils by the Sri Lankan government since the formal end of their civil war is very well documented. There is already a thriving Tamil community here who have shown themselves well able to adapt to Australia. But Australia should do more to pressure the Sri Lankan government to end the mass internment of Tamils - this one thing would do more than anything else to halt boat arrivals from that country."

I agree if this is the case then the Sri Lankan government should be held to account and take responsiility for all her citizens. My issue is that I learned quite sometime ago not to believe official documentation. Always tinged with enthocentricity, not to do so is never taught in our mechanical universities. So I have decided never to make a judgement on other people, nations or people unless I have a personal insight, which is hard. I used to trust the politician to be able to fill in on my ignorance as I saw that as a reason for their being, but after Hanneef Affair and many others I have no respect for the official documentation anymore. I could not believe this persecution could happen in Australia and nobody pay for it.I felt quite sick, like where did Australia go? Though from what I know about you I have trust but perhaps not in the information given to you. So I remain not being in the position to play judge..which I guess just hands the power to the politician anyway.

*It is a rational and pragmatic approach. It is also consistent*

A rational and pragmatic approach? So we offer first prize to
anyone who can sail over the line by paying bribes, next minute
we are fighting them off with sticks. I find that neither
rational nor consistent nor fair. All we are doing is encouraging
more to risk their money, to have a go.

If we are going to take 13'000 refugees, or more if you like,
we need far better criteria to decide which of the millions
we will take, then our present policy.

There are surely many deserving refugees would love to start a
new life here, but simply don't have the money. But they
are in refugee camps, where we source most of them from. It
should be all of them. That would be consistent.

CJ, the information about the free ipods was on a news broadcast
one night, when one of the WA news crews were filming on
Christmas Island. No, I did not tape it, I simply remember
the story, which was broadcast a few months ago.