G'Day All,
How do we end child abuse when whole communities, establishment, legal sections(Courts Magistrates Solicitors etc) can be manipulated to operate outside the given Act & Law that is supposed to give the guidelines for a man to be able to rare his child in a way as to give the child an education nature manners etc.?
If but one case can be shown that the Act & Law is breached by DoCS or anybody else for that matter(Courts etc), Then that case should be allowed to be made public not continually just trying to cover the case up.
There are just to many secrets held by Directors-General "empowered with the near absolute power to be allowed to favour one side of a case to the other,further such power should at all times display non-bias and present an equal approach to the case before them".
Until this happens one secret will become two then four eight you get the drift, just to many secrets.
Thanks Have a good life from Dave.
PS Why don't some people read Attachment and Loss by John Bowlby

Linkages: The system is dealing with 'child abuse' of present day plus the aftermath of the decades affronted of yesterday.

Family and household stress has far wider dimensions than just "complex problems such as domestic violence and drug and alcohol abuse". The "whole" issue within the household and it's place in community needs address.

To protect mothers and their children we need to be aware of the issue over a lifetime, because of the many ways the experience exposes the impact of the 'dysfunctional' practices.

In addressing the issue be it from a increase in reporting, education or courage from an individual, [and their families], support services or community itself..... more needs to be understood and done to heal society of the threats and impact of Child-abuse.

To make a positive mention, I also note the good work by the ALP, to start to open a wider process where the light is dull.

Please hear Ms Gillard on social inclusion

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/breakfast/stories/2009/2689587.htm

Good Work

http://www.miacat.com/

How sadly true! As an ex Health Care worker (Qld Public Hospitals) I attest the problem is not confined to NSW. Political Correctness has much to answer for - especially where children of aboriginal heritage are concerned, but the rot set in back in the mid 70's.

During the Whitlam years Social Welfare was extended to single parents without means of support to keep children born out of wedlock. Simultaneously, Social Workers began advising pregnant girls of this, assuring "a child is better off with its own mother". Consequently many girls, who would have tearfully adopted out their new 'live dolly' then got on with life, then kept baby. Lovely - until the novelty wore off. This happened frequently in my experience especially with underage girls and little/no support from childs father and/or Grandparents.

Flow on effects were:
* Chronic poverty. Social welfare covered bare basics. Young mums without education or work experience struggled to find employment.
* Social disadvantage. The 'seconds' tag attached to single parents regardless of circumstance is a drawback in the mating game where players prefer unencumbered partners. Arrested development, lack of resources and societal disapproval also contribute.

These are not ideal circumstances under which to rear children.

Consequently a new underclass has evolved - one where children grow up in single parent or commonly multiple partner households. Siblings frequently have different fathers. There is often almost total reliance on welfare. Parenting skills are generally poor. Living standards including cleanliness and personal hygiene/grooming may be compromised. There is often minimal interest in education. Tobacco, alcohol and other substance use/abuse is common. Children suffer neglect through parental ignorance/disinterest or lack of resources. They often suffer abuse - especially at the hands of mummies latest boyfriend.

Childhood experience is our 'normality' which is often carried on to our offspring. Today one can observe the third generation resulting from this social engineering experiment.

It's a failure that continues to be perpetuated and one we're all paying for.

G'Day All,
Miacat ALP doing something is the biggest heap of garbage, for the last Twelve years the ALP has been approached to do something to stop the abuse and the criminal behaviour of the removal of my child.
What's the outcome you guessed it nothing more cover up.
It was alleged in court that on the 18/9/1997 I was in a town 550klms from Sydney yet I have a reciept to say that I was sitting in the guessed right again The ALP's Attorney-General's Law Library that former Attorney-General is now a Federal Member.
Results of my son no education torn from his parents alienated from his father traumatized severely his parents ripped apart that will never be together again that he wanted to return to.
ALP doing something don't make me laugh.What do you think that boy will grow like & be when he finally catches up with the truth?
Thanks have a good life. from Dave

“The need to “end the silence” prompted the Australian Human Rights Commission to mark National Child Protection Week by circulating an online survey to gauge people’s attitude and response to suspected child maltreatment.”

How does one end the silence when the agencies refuse to listen?

“The sad truth is that virtually nobody lobbies governments to defend the interests of the most abused and neglected children in the community. However, plenty of lobbying occurs in the interests of public sector social workers and the NGO sector.”

Of course they’d lobby, the NGO’s are the ones who can profit from children being kept behind many closed doors within the ranks of their own foster parents.

The Wood Recommendations did things like change the wording – don’t report unless you suspect “significant harm” instead of “harm”.

Instead of NSW fixing their phone lines to cope they have made it possible for cases such as neglect where the case builds up with multiple and not “significant” clues.

These recommendations also “recommend” that the NGO's take all the foster children. No matter how many times an NGO is in the headlines for abuse towards children in their care they appear untouchable.

Anyone ever head of DoCS owning any accountability for the treatment of the state wards?

I suspect the most abused and neglected children in the community are the ones already in foster care. Fix this, End This Silence, before placing more children in the system.

Glad to see someone in the 'front line', 'on the ground' commenting Piper. Actually I just like using those words. But I knew you'd come up with something good. It's bound to be better than anything the worlds most altruistic counsellor comes up with.

I must ask though, where is the line drawn, or where do people really want the line drawn, on taking the kids away?

I remember some pretty hairy moments as a kid that were pretty traumatic at the time, but on balance I'd have been much worse off I think if I'd have been shipped off to foster care all the time. (Unless it was Pipers house of madness and fun)

It seems to me there WILL be finite resources, and there will always be at least periods in kids lives when their parents are absolute spastics, and do we really want to investigate every rumour and knock down doors in the night?

Maybe we should make compulsory child care run by the state, where kids are interrogated every day. If we could just save one child from their loving but flawed parents!

No child protection agency anywhere in the world can protect all the children. The community as a whole should be accountable for the protection of children. Child abuse of all types is found in all levels of society. It is found in the so called traditional families as well single parents and de-facto relationships. All agencies such as education, health and housing have the same role to play, as the child protection agencies. The general public and family are the first line of defence. There are many causes, such as poverty, mental health and lack of parenting skills. The community has a responsibility to ensure that these causes are addressed. It is pointless to attempt to blame one agency or family situation. There is more child abuse found within the immediate family than with strangers. We need to move from the rights of parents to the rights of the child. It needs to be recognised that sometimes the parent is not good for the child. There are some incidences where family support can help the child, but this MUST be done early in the intervention and the parent much be made to realise they will not get a second chance to change. The child protection agency role can only be that of detection and policing. The welfare role belongs to other agencies such as education etc.

Contrary to what Divine says regarding social support benefits being made available to mothers of “children born out of wedlock” when Whitlam was PM, there had always been a pension available to any woman raising children whether a widow, a deserted wife, a divorcee or an unmarried mother and had been since at least 1942. It was based on the Widows’ Pension though set at $1 less.

Social workers, as their duties set out in their own manuals, were supposed to advise unmarried mothers of this benefit prior to 1972 but remained oddly closed-mouthed about it which is why the adoption of newborn babies during the years 1963 to 1972 is now known as the “bumper adoption years”.

Hospital staff in those years were routinely removing the babies of these young women at birth and hiding them on other floors of hospitals, refusing the mother access to her baby until she had been bullied into signing a consent to adoption by social workers and then “socially cleared”. (Their phrase). That is social engineering. And just in case it’s not perfectly clear, under the criminal codes of all states, that is, and always has been, a crime and attracts a 7-10 year jail sentence.

It’s more likely that it is that failed social experiment that we’re seeing the effects of now in this third generation. And, yes, Bowlby’s “Attachment and Loss” would be a great place to start.

Divine’s contempt for this so-called “underclass” of unmarried mothers and their children oozes from the screen and his/her carefully chosen “almost” words - commonly, frequently, often, generally, may be, etc. - is a pathetic attempt to state what he/she believes to be facts by dragging in the usual cast of players - alcohol, tobacco, substance abuse, lack of education, lack of morals, ad nauseam.

The only facts that arise out of his/her assertions are that for every child born of these women, there is a father somewhere who walked away from his responsibilities to them.

Child abuse is equally as likely to occur in middle-class families as it does in working-class families

Houel:"Glad to see someone in the 'front line', 'on the ground' commenting Piper. Actually I just like using those words."

I get that, I liked them to and with your permission I will see if I can use them at some point myself.

Short term fostering in Aussie feels like you’re waiting for which NGO is going to scramble to your door once the court has decided they should go in to long term care. NGO's with their hands up going

“oh oh oh pick us we have empty beds and foster parents who don’t have a clue but we’ll support them and write really good reports to send to DoCS because our wages, company cars, flash offices and super contributions depend on it and we’re going to get about 720 million thanks to our mate Justice Wood and he’ll do right by the kids cause he talked to one once and DoCS wont ever be allowed near them again so it wont matter how the kids are really treated cause DoCS don’t even want to know, nup not even if you call them, we’ll just say they’ve settled well and DoCS will use that line too, having never ever eyeballed them again …”

These NGO’s have a role in early intervention, no one spotted the conflict of interest?

It aint the line Houel it’s how everyone is treated once the family has been ripped to shreds/children saved from abuse. What help is there for parents and even more importantly who is going to make sure the kids are okay.

Can I ask the ones saying the working class (c’mon you mean non-working) and the middle class (everybody else) both have “equal” amounts of abuse and also “all types” if they really believe this?

I’d like to believe all people are just as horrible to their children, but it is not the case in my experience.

Flo – after the child protection agency has done its policing where do you propose they put the children and who should monitor their care? Careful that question is fully loaded.

you spelled my name wrong...<<Flo – after the child protection agency has done its policing ...where do you propose they put the children>>>with older kids of perfect behaviour...of good intelligence ..who cannot be bullied by their peers/nor adults...to give kids a better model to follow...in saflty and in peace

<<..and who should monitor their care?>>adults..who are able to monitor kids in real time...i would not be putting monitoring on the perverts but on the kids to keep them safe...

.have the kids carry an emergency button...for instant help/assistance...that records..THEIR location..in real time...and records all their words spoken..to then..or by them

<<Careful that question is fully loaded.>>.so too the reply...monitor both parties...and tell the perverts to move away..the second they get within arms length...or to the point of their presence...creating..annoyance of kids wellbeing...as ...noted by their monitoring devices....or lose their manhood..then their freedom

Piper, I could pull a Divine and take an across-the-board swipe at the middle classes as being even more likely, but I won’t. We are obviously looking at the problem in different battlegrounds because it’s been my experience that the middle classes have been just as likely in all types of child abuse but the abuse, until that time, had been hidden or otherwise overlooked or too shocking to contemplate - that a fine, upstanding citizen would abuse a child, in any or all ways.

Poor families or families on minimum wages or a benefit of some kind (which is what I originally wrote in my post but had to edit because I’d exceeded the word count) are more likely to attract the focus of the public or authorities than, yes, okay, “everyone else” would because of the perpetuation of the attitude that poor equates to uneducated, irresponsible, neglectful and abusive.

Child abuse is a complex and tragic problem that won’t ever be solved while we lump all members of one socio-economic class in together as abusers or potential abusers of their children and continue to ignore other factors - which is the reason why I entered this discussion in the first place

MISSMA.
The only facts that arise out of his/her assertions, are that for every child born of these women, there is a father somewhere who walked away from his responsibilities to them.

Given that 70% of divorces are perpetrated by women, who is walking out on who.What about the fathers who pay thousands of dollars in child support every year but who are lucky to see their kids once every fortnight.What about the mothers who do their best to deny contact with the childrens father to maximise the amount of child support they receive. What about the mothers who routinely break family court orders placed on them regarding access, or to protect the childrens welfare, but who never get held accountable.

Only last year there was a case in adelaide where around 20 people were living in one house,[ many of them children] in absolute squalor. These women had fled from victoria where they were becoming known to the authorities and moved to sa. The father of 3 of these kids said he would gladly take his 3 children but of course they had to stay with the mother. How did he walk away from his responsibilities. What about baby p who was tortured and beaten to death by his mothers new boyfreind despite over 60 visits being paid by the social workers. His father would have gladly taken him but was denied, how did he walk away from his responsibilities. Yes there are many deadbeat dads who walk away from their responsibilities but we are not all like that and to lay all the blame on fathers is simplistic and wrong.

G'Day All
Eyesinthesky What about DoCS taking a child on the allegation of Bashed & starved admit in Court they never believed that, place a child with the very people that made this extreme allegation(especially against an ex main stream prisoner) with the very woman who the mother of the child is already recieving Mental health assistance because of the trauma that she faced as a child at the hands of the very woman that now has mine & her child.
Through out all this I am totally alienated from my son the only access that I did get was when the court had specific orders on the "carers" as they continually refused to abide by undertakings yet this has gone on for 12 years
When criminal actions have taken place .
Contact me on graysond49@yahoo.com and I will e-mail you the attachments that prove beyond reasonable doubt that this has taken place
Missma Attachment and Loss by Bowlby is a very good place to start & anyone that wants to talk on abuse & its overflow should read it, then people may understand why abuse is still going on.
Thanks all have a great life from Dave

Linkages: You hit the nail on the head Piped Piper.

“The sad truth is that virtually nobody lobbies governments to defend the interests of the most abused and neglected children in the community. However, plenty of lobbying occurs in the interests of public sector social workers and the NGO sector.”

As PM Mr Rudd said himself a few weeks ago, there is "something absent in the culture of the service in Australia."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26021781-12377,00.html

and,

'a wide-ranging review of the public service will focus on how to improve the quality of staff'.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/03/2676072.htm?section=australia

I suggest it is a whole cultural change required. The burden must be shared.The indifference within the services is building to unbearable levels. The evidence of change needs to be seen in the way support "service" deals with everyday challenges where the linkages that ought to be present are infact wide-as-wide-gaps. There are no advocates here. Too many citizens are told there is nothing for them, that they DO NOT fit into "THE BOX", hence they are overlooked, their life-quality and skill, capacity and value is being lost.... too many fall further through the cracks .... many ... under the mindset of accumlative pressures, resort to a pathway of ill-health and or or crime.

Crime Prevention needs to be seen as a 'will' connected and intergrated as a reform through economics and health. AIM: To resolve issues occuring [often a "whole" perspective] for individuals, families communities, by doing more to connect the life-quality elements before and bove the levels of crisis.

I quote "social inclusive" policies as I quote the need for ALL to apply the Brisbane 2005 declaration on community engagement. When will these policies become something from the top down, within service departments, which include also the culture of NGO's.

http://www.getinvolved.qld.gov.au/engagement/initiatives/ic-engaging-comm/brisbane-declaration/brisbane-declaration.html

LINKAGES:

We need more advocates in Australia.

We need greater understanding between advocates and services.

We need services to share the burden and network at least half the load.

http://www.miacat.com/

Miacat
Take notice of my posts the ALP don't give a damn.
Quote "Any nation that does not care for and protect ALL of its children does not deserve to be called a nation" Nelson Mandela.
The word ALL is total without exception fully inclusive NOT All except this one or that one.
The ALP has as a Federal Member & Minister the Person that at the time(1997) had a reciept from the Attorney-Generals Library to prove that I was at least 550klms from the town that I was supposed to be in.
Nothing done except my child traumatized to the max no education couldn't wipe his bottom at 61/2years of age so who wiped his bottom at school etc etc etc ABUSE.
To take or remove a mans child without lawful consent is abduction the placing of any condition for the return of such child becomes KIDNAP which has no statute of limitation
The deliberate placing of evidence before the Court that you know to be false is PERJURY
Perjury carries the same penalty as the crime in which it is committed. Kidnap carries maximum (LIFE IMPRISONMENT)
In 2008 the PM's office contacted the ALP Minister in NSW to have something done all the Minister proved is that he cannot read as he cannot read the difference between Care, Custody & Guardianship you only have to read the ACT.
All that think that this is bull contact me direct & I will e-mail you the evidence.
graysond49@yahoo.com
Thanks All have a great life from Dave
PS My son's name means Justice & Equality for ALL.

I like your thinking OUG and had a think about what you are saying.

Microchip all children, have GPS capability, microchip unsafe adults, have an alert if one is too close to the other.

We need much better monitoring of NGO foster parents – no more only listening to the NGO workers who state the kids are fine. Anyone’s whose income depends on keeping children in certain homes does not have the level of objectivity needed to see anything clearly.

DoCS have got to start making the state wards a priority like they never have before, practices have to be put in place where someone’s say so that a child is “settled” “fine” “okay” is not acceptable as proof. I imagine many parents would do a lot better in an effort to reclaim their children if they were not living in constant fear for their children in a system that appears to not provide care or protection.

Miacat I’m going to read your message a few more times and look at the links you’ve posted. Right now I’m a little confused with what you mean but I’m guessing that has more to do with my comprehension than what you posted.

Hey Missma, word limits get in my way a lot – especially when trying to be clear. I guess our focus is at different levels, you sound like you are concerned with the issues around how children do end up abused while I’m more about the kids in care.

This is the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff and the rail at the top. We need both aye.

My experience is that the low socioeconomic households are where all the foster children come from and it is where I’d place the most help. Low income seems to create boredom, drug abuses, alcohol problems, depression and anger.

I don't pretend to know the answers to all these child protection issues, however I do believe the author when he stated"...the most vocal and influential lobby groups have a vested interest in promoting family preservation-focused child protection policies. The policies are designed to keep at-risk children with dysfunctional families so that taxpayer funded support services can be provided."

There are many children out there who remain neglected and abused because they have been left with their abusive families rather than removing them from the situation.
I believe all the recent drama following the 'stolen generation' problems have caused too much political correctness in not removing these at risk children.

At the risk of upsetting some Indigenous Australians and their supporters who suffered in that they had been 'stolen' from their parents, there is a whole new generation of neglected kids living a nightmare at home.

Ironically, it was some members of the stolen generation and/or their children who received good educations and upbringings after being removed from their own family, that have gone on to become leaders in their communities as well as becoming politicians out there trying to further the plight of indigenous people.

If children are shown to be neglected or abused in their current environment, then they should be removed until that place becomes safe again, or not returned at all.
This should be the same result for all, no matter what race or creed they are.

Careful Jerry you're starting to sound like one of them lefty dogs (spit).

PP What can I say? when you're correct you're correct we need both the rail and the ambulance well spoke you.

There are two small problems, ( Jerry I'll do the right wing role for you) who and how are we going to pay for the indisputably NEED army....psst Jerry that should be your lot's job instead of the usual ideologically obsolete bumf.

The suggested big brother approach is unacceptable to me (shock horror H) I can't help being a bit cliche here " a gram of prevention is worth a kilo of cure" and its cheaper..but oh that might mean a change in the way we do things. Personal and collective responsibility maybe taking a wider perspective.
Nah that's too leftish and it might upset vested commercial/power interests.(sorry H and Jerry it had to come )Damn that really caring and doing something about it bit.
NB H I can be satirical/sarcastic too.
More power to PP for picking up the slack for our collective indifference...we talk write papers but what do we really do?

Solutions Jerry solutions. Any thinking person knows the problem (even H).

Interesting that many who claim you can't legislate to encourage moral behaviour now want to legislate to encourage moral behaviour.

I personally know two aboriginal members of the STOLEN generation. Two sisters who were taken from their parents and brought up by a church minister and his wife. Although as they put it they they didn't have a terribly easy life and were made to work hard, there was no abuse or neglect,they were given a good education,and although both are now married, raising families, and not now working, both at various times have held down jobs. A few years ago one of them went back to WA to visit her people. What she saw thoroughly disgusted her. She saw her own people drunk all the time, the men beating their women, the women having sex with almost anyone and both parents abusing their kids. As she put it, she was sure glad they stole her.
Unfortunately things are not that much better in many parts of white mainstream society, just better hidden thats all. Until the so called social workers, the police, and the family courts are made accountable for their actions or rather, lack of them, i can't see things improving anytime soon, especially given the large numbers of young mothers, many hardly more than children themselves, who are ill prepared for the responsibilities of parenthood and who have had their children purely for financial gain.

Eyeinthesky, my original post was to correct misinformation posted by Divine regarding when a benefit to single mothers became available which is what he/she based his/her assertion that from 1972 onwards was “when the rot set in”. I only ever referred to single, never-married mothers - you know, the ones epitomised by Divine as living in multiple partner households where grubby, ungroomed siblings frequently have different fathers and they all rely on welfare, are uninterested in education and abuse tobacco (o.O) and alcohol and other substances.

My post had nothing to do with divorced couples and the ongoing losses that that means for kids, let alone warring ex-spouses who use their kids as pawns or endanger their lives and safety in subsequent relationships. My volley was aimed at those who persist in denigrating single never-married mothers who were left holding the baby because the father disappeared as quickly as one can say “pregnant”.

I was going to apologise to you for not being clear but you’ve since posted a broadside at young mothers who you say have kids purely for financial gain, so I won’t. But you know that already because you can read minds.

Re the Aboriginal sisters from WA, dare I say Stockholm Syndrome? It’s never occurred to you that the behaviour of their tribe now is linked to having their children stolen from them, huh? Unresolved grief - you know, like in kidnapping cases.

Piper, I’ve no argument with you re where foster children come from, nor that they’re the ones who need the most help. Hopelessness and futility is a cancer in too many families and it astounds me that society says it’s best for children if mothers stay home to be raise them and, at the same time, begrudges them the pittance with which to do it.

Suzeonline, why was it necessary to remove Aboriginal children from their families in order to provide them with a good education? The real irony of the Stolen Generation is that most of them were needlessly separated from their families only to be horribly abused in care.

And 2nd base:

Eye:”A few years ago one of them went back to WA to visit her people. What she saw thoroughly disgusted her. She saw her own people drunk all the time, the men beating their women, the women having sex with almost anyone and both parents abusing their kids. As she put it, she was sure glad they stole her.”

YOU BIG FAT LIAR! I saw the WA child abuse stats you boys posted!

http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=9402&page=0#150601

You hailed in these stats like you’d found the Holy Grail. If stats could bend over you would have seen the sun beaming. You treasured those stats, you applauded them and reveled in them, these stats were presented like a proud father with his newborn son. How dare you suggest those stats were in any way flawed by letting a real human story corrupt such a concise and damning document?

Your stats said it all; Aboriginals were voted the least likely to abuse children and it would only be the sheila’s beating the children in WA and the blokes having sex with anyone under 4 feet tall.

I HOPE YOUR BIG BOY TROUSERS ARE ON FIRE!

Excuse me there Suzy, I know the practice is that allegedly abused kids are removed and it is something I agree with. But where they are removed to can lead to a whole new set of abuses that little is heard about in this country.

Exam, you confused the bajesus out of me there until I realized who the Jeremy was that you were talking to, now I’m wondering where he worked with child abuse or where his opinion came from.

Jeremy you’re not a mate of Warwick’s are you?

Cheers Missma, I’m all for mums to get help to stay home. Dads too, in fact I think everyone should stay at home.

Sssshhhh Runner, Jesus is watching you

Pied Piper <"..I know the practice is that allegedly abused kids are removed and it is something I agree with. But where they are removed to can lead to a whole new set of abuses that little is heard about in this country."

I beg to differ PP. There have been plenty of stories in the media and by word of mouth about the abuses on children in care, such as the church based homes of old and the child migrant centres. These days we hear about these poor children in some of the foster homes, although I am sure there are also plenty of good foster parents.

So why does this continue to happen if it is well known that some children in care are abused? Is it the fault of the Government agencies who are charged with the job of vetting these foster carers or children's homes? Do we not have enough social workers or child protection agency staff to check that these children are cared for properly if they cannot remain with their own families?

TPP.What i posted was exactly as it was told to me by one of these sisters, to call me a big fat liar is to call her a big fat liar also.I don't know what planet you are on but almost every day in the newspapers and other media here on earth there are horrific stories of child abuse and DV coming from aboriginal communities.The stats you mention are official gov't stats and were posted to disprove the lies and rants by certain other posters on here that almost all child abuse is carried out by fathers. If you can't handle that then too bad.One would have to wonder why the other states refuse to release similar statistics even under FOI requests,what have they got to hide. The NSW gov't has already been caught red handed trying to fiddle the figures on DV and in other areas. I will agree with you though that more care should be taken as to where children taken from abusive parents, are placed. And that more monitoring should take place.
MISSMA.
The fact is that many of the the children from the generation these sisters belong to, stayed in their communities with parents that were neglecting and abusing them.The children of THESE people are now being abused and neglected themselves. In contrast, the children of these sisters [they have 5 between them], are being well cared for and the ongoing cycle of abuse and neglect, which is rampant in the community they came from,has been stopped dead in it's tracks,as far as their children is concerned. Surely that is not a bad thing.
It seems to me that anyone can make a statement like you made regarding fathers walking away from their responsibilities, deadbeat dads,and expect to be allowed to get away with it, but of course no one is allowed to say anything bad about certain single mothers at all.This is on line opinion and i am as entitled to my opinion as anyone else.

There was one big difference in the Indigenoous Stolen Generations as to other children.
The abuses were all very similar except with the Indigenous it was an attempt at the genocide of a culture as the removals were to make the Indigenous white & the paler the skin the more the children were wanted & taken.
The Indigenous never had the grog or the drugs that they freely partake of today they were white introductions so the decay that came was not their doing but like the white they used these drugs & alcohol to "Self Medicate" themselves the same as the white until now we have an "Epidemic" of DRUG abuse(alcohol is a drug) right across society.
Has child abuse risen in percentage or is it due to the massive increase in population?
In 1954(26/1 so where's my card for your holiday) the world population was approx 2billion it is now 6billion so the abuse if remaining the same percentage would be three times greater abuse cases than there was when I was born.
The Indigenous fathers loved their children as much as the white & felt no less heartache at their loss than the white.
So lets all forget the race argument & the gender fight & STOP THIS BLOODY CHILD ABUSE
It can be done it is just the adults wont do it they are to busy with themselves & it is not the Governments or Agencies it is us the people that must stop it.
Thanks have a good life from Dave

Suzy:”… These days we hear about these poor children in some of the foster homes, although I am sure there are also plenty of good foster parents.”

Tip of the ice berg Suzy. We do get to see the odd media story surfacing. I suspect there are penalties in NSW for any information in public leading to the identification of a foster child. No one talks in the fostering game. Complaints to the Ombudsman about DoCS (except in the actual death of a child) are returned to DoCS to be handled internally, in my experience.

Yes plenty of good people, this can not negate the bad.

Over a decade fostering and I have only been fostering here in NSW a couple of years. Every seasoned foster parent I have talked to here has told me to not speak out, do not defend the kids. The gossip is that you will be blacklisted.

Suzy: “So why does this continue to happen if it is well known that some children in care are abused?...”

Political arse covering?
Interagency closing of ranks?
A culture of silence?
Huge amounts of money to be had?
Some NGO’s who have the kids on centrelink benefits plus charge them rent while DoCS also fund them even if the beds are empty. Some NGO’s under contract with a set number of children where other ones can get more children to their carers without limits.

NGO’s calling the shots while the people who work under the Care and Protection Act... well I have never seen them oppose an NGO.

I have witnessed the most appalling lack of any concern for children by Life Without Barriers. I question time and time again what “not for profit” means.

And then we have stories like from dwg and many other parents who are grieving the loss of their little ones. Many stories that involve a "removal" of their children for no reason they can comprehend.

TPP
My loss of my Son is a hurtful thing for me but the issue is my son & his hurt.
No education, physically sick for his parents, allowed mix with the very people that are low life scum that would not make main stream gaol they would have to be in protection,drug addicts & drunks, rock spiders(Pedo's), locked down with the very woman that as you have seen by the ex's assessment, grave concerns by what the ex stated happened to her as a child with this woman that now has the care of my son as the grandfather is deceased, scared and frightened etc etc.
What lays ahead for this boy? As I have saidif the people contact me direct then I will forward them the same info that I have sent you after you had the decency to contact direct to find out more of my son's case.
"Time to end silence on child abuse"
Then this case could do it but I am only one if all got the paperwork and all sent that to the media ministers solicitors etc asking what gives then we the adults who are responsible for the children could start to make a difference.
Thanks all have a good life from Dave
graysond49@yahoo.com

Missma - Not contempt but sorrow for the hardship, misery and lack of opportunity 'enjoyed' by way too many children being born to single mothers of single mothers of ... The lifestyle breeds poverty, insecurity, neglect, aimlessness, risk of abuse, of becoming involved in substance abuse and petty (or worse) crime. Then the cycle perpetuates - often starting mid to late teens.

Sorry to be politically incorrect but TRUTH stands - children from this lifestyle situation are way over-represented in Child Protection and Juvenile Justice systems. Same with indigenous kids. Nowadays they have to be half dead to get removed from appalling situations. Reckon the 'stolen generation' was an attempt at genocide? Go take a hard look at what's happening to some aboriginal kids today. Things they will never recover from. But PC ensures they get to put up with it ...
Suzeonline - she's worked in healthcare too and has a clue. What experience has formed your POV Missma?

Anyway as a society we need to harden up and be prepared to do RIGHT for the child. Apart from basics - adequate nutrition, shelter, healthcare and education, children need a loving, stable, disciplined environment with suitable role models to give them the best chance in life.

We must stop giving kids back to grossly abusive / neglectful parents again and again. If said parents cannot change their behaviour despite support and education then the child/ren should be placed with suitable adoptive parents. That would solve 2 problems - give the kids a fair chance and keep million$ spent by couples seeking OS adoptions invested in disadvantaged Aussie kids.

While we're at it - have a hard look at some 'reproductive rights' this society now supposedly tolerates. The rights of the mentally handicapped regardless of ability to understand consequences of copulation, let alone child care. The right of children to keep babies - particularly the under 16s. The right of women to have multiple children at the expense of the State.
Time for a pendulum swing back to some of the old fashioned concepts of moral and responsible behaviour.

Dave:”Then this case could do it but I am only one if all got the paperwork and all sent that to the media ministers solicitors etc asking what gives then we the adults who are responsible for the children could start to make a difference.”

For the parents with children in care I believe anything being sent to the media about a child is quickly stomped on by threats of punishment for disclosing private information about a child under state guardianship. A mother on another site tried with a Sydney paper and according to her DoCS quickly stopped any story. Altnews has many parents that are looking at doing a march, some others trying to put together a class action, some more have formed a group that is wanting – well I never did figure out what they want. Not many tolerate a foster parent in their ranks.

Devine:”Nowadays they have to be half dead to get removed from appalling situations.”

Umm… this is not the case generally. A few parents I have heard from state that a few malicious hotline calls is enough.

Devine:”Apart from basics - adequate nutrition, shelter, healthcare and education, children need a loving, stable, disciplined environment with suitable role models to give them the best chance in life.”

Agreed, but this is also is not happening.

Devine:”The right of children to keep babies - particularly the under 16s.”

This is normally dealt with just fine in a regular household, your son becomes your brother etc, been going on since time began. It is a whole different kettle of fish if this happens to a young female in this fostering system. As for “reproductive rights” – nup I don’t even want to go near that can of worms.

Devine:”Time for a pendulum swing back to some of the old fashioned concepts of moral and responsible behaviour.”

I think that those old fashioned concepts of moral responsibility and behavior are now required to give The Forgotten their apology? We must insist our well tax payer funded government departments do better this time.

pieinthe sky quote<< A few years ago..one of them went back to WA to visit her people.>>on pension day?...how was the 'visit' arranged...who 'arraigned' it?

<<What she saw thoroughly disgusted her.>>.as no doudt it was meant to...see how she has been re-educated...you met seemingly via a religious assosiation...who are hardly guiltfree...in setting up these drunks..to be seen to be drunks...see that not all her people'drink'...yet she saw not those not drinking but only the wild beasts the system likes to publicly display...its inmteresting she didnt report meeting her mother/father...were they these drunks

<< She saw her own people drunk all the time>>>all the brief time of her'visit'///lol...it sounds so authoritive,lol...and so atypical of that certain bias would colour them all in...ie

<<..the men beating their women,..the women having sex with almost anyone>>.the almost seems weak...<<..and both parents>>>..both HER parents?

<<..abusing their kids.>>>or her brothers/sisyters?

<<As she put it,>>>lol...but..as your chosing to summerise

<<she was sure glad they stole her>>>interesting even she calls it theft...further...did she met her parents...was everyone drunk...how long was she in the drunk camp for?...did she go alone?...seek to live there to make things better.?..

what did she do to help others?...how many kids did she resque?...or did this..weak xtian simply walk away?

understand re-education...is a part of child stealing...

what sticks were put in her eyes..before the visit...via which she 'looked'..went...'home'...

what were her expectations..compared to the..[her]..percieved reality?

you have word of mouth..not proof

UNDER ONE CLOD.
She actually went back under her own initiative to try and re-connect with the people she came from, and was appalled with what she saw. Her younger sister was also considering going back but after what her sister told her decide not to.What i heard may be word of mouth, but it came to me directly from the horses mouth from the person herself. It might do you good to visit some of these small and often isolated communities and see exactly what goes on[ i have actually visited a couple myself during the course of my employment a few years ago, on the railways], HAVE YOU.I believe her parents are dead, she certainly could'nt find them. She went on her own and said she felt unsafe while she was there, even though she is a full blood herself. These predominately aboriginal communities are not safe, particularly after dark. A few years ago i walked through a place called Willcania after dark, a bloke at the country or sporting club there couldn't believe that i had done so, and insisted on giving me a lift back to the motel.
The god i believe in would be happy that 5 of his children are being brought up properly instead of in squalor. Perhaps the god you believe in would not.Perhaps you could enlighten us as to which god you consider yourself to be under.

Divine_ MoreSameNonsense,
To condemn the people that are displaying the end results of pious pompous fools that have ruined the people by the continual removal of children does not stop the problem.
First The Indigenous never had grog but they drank it to drown the hurt that the Cops Business people etc(the respectable people) that went to the camps & supplied the grog so as to have the young girls & boys while the parents were drunk on the grog supplied by the respectable people of the white communities. Add to this the removal of our children for over a century. What do you think is going to happen.
The young girls of today are doing what Peter Costello said one for mum one for dad one for the country add to this the rapid decline of the morals of our society then see where we are going.
You have offered no answers to how to stop this sh/t in society just let all keep going with this DRUG life & keep taking the kids. What do you think is going to be the case in a century of this occurring in the white people. Guessed right the same as we now have with my people.
Then again you would be dead by then & it wouldn't matter to you it would be the children & the children of these that would have a grossly inflated problem.
To fix a problem you fix the cause I suggest you get a copy of the Senate Report then you will see where they say that the removal of the Stolen Generations, The Forgotten Australians I call it "The Stolen Innocences" that the depression of these peoples affects virtually every Australian Family. Then get a copy of John Bowlby Attachment & Loss then even your pious mind should be able to equate the results.
Thanks All Have a good life from Dave

dwg - you don't make much sense but here goes ...

I propose ALL children, regardless of race or creed who are abused and neglected should be supported within their 'family' - ONCE. If despite that support, parents continue with the abuse then those children should be permanently removed and offered to suitable adoptive families.

At least with relatively early SERIOUS intervention the child gets a chance at living a safer life, having their needs met and entering young adulthood with basic education and life skills.

I am totally over the stolen/forgotten - whatever generation. There is opportunity and assistance available to indigenous people that whitey can't access and don't deny it. A cousin of mine is married to a man of mixed cacuasian aboriginal heritage so I have been told about and seen some of the 'perks'. I don't begrudge this - rather feel proud of them both as good people who have used opportunities wisely.

Remember - during this era many white girls giving birth out of wedlock had babies 'stolen' from them under social policies of the times. These babies were adopted into nuclear families and more often were better off than if they'd been raised by a biological parent. I was one as were my 2 brothers (one who was 'coloured') and out of the couple dozen other adoptees of similar ages who are members of my large close knit clan or friends of many years standing, we are no worse off than any of our peers reared by birth parents.

Some of us have traced biological families. Others chose not to. Interestingly my brother who was probably part aboriginal (though that was never revealed to my parents) died in a car accident aged 19. We had discussed tracing his birth mother/parents so after his death I contacted JIGSAW, the agency which linked adoptees and birth parents. Wrote a letter offering to provide information, photos but no-one ever came looking.

Anyway Dave, cast off the 'poor me' attitude, go about making positive impacts on your community and I guarantee you a good life!

Divine_msn
Regards the "poor me" attitude my whole fight is not the hurt that I have nor the hurt that I have suffered it is about the hurt my Son is
& has suffered
You spoke of education my son entered high school grade 7 doing his reading & spelling from grade 2 his maths from grade 3 good education aye(sorry TPP) further the woman that has my child raised my ex,you should read what she states she suffered at the hands of this same woman. My son made himself physically sick for his parents while in the care of independent carers. The supervisor of access couldn't handle the distress that my son displayed when having to leave his parents to such an extent that if he was to continue he would have to review his position(8years as a prison officer & never seen distress of a child like that before)
Like I have said contact me direct & I will send you all the evidence that you want.
Removal of children from parents is only to be in extreme cases fix the cause of the family problems & keep families together.
Adopted children can have serious problems when it comes to medical treatment as the adoptive families are different blood & different inherited problems
My ex was using drugs since thirteen & was on the street going to parties & having sex by 12-13 years old & started having sex while still in primary school.
The mother that raised her has my son so much for moral standards
Dave

Devine:”I propose ALL children, regardless of race or creed who are abused and neglected should be supported within their 'family' - ONCE. If despite that support, parents continue with the abuse then those children should be permanently removed and offered to suitable adoptive families.”

You allow a test like “if…parents continue with the abuse”… not cool. You can’t leave an abused child with the “abuser” while everyone gets better. Can you imagine how unheard and how undefended a child being forced to remain in the home with an abuser would feel?

But yeah – I get that you mean help the family though, being sure before long term care comes in to question. Long Term basically is an open adoption, semantics going on and Long Term brings an allowance until 18 years old if you adopt after fostering a child for two years.

NGO’s can have better projected income. 18 years! The business development managers and chief financial officers would be laughing, hey someone has to.

What time frame for each parent to get better and how better?

The word “suitable” is the biggy. No one is predictably suitable. The test at the other end is after the child is placed; how is the child. Who checks, monitors etc? Let’s not send in the financial officer or development manager eh?

Nothing is simple here, nothing cut dry.

I don’t think Dave does have a poor me attitude, he seems to be explaining what history knows, white man brings alcohol then gives you a reason to drink it.

Pied Piper - Good questions! Cases of severe and extreme abuse - calculated and chronic? No second chances! 'Open adoption' for these kids? No! Suggest child be given necessary info on their background and assistance to contact biological family after age 18 or after 16 with adoptive family and professional support.

Lesser abuse and/or neglect where REAL assistance has potential to turn the situation around - this should be vigorously pursued. If the child needs temporary removal, time limit applies (I say 6 months). Parent/s to have appropriate visitation access under supervision. Extended family should have opportunity to be first care choice - if willing and SUITABLE and be involved in rehabilitation and ongoing support.

If after every effort made to remove/improve circumstances that contributed to abuse, the parent/s have been uncooperative and not met their obligations to the process, the child should be offered for adoption - asap.
Otherwise returned to the parent/s and the family monitored and supported for at least 5 years.
The "Big Stick" - this is one and only chance. IF the child suffers abuse or neglect requiring removal again - there's no return.

Suitable adoptees? Plenty! They spend millions trying to adopt kids from SE Asia, Africa, India, wherever, because there are b-all available here. To be assessed suitable adoptive parents, a couple must be proved stable, solvent, healthy (weight limits apply), within age range, no criminal history and in some cases be the 'right race'.

I believe in open adoption under careful terms and conditions. Children MUST be told they are adopted from an early stage and meaning explained. Older adoptees would need monitoring and the adoptive family supported where necessary. Few kids in this situation would not have 'issues'. Infants unable to remember their origins would not require as much.

So there's my basic solution. Bet it would work far better than current 'solutions'. Bet we'll never see it happen though ....

("Not flesh of my flesh nor blood of my blood, You did not grow under my heart but in it." My adoptive mother's explanation of her feelings towards her children)

Divine_msn
My ex's parents had no criminal record but my ex was already recieving mental health assistance & had been for 18months prior to the removal of what I thought was my son.
Related to the DoCS workers in that town allowed my ex to run the streets when she was only 12-13 years of age also had their own son needing mental health assistance all three of the children of those parents have alcohol and drug problems.
If you would give me some where to send it to you I would send you what the ex had to say in her assessment about her mother
The son that I thought was mine at the age of 11 was not coming home until 4am in the morning sleeping until 10-11 am in the morning
The ex's grandfather uncle father and brother have had allegations of pedophilia connected to them.
The son that I thought was mine has little or no education made himself physically sick for his mother and who he thought at the time was his father held to the words of the man who he bears the name of words that we would stick together
So much for your idea
Child Abuse some elses problem
Bye from Dave

Looks like the media are making an effort to end the myths and the silence. Here's the latest article on child abuse in Australia (published today): http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/6089613/mum-not-dad-more-likely-to-neglect-kids/1/oldest/

Government statistics are a little more factual than the bedtime stories Barbara Biggs has been feeding the press in the last few weeks/months.

YEAH it's about time the media started telling the truth about the ugly side of child abuse.Ms Biggs and her cronies have a lot to answer for.The authorities in WA are to be congratulated for releasing this type of data. I believe the other states have refused to release these statistics even under FOI requests. What are they afraid of. Why do people like DOCS prefer to leave a child with a neglecting and abusing mother rather than place the child with a father who might well be a better parent.

Hi All,

I agree that it is time to end the silence on child abuse.

As a victim of child brutality in an orphanage run by "so-called" Christians, the religious organisation offered an apology and a small some of money as payment without prejudice. If I did not accept that then I would have to wait, possibly years before it was heard in court and I would also have to pay all legal costs of litigation.

I accepted it as at my age, each year I live becomes a bonus, so after stating to them that neither they or I would be able to agree on what should be considered fair compensation, after suffering the outcome of brutality during my years in the orphanage 1939 January-Xmas 1945. Being a positive person by nature I would have to say thankfully I did not suffer sexual abuse. I feel very deeply for those victims.
I suffered only from the brutality of people who used the boys as "whipping objects" when someone had a dirty liver.

I built a wall around myself as a result so that nothing they did could reach or hurt me. Unfortunately that wall stayed with me all of my life and I am now 76. It makes it very difficult for me to get close to anyone, even while married.

I dislike bullies in any form, whether individuals, corporations of government and have spent my retirement as a community advocate on behalf of those more vulnerable and unable to fight or speak for themselves.

Obviously, I still feel angry at the injustices forced upon all children in those circumstances.

I would stress that after so many years any apology will tend to be taken with a grain of salt and judged as merely a public relations exercise.

While governments publically espouse the cause for an apology, departments fight to minimise any compensation offered, some arguing that it would bankrupt the organisations if they had to pay a reasonable compensation.

continued

Look closely at these organisations they have become commercial enterprises at the expense of the suffering of others. Their administration centres (head offices) are buildings that would not shame a government to be seen administering the country from.

The administration is top heavy and so much of the collection is done by other organisations on contract. This is where most of the money is wasted with little reaching the people they are supposed to be helping

Clothing, furniture and other items donated to some organisations are sold off at near market price.

Many depots are franchised who then are forced to charge prices to be able to pay for the franchise and also earn a living.

I also see many donated goods taken to the tip as not being trendy enough for sale or furniture that might need a little repair is not deemed worthy to put in their show rooms.

Many religious groups have lost sight of why the came into being.

They have become profit motivated as any other businesses. social issues are of a lesser concern.

However, let me make this point quite clear. Not all of the charities behave in such a manner and those devote their lives and efforts to help those in need.

However, some of the high profile religious organisations do generate considerable revenue from government funding and the donations of those, who in themselves may not have much but believe in helping those in need.

While there is no question that the aboriginal people have suffered much, but even white children of that time did not fare well if they became immates of an orphanage.

As an advocate I often am faced with a mentality of those who have never been in need, suggesting that these victims must have done something wrong, or are lazy, or are dole-bludgers and so on.

I have always preached a philosophy that until you have walked in the shoes of these people then you should not judge them.

Regards
professori_au

"Mothers carried out almost 68 per cent of cases of emotional and psychological abuse committed by parents, about 53 per cent of physical abuse and more than 94 per cent of neglect cases."

University of Western Sydney academic Micheal Woods said yesterday that the statistics debunked the myth that fathers posed the greatest risk to their children.

Mr Woods, co-director of the university's Men's Health Information and Resource Centre, said if similar data was available in other States it would show similar trends."

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/6089613/mum-not-dad-more-likely-to-neglect-kids/1/oldest/

The data for other states is available, with the QLD Commisioner for Children releasing similar data in QLD last year.

By far the greatest danger to children is "neglect", with single parent mothers the greatest threat as a parent.

Those are the facts, but unfortunately they are not facts that can be publicly made available in a feminist, anti-male and anti-father society.

Vanna,

What proportion of time spent looking after children in a one-parent context is provided by mothers, rather than fathers ? 80 % ? 90%? So is '68 per cent of cases of emotional and psychological abuse [and] ... about 53 per cent of physical abuse and more than 94 per cent of neglect cases' disproportionate ?

Are you suggesting that fathers (or some other configuration of carers) are responsible for the other 32 % 'of cases of emotional and psychological abuse' and 47 % of physical abuse ? Do single fathers have 47 % or 32 % of the care of such children, or a lot less ?

Joe

Loudmouth

So far as child abuse is concerned, most child abuse is "neglect", with child sexual abuse quite minor.

So far as child neglect is concerned, the majority occurs in single parent households with the mother as the single parent.

So far as child sexual abuse is concerned, most cases of child sexual abuse occur in a household with a non-biological parent in the household(ie. step-parent, mummy's new boyfriend etc).

So far as the best parenting is concerned, 2 biological parents are best. That is the type of parenting that has stood the test of time, despite feminist attempts to destroy the family, destroy marriage and have ad-hoc relationships instead.

To All,
We Speak Emotion
Quote John Bowlby, Attachment and Loss, page 105, 1 Volume:-
"Amongst features of the view advocated is that,although affects, feelings,and emotions are commonly treated as though they were discrete entities,it is quite inappropriate so to treat them.To speak of'an affect','a feeling',or 'an emotion',as though it were an atom or an orange,is as inadmissible as it would be to speak of 'a redness'or'a squareness'.Instead, feeling is regarded as a property that certain processes connected with behaviour from time to time come to possess. Any phrase that reifies feelings or emotions is, therefore, held inadmissable.
Before our thesisis developed further,it is well to clarify terminology. Traditionally,'affect'has been used to denote a wide range of feeling experience--feelings pleasurable,distressed,and sad as well as loving,fearful, and angry. In addition,the word'feeling' itself is often used in this broard way. 'Emotion', on the other hand,is always used more restrictively: as a rule it is confined to feelings or affects such as loving,hating,being frightened or hungry,that are inherently connected with one or another form of action". cont.

To All. cont.
"In what follows the word 'feeling'is usedalways as a general purpose term. It is preferred to both 'affect' and 'emotion' because it is the only one of the three words to derive from a verb(to feel) having exactly the same meaning as itself. the word 'affect' is used only in the discussion of traditional theories; the word 'emotion'is usedin the restricted sense referred to above.
Let us start by considering briefly some of the philisophical problems that beset us when we move from the purely behavioural account of instinctive behaviour so far adopted to an account that attempts to include also awareness of feeling'.
John Bowlby, Atachment and Loss can be found by just placing John Bowlby, Attachment and Loss on the search of the computer.
We read this we just might see the roles connected to the raising of children and where all of society is failing .
Thanks All have a great life from Dave

“So far as child abuse is concerned, most child abuse is "neglect", with child sexual abuse quite minor.”

What stats are you running with? Which numbers have forced their way in to your tiny little mind and ejaculated in to your being?

“So far as child neglect is concerned, the majority occurs in single parent households with the mother as the single parent.”

Ah the lazy bitches. The ones the men were trapped in to copulating with and usually hang around long enough to produce a litter.

“So far as child sexual abuse is concerned, most cases of child sexual abuse occur in a household with a non-biological parent in the household(ie. step-parent, mummy's new boyfriend etc).”

Hmm... mummy’s boyfriend, not male, will never be a father, some alien species that biological daddy’s don’t acknowledge as one of their own gender. Fascinating this division in masculine society – fathers, males, mummy’s new boyfriend.

“So far as the best parenting is concerned, 2 biological parents are best. That is the type of parenting that has stood the test of time, despite feminist attempts to destroy the family, destroy marriage and have ad-hoc relationships instead.”

Yes females are known to be the ones in society that have all the affairs. As little girls they all dream that one day they will grow up and meet a man so they can have children and then kick him out so they can get a new boyfriend to come and molest the first mans children because they are all lazy bitches that do nothing but sit around neglecting their children hoping to pop out another sprog for yet another man to defile.

You caught them Vanna, good on ya dude. The feminist plot all along was to rid society of virgins at the earliest possible moment.

Lol Pied Piper!
You have such a way with words, and with so much truth too.

I too have wondered about all these dreadful child-bashing, multi-partnered slut feminists, and feminazi court personel, out there intent on destroying all those wonderful fatherly men who must surely feel humble in their own presence!

However, I could never put it all as succinctly as you...thanks for placing a smile on my dial!

Cheers, Sue.

The Pied Piper,

You certainly have a way with words and foul language. Must have been your feminist upbringing.

Unfortunately the information I previously supplied is correct in all accounts.

Vanna, what on earth does feminism have to do with child sexual abuse?

Or does the word feminism have to be brought into every subject on these pages in order to make you men feel better about yourselves?

No matter what you say, there will never be any doubt that men commit the most numbers of proven child sexual abuse in our society.

That doesn't mean that all men are bad, and it doesn't mean that feminists are therefore out to get all men for this reason.

Can't we just all agree to get on and try to stamp out all child sexual abuse, no matter who are the perpetrators?

SUZEONLINE. No matter what you say there will never be any doubt that men commit the most numbers of proven child sexual abuse.
This is true, but it is also true that biological fathers only account for 20% of proven child sexual abuse. It is also true that in the other areas of child abuse including child murder and neglect mothers commit the most proven cases, in the case of neglect over 90%.
SUZEONLINE. Can't we all agree to get on and try to stamp out all child sexual abuse, no matter who are the perpetrators.
Yes i would like to see this certainly, but i would also like to see child murder, other forms of child abuse, and child neglect stamped out, no matter who are the perpetrators.Anything less is just discrimination.

Ok, ok eyeinmyeye, I believe I have already said all that and I agree with it all. I don't care who did all the abuse crimes, as long as they are all held to account and the children are safe.

I think I have said all this now so many times that I am well and truly finished with running around in 'we did- you did' circles with all the boys and girls on these pages!

Thanks, Sue.

Suzy:”I think I have said all this now so many times that I am well and truly finished with running around in 'we did- you did' circles with all the boys and girls on these pages!”

They are angry and predictable these men and no fun in a debate with such faith in that one small set of figures (from a department they state they distrust) that I do believe one day they will base a new religion on them.

Seeya Suze, this thread has indeed become as entrenched as the men.
Vanna don’t be so precious.

“This policy defies rational analysis of the most serious problems in the child protection system. The Wood Report established that almost half of the 300,000 reports received by DoCS each year concern a relatively small hard core of approximately 7,500 repeatedly reported families.”

Sorry to switch topics on you but do you recognize the above paragraph? Anyone wondered why this “hard core” hasn’t been dealt with in NSW?

And Justice Wood and all that money and that bill passed by both houses and all those changes to the Care and Protection Act. This report did nothing but gather revenue for the NGO’s and create a good solid plan to hide the foster children so not even DoCS can touch them.

Intra-agency policy, the whole department was already hidden and with this report and its recommendations being put in place it will now bury the kids.

Seven and a half thousand families in crises. Bloody hell.

I AGREE Suzeoline, TPP and any other HUMAN
STOP this bloody gender HE/SHE did lets just get rid of the bloody CHILD ABUSE IN ALL FORMS

Read this link that TPP sent me:-

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/915447-overview

Women carry the baby, they breast feed men don't so that means that the woman has first ATTACHMENT to the child
Men have the second ATTACHMENT to the child
The perfect scenario is that both parents should be with the child
BUT
Someone has to work to provide money for a home and a secure place food etc
As the Woman has the primary ATTACHMENT then she should be with the child
So men go to work this will have some draw backs as the man may be injured or whatever
Instead of me trying to explain it all read the above link then see what ATTACHMENT means and its full value
This is why I stress the importance of the SAHM's and thier role not only in the childs life, not only the mans life but across the whole of society
Children are a life long committment if people are not prepared for this type of committment then DON'T play games that have a child as the product of those games
GENDER WAR at the expense of children stinks
THANKS ALL have a read and have a good life from DAVE

suzeonline,
Rather unfortunately there is a direct link between child abuse in all its forms and feminism.

Many feminist have called for the elimination of marriage, and we now have a society where 30% of children are born outside of marriage (in the UK it is 50%).

About 50% of children born out of marriage will lose their father within 5 years, and they are now being brought up in a single parent household.

They will be the children most likely to live in child poverty, and also subject to "neglect", which is the most common form of child abuse.

If the mother has a series of “new boyfriends” , the children are also at risk of sexual abuse from predatory males.

That is the society we presently live in.

Feminists simply got it wrong yet again.

Have a great day.

suzeonline, tpp etc. Instead of deriding the male posters on here for quoting the ONLY official gov't figures which are available to us, perhaps you should be asking why other states are refusing to release their figures even under FOI requests and what they are afraid of, and also perhaps address the issue of state governments like NSW being caught red handed fiddling the figures on DV and abuse, and i believe actually admitting they were doing so. Perhaps if you are so unhappy with the figures mentioned you could get the other states to release their own figures, i doubt that they would be much different, then i suppose if they don't agree with what you want you would discredit those also. Speaking for myself i am not doubting the figures that have been posted, what i don't trust is doc's etc actually being prepared to do something about it, why are you so short sighted that you cannot see this. People like doc's etc have managed to wheedle themselves into a position where they are virtually untouchable under the law, anyone who speaks out in the media about the decisions they make can be jailed, and they are not accountable for any mistakes they make, whether it is placing a child with a known male sex offender or leaving a child with an abusive or neglecting mother. Even if you complain to an ombudsman he will just refer it back to them with the attendant predictable results. I bet if these morons were made accountable, child abuse and neglect would be significantly reduced.

G'day All
We are still doing the gender thing here feminists, chauvenists, males females,
There is still Child Abuse out there, has all this gender fight stopped but one of those abuses? I think not.

Has anyone actually read the link
http;//emedicine.medscape.com/article/915447-overview

I am not real interested about statistics that says this male did this, this female did that have a look at that link and then work out where we ALL have been getting it wrong for so long it is not funny

TPP(and other good carers) cannot be expeted to keep taking these children in knowing that they could be gone this week or next month it is not fair on them and it just ain't fair on the kids
I have no doubt that TPP is a damn good carer, one only has to read the concern and warmth in her posts,about children

Children need a stable secure base from which to venture so lets get head down and bum up and see what can be achieved to put a stop to it all or at least slow the flow of children through the carers like TPP

We may save the next generations
Thanks but have a read
Have a good life from Dave

DWG. i have read that link the first few paragraphs say it all.
Many children experience the loss of primary caregivers either because they are physically separated from them or because the caregiver is incapable of providing adequate care.
The family law system in almost all cases regards the mother as the primary caregiver regardless.Traditionaly that is true but for the last 40 years the feminists have been responsible for the breakdown of the family unit, and the exponential growth of single mother families, they have demanded women have equal rights in the workforce but still demand that they are given absolute rights as far as custody of the children is concerned. If you can't see this well i don't really care, perhaps you are part of the problem and not part of the solution and need to read up on what has happened to the traditional family in the last 4/5 decades, why it has happened, and who is responsible for it. Are you seriously suggesting that a child is better off with an abusive and neglecting mother instead of loving father just because she is seen as traditionally the primary caregiver. I sent you my own story, you be the judge.When i lived with my daughters mother it was i who would do much of the feeding, i changed as many nappies as she did, it was i who would read her a bedtime story, it was i who taught her to feed herself, it was i who toilet trained her, yet it was her mother who was seen as the primary caregiver, go figure. You have read how well my daughter is achieving now, you tell me she suffered from being separated from her so called primary caregiver. My point is that what i am against is not so much an anti mother gender thing, but a system which bases its decisions on traditional family situations which are no longer relevent.

G'Day All,
I apologize the link in my last post should have been
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/915447-overview

EYE,
"DWG, read that and the first few paragraphs says it all".

It was not the sole fault of the Family Court, The Law until the altering of the Family Law Act was bound to a Law of "ownership" of children that was in place from 1892(I Think) where ALL children were the "possession" of the mother this was the case.until they altered the Family Law Act, the only case that displaced this was one from the 1930's that showed that the first born MALE child of church born marriage was the "possession" of the father as it was his hier and successor and to prove that case they weny all the way back to the middle ages and used the Laws of succession(the same used in royal succession)

No I am not proposing to leave the child with a neglectful parent(female or male) I am trying to stop child abuse as it has become a vicious growing circle.

RAD as described in the link above shows us that the early years of a child is extremely important and how RAD can manifest itself in adolescence and even adulthood.

RAD can impair on those affected by manifesting in the way that those affected can have difficulties in forming close relationships, caring for their own children etc

I have no reason to dispute the neglect of your child by your child's mother BUT what was her past did she have RAD and found it difficult in her dealings with caring, close relationships etc?

Why do I ask? Because the Senate Inquiry found that the depression of the Forgotten Australians, Stolen Generations (Indigenious and White) was so "Widespread through the Community" that it would affect nearly every "Australian Family"

The circle must be broken and to do this we must change that which has gone before especially the last 4-5 decades as the abuse and neglect of children is skyrocketing at an alarming pace and that has been in the last 4-5 decades.
continued

continued
What then has taken place over the last 4-5 decades?

The social structure gone from a one worker home to a two worker home,children in day care centers that have casual staff and permanent staff which meens that the children have different carers.

Also we have the women that should be mothers in the work force which doubles the workers available so ultimately halves the bargaining power of the male workers then it stands that it would halve the males wages

Now my ex is a bitch but instead of condemning her for her actions even though I wuold not and could not ever have her under the same roof as me again I must shoulder some of the blame as I was blinded to the needs and wants of our son who wanted both parents in the same home.

With our son gone from the home she set about destoying all that our son required and needed while just out having a good time with drugs alcohol and sleeping with whoever

Having a look at her assessments and what she had to say in them she no doubt had no Attachment to her mother so relied upon her father but he was gone from daylight to dark so she used anyone that showed her any attention and as she aged learnt how to use this to her advantage.

As I say RAD can explain a lot of the causes of what we have today

You have done a wonderful job with your child.

TPP and other good carers out there do a good job but it is not fair on these good people to have children coming and going because they couldn't be expected to have no feeling for the children thast they take in

Also it is not fair on the children

I cannot in 350 words each post limited to 2 posts in 24 hours abbreviate Attachment and Loss, The Trilogy by John Bowlby,
but the worst part all this was known before we turned society on its head

Thanks from Dave

The cause of child abuse is well known... but denied by the feminist industry which profits from dysfunction and abuse.

Background:
We know smoking 'causes' cancer. Smoking increases the risk of lung cancer by 120%. About double.

When children don't live with BOTH NATURAL parents, the risk of child abuse and neglect increases by 2,600% ! !

That's not twice, that's 26 times the risk ! ! !
(Citations and research available PartTimeParent@pobox.com)

To protect children, simply protect their relationship with BOTH NATURAL parents.

I have the utmost respect for loving step-parents! But too many children live in a feminist version of cinderella, with the wiked step-father.

The most dangerous household for a child is a "mum-and-mummies-new-boyfriend" household.

Cunning pedophiles don't becoem scoutmasters or school teachers now-days. The romance a single mum and get her and access to the bedrooms of her children. But if the natural father is still involved in the child's lives, the pedophile stays clear... He may be able to romance the single mother, but he knows the natural father will find out, and as most dads know, the pedophile won't abuse again.

The other situation is the struggling single mum... How much easier it would be if natural dad can share the load? Most natural dads WANT to look after and protect their kids... that's why the divorce court is full of "custody disputes", instead of "you can have them disputes".

Finally pedophiles target emotionally vulnerable children... and fatherless children always have an instinctive yearing for their natural father, and if he is not around, even a 'father figure' is yearned for. These are the vulnerable children so attractive to pedophiles!

Look at the news, horribly abused or murdered children, like the baby-in-the-suitcase, look deeper... they are almost always from "single mother" or "Mum-and-mummies-new-boyfriend" households

Protect children from abuse.
Don't fund DOCS more and don't give the nasties more power (which is what they want). They are making the problem worse, not better.

Simply protect children's human right to live with BOTH NATURAL PARENTS.

Research available
PartTimeParent@pobox.com

.

PTP. You are oh so right about fatherless children yearning for a father figure. At first after i got custody of my daughter, mothers would not let their daughters sleep over at my place and my own daughter was very much suffering due to the lack of social interaction with her peers. I ended up having to write a begging letter to the parents of one of her friends begging them to let their daughter sleep over. This they did and soon it seemed i was the local child minding centre with kids sleeping over almost every weekend lol. Quite a few of my daughters friends lived in single mother households, and the FATHER HUNGER was often pitiful to see. It must be said that in at least a couple of cases the fathers of these kids were true deadbeat dads, one having just walked out on the mother shortly after his daughter was born, and in another case the father was a heavy drinker and had been violent to both the mother and his daughter. However their were other single mothers who would deny a father access with his daughter out of sheer vindictiveness or to maximise the child support they received. Although i didn't realise it at the time THESE mothers were in fact dumping their daughters at my place and going out partying etc. It wasn't till much later that i realised that at least two of these fathers would have been quite prepared to look after their kids while the mother went out, these mothers were just being selfish and nasty and didn't care if their kids were suffering because of it.

parTimeParent,
What do you think is going through my mind when I know that those that are around my son are low life, drugs, alcohol sex, AND Rock Spiders
Why do you think that they wont let me even speak to my son and have gone out of thier way to make this so?
For the last 21/2 weeks because of things that are happening up here I have been having nightmares about my son that is why the posts are all different times late evening, early morning,etc
If you would allow me I will send you some info if you like or you can contact me on graysond49@yahoo.com
What they have done to my innocent son let alone all the others out thereis just absolutely criminal but I am the one that is fighting for his very freedom while lies are just continuing to roll out of there mouths
Thanks you have a good life
from Dave

Replying to Online opinion cry for help!

Hi Dave. I have posted you directly also.

Firstly let me assure you that you are not alone in wanting to protect your child/ren, but are being denied from doing so by the feminist sexism of the divorce industry.

I am a volunteer with www.Fathers4Equality-australia.org (also known as Fathers4Families) and there is a lot you can do to help protect your child and also to help stop this happening to another generation of innocent kids.

What is your current situation?
Please DO NOT tell me the detail of your divorce court drama... Every case has different details, but the outcome is almost always the same. Mum gets the kids (and hence everything else too). Dad is reduced to grovelling for the chance to even see his children... and forced to provide buckets of C$A cash and free childcare in order to even see his kids who he loves.

What time does your kid/s get with you. How old. Are you worried about abuse. does the mother work, or just sponge off you and the taxpayer? IS there a "mummies-new-boyfriend"?

The story is always very similar... and there are are things you can do. YOu will have to swim against the tide... but there is hope for your child!

PartTimeParent@pobox.com

partTimeParent
No I am not going through the divorce Court as my ex-partner has not filed one if she does I will sign it but until then I may talk to women but that is as far as it will go
I will just live the rest of my life without a partner

I married my wife for better or for worse, in sickness or in health until death do us part, what the Lord joined together let no man tear assunder, my vow is my vow.

To yourself first be true with the life I had lived I must hold something above oneself.

It is not the feminist movement it is what she has it is RAD

This case is just a vindictive attack on my son so a "person" can prove that this "person" is able to do whatever this "person" wants and if that means destroying an innocent child and destoying a childs dream with this "person" then so be it.

All involved knew that my wife was under Mental Health and went off her medication and still they attacked me

I will never be able to have her under the same roof as myself again but I will use this somehow to stop the abuse of other children or die trying

Thanks for the decency to contacting me direct

May your Lord shine on you well and All others who read this post
Thanks from Dave

G'Day All
Sorry the paragraph
"this case is just a vindictive attack on my son so a "person" can prove that this "person" is able to do whatever this "person" wants and if that means destroying an innocent child and destroying a childs dream with this "person" then so be it"
Should have read this is just a vindictive attack on my son so a "person" can prove that this "person" is able to do whatever this "person" wants and if that meens destroying an innocent child and destroying a childs dream Then witn this "person" so be it
Children or anyone else with this "person" doesn't matter but then again very few others gives a damn either.
Thanks have a good life from Dave

"Time to End the Silence on Child Abuse"

It will never end it is here to stay

I have documented evidence of the abuse of my Son
Criminal behaviour and Corruption surrounds him but as long as it is someone elses Child that is allowable

Peadophilia, Child Abuse and neglect are here to stay the adults have other agendas money, grog. drugs and rock and roll no wonder the kids are growing the way they are

Thanks have a good life and for the kids I guess there is prayer
From Dave