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The Forum > Article Comments > Jeopardising their health > Comments

Jeopardising their health : Comments

By Nina Funnell, published 1/7/2009

According to the Catholic Church it is perfectly appropriate to jeopardise young people's health to protect their 'moral health'.

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A one-sided piece needlessly levelled against the Catholic Church.

There was an OLO article yesterday by Dr Renate Klein: http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=9112

It had facts and logical arguments, unlike Nina's article.

Nina, the Catholic Church is not stopping anyone from having an injection. It promotes behaviour that is physically and spiritually healthy. If people follow it, there is no need for somewhat risky medical treatments to guard against diseases such as HPV. For an organisation that has billions of people worldwide belonging to it, it does well to advise against such a treatment. It is simply being consistent.

You may think it impossible for people to live up to Church teachings, especially re sexual morality. I will argue that you are naive and you will argue the same back. However, there are many people that follow Catholic teaching to warrant the Church to send out this message to them: as faithful followers of Christ's teachings, there is no need to undergo this risk.

For people who don't wish to follow the Church's proposed way of living, it is not stopping them from taking those medical steps. You make it out that the Church is harming people in much the same way that anti-Catholic people argue the Church's stance on contraception is harming people in Africa. The Church's proposal of abstinence and faithfulness is increasingly used as the tried-and-tested advice as it is the best method. Many secular publications argue the same. Your line of argument would propose that promiscuous Africans, thus ignoring fundamental Church teachings, are influenced by its stance against contraception. This is illogical.

It would have little effect in its task of promoting sexual morality if the Church said: "Don't be promiscuous, but if you do, make sure you take these safety precautions."

Do you honestly think that a man who has oral sex with other men is listening closely to the teachings of the Catholic Church and won't go and have the injection?

There is enough advice out there for promiscuous people. The Church is simply advising its faithful people and promoting healthy living - both physical and spiritual.
Posted by stop&think, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 5:57:53 PM
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Hmmmm! It seems that this rather shallow essay is somewhat mis-titled... as it has little to do with "jeopardising" the health of those that may be interested in Gardisil, but rather a thinly- veiled attack on the Catholic Church.

If Nina is genuinely interested in the health issues surrounding this intervention, she should read carefully this piece by Renate Klein that appeared in On-line Opinion a few days ago.

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7786

At least Klein's article does point out the possible dangers that Gardisil may represent to the unsuspecting! Better to be medically forewarned than rush into something that may possibly prove to be physiologically dangerous. Caveat emptor!

http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7786
Posted by Yuri, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 6:03:42 PM
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If Nina wants to raise her risk of cervical cancer let her. She has a great hide in criticizing any group that are promoting some godly values. It is the godless values that has led to perversion and the very diseases she so fears. The promotion of homosexuality has led to many more hospital beds being taken up than anyone will admit to. Now we are suffering due to other perversions and all Nina can do is blame the Catholic church. I for one am not a fan of the Catholic church but Nina's naive view that all you need is condoms and vaccinations in order to reduce disease is morally bankrupt.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 6:39:51 PM
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There. Do you see, Nina? You and I are not capable of deciding what is moral or appropriate. It must be forced on us from above, preferably by a celibate man in a skirt who will protect child rapists while ensuring that ever more children are born to people who are unable to care for them.

How dare a feminazi like you try to suggest that the world has moved on from the Dark Ages.
Posted by Sancho, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 7:38:58 PM
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'There. Do you see, Nina? You and I are not capable of deciding what is moral or appropriate. It must be forced on us from above,'

Well it is better than the amoral views that are being promoted from below (straight from the pit of hell). By the way Sancho, very few of those who were inspired by God to write the holy Scriptures were celibate. It is the recruiting of homosexual priests and banning legitimate sex that has led to so much child abuse in the Catholic church. Even you should be smart enough to see that. Maybe more discrimination is needed in selecting priests, teachers, doctors etc.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 8:09:48 PM
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Sancho, you could have contributed to this debate by providing some reasoned arguments in favour of Nina's position. But it was too easy to throw out emotive phrases of unfounded and unfair claims.

No one is forcing anyone to decide what is moral and appropriate. The Church has a role to offer sound advice to its followers, who, if they follow the advice, are guaranteed a physical and spiritual health of far higher likelihood than from following any other advice.

In fact, there is a moral obligation of the Church to offer this advice, particularly when the great majority of voices in the media and in public debate promote moral choices that create health risks, such as open promiscuity. Due to our vested interests (pharmaceutical companies, ideological bias, personal moral decisions), as a society, we tend to turn a blind eye to these health risks and offer band-aid solutions. It seems too hard to advise against promiscuity. But all the facts show that it causes all sorts of moral and physical problems. Sometimes the truth is hard to bear, but you would have your head in the sand if you denied that unnatural sexual behaviour, coupled with multiple sexual partners, leads people to contract diseases. And as I said, that's just the physical trauma.

It is agreed that these band-aid solutions, such as the cervical cancer immunisation, are all some people have, if they find themselves compromised by health risks. There's no arguing against that. But don't complain when some people don't need those band-aid solutions because they have made a greater and wiser choice.
Posted by stop&think, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 8:09:59 PM
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Catholics have every right to refuse Gardisil, if they believe that sexual morality will lesson the risk of cervical cancer. Having less sexual partners would decrease your risk of contracting HPV virus, however, many good catholics, and other people who are not promiscuous can, and will, contract this virus and develop cervical cancer. To deny this treatment to them on 'moral grounds' is hypocritical. I have many religious friends, of various faiths, and it seems most other religious people value the wellbeing and health of each greater to issues of judgement.

As for the article by Dr Renate Klein, this is a clear case of scare-mongering that I'd expect from a member of the "Feminist International Network of Resistance to Reproductive and Genetic Engineering".
Posted by Stezza, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 10:16:15 PM
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* if they follow the advice, are guaranteed a physical and spiritual health of far higher likelihood than from following any other advice.*

Clearly mental health was not included here, for we know that despite
all that praying, despite all that training, even the Catholic clergy
are sexual beings and preaching abstinence to them has been a
dismal failure.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 10:58:07 PM
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Stop&think: "Nina, the Catholic Church is not stopping anyone from having an injection...For people who don't wish to follow the Church's proposed way of living, it is not stopping them from taking those medical steps."

Actually, numerous catholic school principals (under advisement from the church) have refused to stock Gardasil and administer it to young women. This makes it much more difficult for young girls to receive the vaccine as it would require an extra trip to the GP, often at considerable expense. While the Church has not *banned* Gardasil it certainly puts up roadblocks.

"You make it out that the Church is harming people in much the same way that anti-Catholic people argue the Church's stance on contraception is harming people in Africa."

Absolutely! Their stance on contraception and condoms in Africa is reckless and irisponible. The notion that condoms should be banned bc they contribute to the spread of AIDS is the exact type of catholic illogical double think I find ridiculous and have outright contempt for.

Yuri: this essay is a "thinly- veiled attack on the Catholic Church"..
well obviously i didn't go far enough then. It was meant to be a direct and outright attack on the church.

@Sancho: :-)

Stop&Think: "The Church has a role to offer sound advice to its followers" like what exactly? That evolution is not real and that fossils were placed in the earth to test our faith? Really, I find your handle name incredibly ironic.

As for Renate Klein's piece, I welcome the debate and her position although I do disagree with this sort of radical feminism. Using a few anecdotes of times when things have gone wrong ignored the benefits to the vast majority of the population. Also, what medications do not have some unintended and negative side effects?
Posted by ninaf, Thursday, 2 July 2009 12:56:50 PM
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Also it's interesting to see so many conservative Catholic types getting in bed with Renate Klein, a radical left feminist. What odd bedfellows, and yet it's remarkably similar to pornography debates where anti-porn feminists and Catholic conservatives have closed ranks and campaigned against the porn industry.

It's very amusing to see two such groups, with competing agendas in every other regard, form an alliance of such convenience... well done to both groups on their paper thin politics and superficial alliances...it's like school yard politics, though with more stupidity.
Posted by ninaf, Thursday, 2 July 2009 1:07:02 PM
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I'm sorry, but the Catholic Church has lost all moral authority on anything to do with sex. The good old pope can barely bring himself to say the word condom! Despite overwhelming amounts of epidemiological evidence that condoms prevent the spread of HIV and other STDs, the Catholic Church continues to maintain that they should not be used. The Pope's teachings/follow-or-you-will-burn-in-hell-instructions are directly killing people. I'm sorry -- that's how it is.

Apparently, though (thanks runner!) the Church is promoting "godly values", so this is all OK. I'm sorry, what are godly values? A quick read of the Old Testament reveals vengeance, nepotism, anger, violence, irrationality and arrogance as being classic Godly Behaviour. If you're going to try to back the Church, at least read the whole book, not just the bits that make nice bed time stories.

Also, it's a bit rich for the Church to say "Hey don't have sex, sex is bad" whilst a disturbingly large proportion of them touch/etc kids for a good time. Child abuse is endemic in the Church world wide, and enormous amounts of effort have been expended to protect the perpetrators. When the Church cleans up it's sexual game, then at least it won't be hypocritical when it tells others what to do (it will still be wrong though).
Posted by VelocideX, Thursday, 2 July 2009 2:50:52 PM
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From the crusades to the inquisiton right through to the current criminalisation of abortion in places like Nicuragua, the sad history of the church is naught but a tale of power, greed and abuse. To delude yourself into believing that the Catholic church is somehow based around moral legitimacy or equality and forgiveness only shows how powerful the effects of it's millenia old propaganda network are.

Why do you dimwits insist that religion be allowed a seat at the table when it comes to the issue of public health policy? Such policies are rightly formulated by experts, implemented through our democratic representatives and are based on empirical research, which co-incidentally is the exact opposite of the superstion and mindless tradition that you clowns elevate to the sacrosanct.

I really cannot understand why we as a society allow the terms of debate surrounding issues such as this, abortion and homosexuality to be framed by people who have the temerity to label liberal-minded people as deviants and perverts for simply basing our thought on rational principles. Because while Catholic crimes such as the looting of South America to feed the kleptocracy in Rome may now be but distant pinpricks on your (well-used) theological rear view mirror, the current blood of every Tanzanian woman who could have used a condom, every girl locked into an abusive and loveless marriage by an unwanted child, every American or Australian boy who ends up swinging from a noose after hearing one fiery semon too many will be on your hands.

But out and keep your moronic fear and insecurity to yourself.
Posted by Dr Fresh, Thursday, 2 July 2009 3:27:57 PM
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velocidex, it is absurd to suggest that the catholic church has lost its moral authority. it never had it to begin with.
Posted by bushbasher, Friday, 3 July 2009 1:00:53 AM
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Nice one Nina.
The church apologists really don't like other people playing by their rules which is "stick the boot in, no respect".
They also hate for unfiltered truth to be revealed about their behaviour.
Being the crimminal harborers they are, I find nothing surprising about their behaviour anymore.
1) Worldwide paedophile protection society.
2) Thousands of Africans killed by banning funding involving condoms or, (God forbid!) teching kids about sex and their bodies.
3) Political interference world-wide (secret of course.)
4) Supporting blind puppets like Bush cos they "got God". Seems truth is irrelevent when political support is on the line.
5) Anti-science movements world wide. The anti-evolution movement is a great example of the lies they are willing to perpetrate.

All this shows they have no moral standing whatsoever. Just apologists like runner who clearly display their hatred of "the other tribe". Religion ancourages "us and them" and stops people maturing properly. Faith is *no* substitute for knowledge, maturity and wise practice...but it sure is a hinderance!
Posted by Ozandy, Friday, 3 July 2009 12:15:49 PM
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Logic and research are terrible weapons to turn on an innocent institution.
Posted by jl, Friday, 3 July 2009 1:21:52 PM
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Considering that the catholic church forbids the use of condoms, I think they would be the last place to turn to for sexual advice.
Posted by Shadow Minister, Monday, 6 July 2009 10:46:32 AM
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