No child protection agency anywhere in the world can protect all the children. The community as a whole should be accountable for the protection of children. Child abuse of all types is found in all levels of society. It is found in the so called traditional families as well single parents and de-facto relationships. All agencies such as education, health and housing have the same role to play, as the child protection agencies. The general public and family are the first line of defence. There are many causes, such as poverty, mental health and lack of parenting skills. The community has a responsibility to ensure that these causes are addressed. It is pointless to attempt to blame one agency or family situation. There is more child abuse found within the immediate family than with strangers. We need to move from the rights of parents to the rights of the child. It needs to be recognised that sometimes the parent is not good for the child. There are some incidences where family support can help the child, but this MUST be done early in the intervention and the parent much be made to realise they will not get a second chance to change. The child protection agency role can only be that of detection and policing. The welfare role belongs to other agencies such as education etc.

Contrary to what Divine says regarding social support benefits being made available to mothers of “children born out of wedlock” when Whitlam was PM, there had always been a pension available to any woman raising children whether a widow, a deserted wife, a divorcee or an unmarried mother and had been since at least 1942. It was based on the Widows’ Pension though set at $1 less.

Social workers, as their duties set out in their own manuals, were supposed to advise unmarried mothers of this benefit prior to 1972 but remained oddly closed-mouthed about it which is why the adoption of newborn babies during the years 1963 to 1972 is now known as the “bumper adoption years”.

Hospital staff in those years were routinely removing the babies of these young women at birth and hiding them on other floors of hospitals, refusing the mother access to her baby until she had been bullied into signing a consent to adoption by social workers and then “socially cleared”. (Their phrase). That is social engineering. And just in case it’s not perfectly clear, under the criminal codes of all states, that is, and always has been, a crime and attracts a 7-10 year jail sentence.

It’s more likely that it is that failed social experiment that we’re seeing the effects of now in this third generation. And, yes, Bowlby’s “Attachment and Loss” would be a great place to start.

Divine’s contempt for this so-called “underclass” of unmarried mothers and their children oozes from the screen and his/her carefully chosen “almost” words - commonly, frequently, often, generally, may be, etc. - is a pathetic attempt to state what he/she believes to be facts by dragging in the usual cast of players - alcohol, tobacco, substance abuse, lack of education, lack of morals, ad nauseam.

The only facts that arise out of his/her assertions are that for every child born of these women, there is a father somewhere who walked away from his responsibilities to them.

Child abuse is equally as likely to occur in middle-class families as it does in working-class families

Houel:"Glad to see someone in the 'front line', 'on the ground' commenting Piper. Actually I just like using those words."

I get that, I liked them to and with your permission I will see if I can use them at some point myself.

Short term fostering in Aussie feels like you’re waiting for which NGO is going to scramble to your door once the court has decided they should go in to long term care. NGO's with their hands up going

“oh oh oh pick us we have empty beds and foster parents who don’t have a clue but we’ll support them and write really good reports to send to DoCS because our wages, company cars, flash offices and super contributions depend on it and we’re going to get about 720 million thanks to our mate Justice Wood and he’ll do right by the kids cause he talked to one once and DoCS wont ever be allowed near them again so it wont matter how the kids are really treated cause DoCS don’t even want to know, nup not even if you call them, we’ll just say they’ve settled well and DoCS will use that line too, having never ever eyeballed them again …”

These NGO’s have a role in early intervention, no one spotted the conflict of interest?

It aint the line Houel it’s how everyone is treated once the family has been ripped to shreds/children saved from abuse. What help is there for parents and even more importantly who is going to make sure the kids are okay.

Can I ask the ones saying the working class (c’mon you mean non-working) and the middle class (everybody else) both have “equal” amounts of abuse and also “all types” if they really believe this?

I’d like to believe all people are just as horrible to their children, but it is not the case in my experience.

Flo – after the child protection agency has done its policing where do you propose they put the children and who should monitor their care? Careful that question is fully loaded.

you spelled my name wrong...<<Flo – after the child protection agency has done its policing ...where do you propose they put the children>>>with older kids of perfect behaviour...of good intelligence ..who cannot be bullied by their peers/nor adults...to give kids a better model to follow...in saflty and in peace

<<..and who should monitor their care?>>adults..who are able to monitor kids in real time...i would not be putting monitoring on the perverts but on the kids to keep them safe...

.have the kids carry an emergency button...for instant help/assistance...that records..THEIR location..in real time...and records all their words spoken..to then..or by them

<<Careful that question is fully loaded.>>.so too the reply...monitor both parties...and tell the perverts to move away..the second they get within arms length...or to the point of their presence...creating..annoyance of kids wellbeing...as ...noted by their monitoring devices....or lose their manhood..then their freedom

Piper, I could pull a Divine and take an across-the-board swipe at the middle classes as being even more likely, but I won’t. We are obviously looking at the problem in different battlegrounds because it’s been my experience that the middle classes have been just as likely in all types of child abuse but the abuse, until that time, had been hidden or otherwise overlooked or too shocking to contemplate - that a fine, upstanding citizen would abuse a child, in any or all ways.

Poor families or families on minimum wages or a benefit of some kind (which is what I originally wrote in my post but had to edit because I’d exceeded the word count) are more likely to attract the focus of the public or authorities than, yes, okay, “everyone else” would because of the perpetuation of the attitude that poor equates to uneducated, irresponsible, neglectful and abusive.

Child abuse is a complex and tragic problem that won’t ever be solved while we lump all members of one socio-economic class in together as abusers or potential abusers of their children and continue to ignore other factors - which is the reason why I entered this discussion in the first place

MISSMA.
The only facts that arise out of his/her assertions, are that for every child born of these women, there is a father somewhere who walked away from his responsibilities to them.

Given that 70% of divorces are perpetrated by women, who is walking out on who.What about the fathers who pay thousands of dollars in child support every year but who are lucky to see their kids once every fortnight.What about the mothers who do their best to deny contact with the childrens father to maximise the amount of child support they receive. What about the mothers who routinely break family court orders placed on them regarding access, or to protect the childrens welfare, but who never get held accountable.

Only last year there was a case in adelaide where around 20 people were living in one house,[ many of them children] in absolute squalor. These women had fled from victoria where they were becoming known to the authorities and moved to sa. The father of 3 of these kids said he would gladly take his 3 children but of course they had to stay with the mother. How did he walk away from his responsibilities. What about baby p who was tortured and beaten to death by his mothers new boyfreind despite over 60 visits being paid by the social workers. His father would have gladly taken him but was denied, how did he walk away from his responsibilities. Yes there are many deadbeat dads who walk away from their responsibilities but we are not all like that and to lay all the blame on fathers is simplistic and wrong.