Dear suzie,
Some points of order...
God DID send plagues to Egypt, but before that Egypt had subjected the Jews to hundreds of years of slavery and oppression as well as killing THEIR firstborn males (Exodus 1). Had Pharoah heeded Moses’ warnings and not been so stubborn, Pharoah would have spared his people much suffering. Pharoah’s fault, not God’s.

God did not torment Job - satan (the adversary) did. As with all of the bad things that happen on earth, satan’s excellent PR department manages to attribute it all to God whilst he merrily avoids even being on the radar.

The deal is this: God (all-good) lives in Heaven. Satan (all-bad, ex-angel) became proud and decided he wanted to replace God. Mutiny in heaven. Satan and a third of all the angels get their butts kicked and thrown down to earth. God creates Man/Woman and gives them dominion over everything He has made. Satan tricks Adam/Eve and gets the kingdom for himself (with certain legal rights that even God cannot overturn). Jesus wins back many rights for Mankind and satan’s power is broken, but because so many people are unaware of the weakness of satan’s hold, he continues to reign almost unfettered.

Disease, hatred, war, violent weather, everything bad thing you can think of is an aberration of God’s original intent and design. When He created the world it was perfect. Adam didn’t even get bad breath! But satan (sin/rebellion/pride etc) has corrupted this original order.

So Grim, Fractelle et al, when you use such words as "Ruthless, vindictive, vengeful, jealous and cruel", "full blown psychopath" and "vexatious, two-faced and yet acts so illogically", direct your justified cursing to the REAL culprit, satan - not God.

Martins S,

Does an effective Creator create Satan with fore-knowledge? If so, it is problematic, so far as the skill or the morals of the Creator is concerned. If not, the Creator is not truly god.

Would you design a car knowing its brakes will fail after two years? What of the Christian God's design of Satan?

"Had Pharoah heeded Moses’ warnings and not been so stubborn, Pharoah would have spared his people much suffering. Pharoah’s fault, not God’s."
I would suggest this argument has been used by bullies since year dot.
'If you make me angry and I beat you up, it will be your fault, not mine.'
You are suggesting God is a tool.

Grim: << You are suggesting God is a tool. >>

I've thought for quite some time now that the God described in the Christian Bible is a Righteous Tool.

God is not the cause of the world. The world is the cause of God. As consciousness evolved in the world to the point where it could deal with abstraction and wonder why there was anything here at all humans with consciousness generated creation stories. A prominent feature in those stories was that of an entity who brought it all into being. The ancient Hebrews were great story tellers and collected the myths common to the middle east in literature known as the Bible. The various myths were patched together. The patching is evident in the various stories in the Bible.

There are two stories of the creation of woman and man.

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

In the above God created man and woman simultaneously. A little later there is another story of the creation of woman.

Genesis 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

When enough people realise that the god of the Bible is as much a mythic creation as the Greek, Roman, Norse and other gods of earlier periods they will abandon the monotheistic religions and probably invent new forms of nonsense.

suzeonline<<<..how do you KNOW...God gave life to the dust?>>>science hasnt...this i know...how do i know it the bible tells me so

<<Why would anyone/..want to give life to dust?>>>ask your mother

<<Who gave life to God?>>>see your body...consists..of millions of living things..living in on../and off..specific parts of it..further your body..consists of quadrillions of individual cell's...

that..'you'...you call me..is really we../us calling ourselves one person despite being many persinalities


re making god..<<I reckon it was his mother...Can you PROVE this is not so?>>..yes..collectivly all living is embodied of god...see the big bang...works on the physical...the big expantion/results in the big contraction...but the unseen essence/logic/light/life/love...the parts of the whole=..god...survives

us=seen...all of us are unseen/cause..till collectivly god says to his seemingly/oneness...let there be light


<<Does an effective Creator create Satan with fore-knowledge?>>of course...anything ANY..OF US collectivly know...god knows...thats why thast we do to the least we do to god..no freewill for us...none for our collective cause/good.god

<<What of the Christian God's design of Satan?>>proof god is not vile/judgmental etc..but fully loving..fully good...alowing even..the most vile..to live

cj<<..I've thought for quite some time now that the God described in the Christian Bible is a Righteous Tool>>>..god is not tool...he is cause of causes....

the good defining goodness...the grace in gracefull.the love in the act of loving...the living..in life..the light..in the darkness..[of the deep]...the reflection of god/..

when will we reflect

the true good...love god...love neighbour...
for this..is the new covenat...

quote from jesu/
new-test-i-meant..