[By contrast, Islamic theology is profoundly incompatible with western democracy]

Unfortunatly, it would seem that Glorfindel is correct, when you look around the world at all the majority-Muslim countries and see what goes on there, and what sort of governments they run. Muslims in Australia can argue this point as much as they like, and can claim whatever they want about wanting to assimilate. But the proof is in the pudding, on the other side of the world.

This is in a stark contrast to Christianity which has contributed to building Western democracies.

Another case of needing to analyse each religion on it's own terms rather than lumping them all together.

What a coincidence! I heard on Radio National just one hour ago, that 500 Indian students in Australia have been hit or abused in some way.
Before that, I spent a couple of hours with a group of women who take the line that "if they want to come here, they should be made to learn English first". I am convinced that tribalism is alive and well in Australia.

Examinator,

no emotions in my perceptions. I rather used Excel that returns numbers and facts.

My stated percentages are from the German Governments bureau of statistics. If you read German I suggest you have a look there yourself.

I am not xenophonic, how then could I live between all you Aussies. I love it here. I have spent years in other countries as well, it was a pleasure. And I have muslims in my family which I will better not comment on.

Sorry for my bad English, at least I try to make myself understandable and do not expect someone talk in my mother tongue when I visit the RTA or so.

Evolution is amazing as long as I do not get evolutionized back to the dark ages.

I did not mean to say that in Australia it is as bad as in Western Europe.

I just mean it would be wise to watch that, and draw conclusions, like not supporting those who refuse to integrate, but let them enjoy life where they are welcome and will feel at home, namely in an islamic country.

The future generations you mention, in Western Europe they do not lapse their religion, just the opposite, and they do not integrate with society but change them they way they want.

They have already taken over parts of big cities where they treat the indigenous population with contempt.

Hey Trav,

Christianity did not build the Western democracies.

After the fall the Western Roman Empire (496 CE), the West entered a Dark Ages under the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Under the Church, little was achieved, in comparson to, say,non-Christian China.

Christianity held back Western progress for over one thousand years.

With the Enlightenment and the Great Divergence, knowledge from the Greeks, gained via the Muslims, guided by free-thinkers, allowed theory to be applied to technique. Wealth and power shifted from the Church and Nobles to Capital owned by Commoners. Reason replaced superstition. Countries like France and the United States developed secular constitutions.

Admittedly, the Christian founders of the US, were heavily involved in the slave trade or were slave owners themselves (based on the Bible's teaching). Yet, slowly freedom and equality gained traction.

Christians formed bodies, such as the Ku Klux Klan. Even so, progress has been made.

As noted twice by me in this thread. It was the Muslims, not the Christians, whom guarded the knowledge of the Greeks. Circa. 800 to 1300, Western knowledge was behind that of the Muslims. The Christian Church supressed alternative sources of knowledge.

Modern democracy is about setting the individal apart from the Church and State.

We would not be able to debate religious matters on OLO, if the Christian Church was in power.

O

Your status is irrelevant to the topic as is your language in that it isn't so bad that I can't see the faults in your reasoning.

Your stats are wrong. Muslims simply do not form 65% of the school aged children in Europe not least in Germany (in areas perhaps).
Stats available show that Muslims are very much in the minority in all W European countries.

The rest of your points are your perceptions but aren't supportable
to the extent you say those that are are trivial betraying their basis....your fear(phobia).

Evolution means cultures need to adapt or disappear German culture has and continue to change...
By adapting to Islam is not going to evolve you back to the stone age. That comment is emotional and silly. German day to day culture will change regardless of you
My concern is that you don't seem to be matching the change... but that is your right as it is mine to point out your phobic attitude for the sake of objectivity on the topic.
Anyway have a good stay.

The article seemed to contain a lot of spin, misdirection and double standards.

A couple which stuck out were

- Australians are judged on the basis of the actions of the more millitant anti-muslim part of the population yet the author does not seem to want Islam based on the actions of it's more millitant adherants.

- Building mono-theistic (and potentially mono-cultural ) schools is touted as a great step forward for multi-culturalism. In what way does isolating children from other faith backgrounds contribute to multiculturalism?

It was also interesting to note the lack of mention of "calls to prayer" in relation to opposition to the building of mosque's in suburban areas. That's an item which has featured heavilly in the media reporting I've seen on that issue and if the claims are true then a significant issue.

I do find it difficult when particular groups fight to maintain their own cultural heritage while insisting that other groups abandon aspects of their cultural heritage.

R0bert