Yabby, the current federal award for fruit and veg is $17. an hour. If you thought $25 an hour was a fair cop ten years ago, why are you against a safety net of $17., ten years later?
Do you really think Aussie workers should be competitive with countries with lower wages and standards of living?

*Do you really think Aussie workers should be competitive with countries with lower wages and standards of living?*

Grim, that is a terribly simplistic way of looking at business.
At the end of the day, consumers everywhere want value for money.
In our case, we exported to Asia, Europe etc, competing with
product incl China. As our product was much better quality,
we still had a good share of the market. Go to your local
supermarket, you will see Lindt chocolate from Switzerland,
jams from the UK, not from China.

I have nothing at all against a safety net. Where I have a problem
is when that safety net is tied up in ropes, to make it unworkable.
For instance, in the real world, 9-5 Mon-Fri has gone. Now under
the "new" awards being rolled out right now, for some industries
they want double time for weekend work etc. Many people in fact
are happy to work weekends, it fits in with their lifestyles.

Yet those sorts of little jokes are going to push some veg-fruit
growers over the edge, the family will have to do it themselves
or forget the business. Will you pay extra at your restaurant
on Sundays now? etc.

For alot of businesses the numbers simply won't stack up, so they
will have to plan their business model around that, which means that
people who were happy to earn a few bucks on the weekend won't have
that work, its a lose-situation all round, enforced by unreasonable
laws. It makes no sense at all

Yabby, that's a terribly simplistic way of looking at awards.
I can pretty much guarantee there'll be no *new* awards; they're just trying to claw back some of the rights workers had 10-20 years ago, -back when you were paying your people $25 an hour.

"For instance, in the real world, 9-5 Mon-Fri has gone"

Why? If we could do it in the past, why can we not do it now? With advances in technology, chemistry and agriscience, why do you take it for granted that life has to be tougher than it was 10 years ago?
Could it be that the Mon-Fri thing has gone because of the reduction in Mon-fri penalty rates?

Pelican, you said;
The ideal system has to recognise fairness in considering the interests of employers and employees.

My point exactly, how is it fair that an amployee can leave at will yet an employer can't employ at will?

Can anyone explain the fairness in this.

The fact of the matter is that UFD WILL COST JOBS. Fine, don't believe us but be prepared to pay the ultimate price.

The cost of living is rising. Hours are being cut. Benefits will being reducing. Flexabillity within the workplace will be lost to a cetain extent. Manufacuring will begoing off shore and Job security will be a thing of the past.

Well, you lot wanted it bad enough, so now you have it.

And your leader is nowhere to be seen. Well done sharon. Pick a fight then run.

* they're just trying to claw back some of the rights workers had 10-20 years ago,*

Grim, they are not changing awards to suit a changing world.
In the 60s, Australia was a very different place, people are
going forwards, you want to drag them backwards.

50 years ago, going to church was a common occurrence, shops
were closed, so were many restaurants etc. Things have changed.

Some people are quite happy to work on a weekend day, each
to his own. Now if you had an award saying that you can't
compel people to work on a Sunday, fair enough. Not one setting
up punitive barriers, where it makes more sense to close a business,
even if that fruit needs picking or those sheep need shearing.

Now the reality is that there are no more huge tariffs, making
goods prohibitively expensive for consumers. But businesses
outside of mining and farming need to adjust to that changing
world, not drag them back by 50 years. Otherwise Australia
will simply remain a farm and quarry.

Life hasn't become tougher, its simply changed. But live in
the past if you like. That is exactly why we need old
generations to die off and young generations to come along,
as many of our old fart generation seemingly just can't
cope with change.

So no one, not even MIA sharron can answer one simple question.

How can this system be seen as 'fair' to both sides?

Why, because it's just not fair and the end reslult will be LOST JOBS!