Rabkin arrogates to himself "Jewish morality" in endorsing the anti-Zionist propaganda charade "Seven Jewish Children." This play, however, is openly antisemitic, putting sentiments into the mouths of Jews that do not come from them at all, but from their enemies. Even the title stresses the Jewish animus.

Rabkin's alleged "Jewish morality" looks suspiciously like secularist non-Jewish socialist left morality, in fact, effectively anti-Judaic, and considers all right-liberal or right-centrist democratically elected governments "fascist."

Furthermore, Jewish morality gives central place to empathy with the "Thou" addressed in debate, but there is no empathy at all in Rabkin's account. He fails to acknowledge any humane decency at all in Jews who disagree with him (the vast majority), or in Zionism. He denies any justice to its cause, any humanity or even rationality in its advocates - they are all brutal immoral hypocrites, "fascists," blah, blah, blah.

Correspondingly, Rabkin finds nothing problematic in the openly genocidal and racist hate incitement from Palestinians in schools, mosques, media, etc., nor their glorification of open terrorism, etc. - they have no moral responsibility at all, only Jews do. Ethnic cleansing is the official demand of the P.A. in regard to Jewish residence in P.A. areas, but Rabkin ignores this in his eager defamation of Israel's non-existent ethnic cleansing.

Rabkin also repeats the false claims that Israel dispossessed and excluded Arabs from their new state in 1948. If the Arabs had accepted the U.N. resolution creating a Jewish and a Palestinian state, as Israel wished, there would have been no refugee movement at all, and no dispossession; instead the Arabs sought to annihilate the Jews and their state, and rightly lost. The Arabs, not Israel, have created the permanent Palestinian refugee camps which remain a standing scandal, and allow no integration of Palestinians into any Arab society. However, Rabkin's "Jewish morality" operates only against Jews, not against those who seek to murder them.

By the way, on "fascism," Rabkin can bone up on what it actually stood for, by reading Judah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism, which deepens the analysis of Paul Berman, Terror and Liberalism.

i can only agree with the confusion of values..[i have more jewish friends than non jews,...none follow zionism...[nor the talmud]..but the norhern teutonic bolchovic jews arnt really true jew...

but it gets too confusing to explain the talmudic jews,..wrote their own rule book only a few hundred years ago...or about how they made the new symbol..[that subverts the lampstand]...as they chose to reject the light

i suppose its a family matter...i wish my brothers would just realise the messiah came and delivered the new covenant,and realise the life giver is not served by any death...and realise all land belongs to god..that the mesiah revealed love god by loving neighbour

its time some reason entered the holy land...by their deeds will we know them..[gods reason,..ie life,love,logic,light,..not mens reason creating only death...[yet wantomly destroying everything else]..

man is not meant to live by bread alone...but..those claiming to be gods people..know him not..[god GIVES life]..[all life]

but one god gives all life..their lives to live...

even the most vile of life...yet gets their gift of life..from the one life/giving god,..if that dosnt prove the truth..the messiah revealed..[ie THE god of grace love and mercy]..then nothing can

if supporting israel means supporting death..[men are serving two masters]...ye shall have no god but god...

his command of thee SHALT NOT MURDER is law

sabbath might be made for man...[but seemingly not for the state of israel]...was the land returned in the sabbath year?...why not...dont gods people follow gods law?

12 tribes went into the desert...one was israel...how did the tribe of israel...become the tribe of levi..[the priest class]

Sadler do me a favour.

Before you sprout any more stuff about Israel read "scars of war

wounds of peace" by Schlomo ben-Ami.

I recommend it highly.

So Sadler if the Arabs were to start another war and this time win would the israelis accept that they lost and go away? Like you seem to expect of the arabs.

one needs wonder..what the talmudic basis of values..is giving the new priest class in israel

thus by the maxim of..by their deeds will we know them

Israel Threatened by Shoes,Toilet Paper And Laundry Detergent
http://www.wrmea.com/archives/May-June_2009/0905022.html

ISRAEL APPARENTLY considers toilet paper, laundry detergent, dish soap and shoes threats to its security—why else would it add these mundane and harmless items to a laundry list of basic necessities not allowed into Gaza?

Nor is the exclusion of these necessities a harmless idiosyncrasy—for, with the exception of goods that are smuggled in (see Jan./Feb. 2009 Washington Report, p. 19),..nothing can enter or leave the Gaza Strip without Israeli approval.
http://uruknet.com/?p=m54606&hd=&size=1&l=e
The besieged and battered 25-mile-long stretch of land, regularly referred to as the world’s largest prison,is home to 1.5 million inadvertent inmates,..nearly two-thirds of whom are under the age of 18.

im seeing a theme here..[the motivation and faulse intel ..[we-pens of mass distraction?..that sent us to iran,..by/via intense lobby from those following talmudic law..
http://careandwashingofthebrain.blogspot.com/2009/05/why-are-these-israeli-rabbis-so-filled.html

treating religion like a science..and science into a great destraction...needing a clash..to bring on armogeddon

http://news.aol.com/article/iraq-torture-photos/501890?icid=main|main|dl1|link3|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Firaq-torture-photos%2F501890

lord..forgive them they..[mostly]..know not what they do..
http://uruknet.com/?p=m54634&hd=&size=1&l=e
..are doing..is bringing hell/..right here on earth

http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/05/28/mohamed-khodr-the-three-branches-of-the-aipac-the-executive-the-legislative-and-the-judicial/
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/05/27/israeli-parliament-oks-bill-to-outlaw-denial-of-israel-as-jewish-state/
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1088912.html

My earlier comments still stand, unaffected by the attempts of later posters to challenge them. Most of those posters are ignorant of the facts. E.g., I can only be amused at the semi-literate statements of "one under god" that "the norhern teutonic bolchovic jews arnt really true jew" (sic). His comments on the Talmud are truly laughable. But one thing is clear: this poster is not just against Israel, but against all Jews and Judaism itself, which his own "god" (sic) Jesus, actually endorsed and lived. This is the sort of person who eagerly applauds Radkin's mislabeled "Jewish morality." If he is able to, and is even willing to learn, I would suggest he read a real Christian understanding of Israel, e.g. pastor John Hagee, In Defense of Israel, or David Brog, Standing With Israel.

"Seneca" is more literate, and has even read a few books. I recommend to him Alan Dershowitz, The Case for Israel, and his new book just out, The Case for Moral Clarity: Israel, Hamas and Gaza, along with Bennie Morris's new book 1948, and above all Mitchell Bard, Myths and Facts: A Guide to the Arab-Israeli Conflict (available on-line at http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mftoc.html
this work will refute the standard libels and fantasies so often encountered in anti-Zionist pro-Palestinian discourse.

"mikk" thinks he makes a solid hit with his question "Would the Israelis just give up and go away if they lost a new war started by the Arabs, as they seem to expect Arabs to do now?" If the Arabs won any war with Israel it would be wiped out, and the Jews annihilated. This has been the promise of successive Arab leaders and aggressors, in 1947-8, 1967, 1973, and presently out of the mouths of Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran. That's why Israel must defend itself firmly. If the Arabs lost, they merely suffer a defeat. If Israel loses, it ceases to exist.

I return to Rapkin. A "Jewish morality" that consists of siding with and endorsing murderers of Jews, that shows no empathy nor even knowledge of Jewish values, is neither Jewish nor even decent.

sad-ler,..you as a jew should know the blasphemy inherant in claiming the messiah to be god..[jesus in no way said this]..as many jews seeing the truth in his words well know..

his mission was to unite the fathers divided house,..and make a few corrections like the lie of an end-time judgment day/and that of a wrathfilled god..but its easier to ridicule the new covenant he brought than to try to live as jesus revealede we would live..[once we knew our fathers voice]

but clearly you havnt read the talmud you blindly defend..ask why settlers want talmud law?

http://www.biblestudysite.com/factsarefacts.htm
quotations;from the Soncino Edition of the Talmud,(Book)

YEBAMOTH,60b...Rabbi.Ramanos who conducted an inquiry and'found'in it the daughter of a'proselyte'who was under the age of three years and one day(14),and Rabbi declared her eligible to live with a priest(15)."

(footnotes)"(13)A proselyte under the age of three years and one day may be married by a priest...(14)And was married to a priest.(15)i.e.,permitted to continue to live with her'husband'."

(Book)

SANHEDRIN,55b-55a:"What is meant by this?Rab said:Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that.

(footnotes)"(1)The reference is to..the passive..'subject'/victim..of sodomy

as you should know the talmud is but a trecent writing[certainly has no linkage to the teachings of the mressiah..who's new conenant is simply love god by loving neighbour...

revealing even a thief crusified alongside him..on the cross will this day..sic..be re-born in heaven..then briefly returned to reveal we all will be born again..[having the armogeddopn end time wont bring the messiah]..he all ready came

The Talmud (which comprises rabbinic discussions occurring over centuries, from 2,100 to 1,500 years ago, which in turn continue an much more ancient oral tradition of mainstream learning going back to Mosaic times) does not endorse sex with minors, indeed, it is forbidden. The Talmud, and Judaism as a whole, treats marriage as a chief symbol and form of holiness; it justifies no desecration of it, much less pedophilia, promiscuity or adultery. The highly selective and polemical quoting of snippets from the Talmud, without full discussion of context or commentary, is characteristic of antisemites; you ought not to indulge in it lest we think you one.

The historical reality is that Jewish family morality was the envy of the ancient world and was one reason so many then converted to Judaism, especially women, and it remains very high, especially and precisely amongst the most Rabbinically Orthodox but not only amongst them, as all comparative statistics show.

But this thread is not about the Talmud and was certainly not about Christianity. It is about Rabkin's article. You only betray your own strong and contemptible prejudices, and do not advance your cause, by your slurs against Judaism as a religion. Even worse, you tend to taint Christianity itself with your evident association of that religion with your own discreditable views.

This article is not just about Jews - it is also a reflection or even an allegory on being humans in general.

In our desire to live safely and to demonstrate our love to our children by showing them only nice things, we have exterminated most of the animal kingdom on earth and destroyed or altered most of the plant kingdom as well.

We overlook the fascism in taking for granted that our species is superior to all others, and are helped by the fact that animals and plants do not protest: they do not call the UN security council, they don't build refugee-camps, they don't strap explosives to their belt and blow themselves up in shopping centres - they simply starve and die.

We all run for safety, and trample on others as we do so. We all are confused by the half-truths we are told, but as in the case of Israel, only very few of us actually mean to deliberately harm others.

Some of us find ourselves born on this side or the other, but ultimately, this the human condition.

dear sad-ler...i note you dont quote the quoted extracts in full..as you advize me..[i first quoted them in full here some time ago,they are written deliberatly to confuse..thus if you can quote them fully this would be appriciated

if you could provide a link to the talmud ONLINE..would also help eliminate that..you call missleading..the facts are as they are able to be proved to be..[failure to give their correct fullness means they stand as quoted]

i note even in their abriviated posting..they back up what you say about the sanctity of marrage..[seems even the marrage of a rabbi to a baby stand's as sacred]..

its not diffi-cult to see how laws such as those quoted might well suit those stealing others lands..[this point is undenyable]

to say god approves of murder..will take a lot of verifyable evidence..[your own laws state that a lands value..depends on how much of the jubalee term remains..[it is noteworthy that the land then is required to revert to its legitimate owners..this of course has not occured]..in israel

further on the sacredness of marrage,..see our biggest form of adultery is betraying our marrage to god..[god the life giver..gives all living their lives to live..[thou shalt not murder indicates all life is sacred..thus murder is the vilest of crimes,

advocating murder thus is the highest form of adultery..betrayal of god...how can you seek to justify murder of those who's lands you steal...

please do not call me christian..[i am neither xtian nor muslim..i am but one who reads all the sacred-texts holding them all holy...

as god has..not seen fit..to allow me to read the talmud..i regard the few extracts of it..i have been allowed to come across..of indicating it unholy....but despite this opinion..PUT UP AN elink to the talmud LINK AND LET OTHERS JUDGE..

i promise i will read it..and get back to you...fai;lure to put up a link means..i will remain of the belief..the book..[talmud]..to he wholy unholy

Oh dear... another set of 'values' to deal with.

As if living in a nation-state full of 'Australian values' wasn't bad enough, now we read of another nation-state full of 'Jewish values'.... is that why we have problems getting on I wonder... too many competing and different 'values'.

Canada has 'Canadian values' too, and is, or at least was, busy trying to define what they are, apart from the 'not being American' mindset.

Could it be that Arabs have 'Arab values' too? And are there 'Palestinian values' sitting around somewhere?

I wonder if someone could send in a definitive set of values for all or any of these headings so we cam begin to see where our 'nation-state values' converge and where they conflict?

Australian values:

Christian values:

Jewish values:

Israeli values: (tricky eh? Will 'Israeli values' take note of the Arab Israeli's or only Jewish ones?)

Arab values:

Palestinian values:

Zionist values:

A word of warning... I don't think it's fair to list myths as values, nor hopes, and maybe someone can supply a definition of 'values'?