I don't believe President Obama when he says "Never be at war with Islam" I think he was having a bad moment .
Yet he was partly brought up in an Islamic State , he must realize some of the tenants of Islam can only be acceptable if we all become Muslims , hardly likely you would agree .

The problem is the difference between Islam and all the other faiths that makes the divide so profound .
When you consider the Irish issue , quite for the moment , the difference between the two faiths , both Christian is really subtle when compared , yet the Orange and the Green fought for 400 ? years !
That they both were financed from all over the world demonstrates the breadth of hate supporting that "WAR".

When you consider what the Islamic sects or states do to each other is mind boggling , recall the Kurdish woman sitting in the snow , her dead children wrapped in old plastic the live children in her lap wrapped in corrugated cardboard on the border of Turkey and Iran photographed by National Geographic some years back . So much for the wonderful beautiful Humanitarian Faith called Islam . They can't even look out for their own .

Oz to date has been Lucky compared to other countries , how complacent are we , because we have not been involved in Warlike acts within our borders maybe we are somewhat complacent because it seems to me that the refugees desperately breaking through our northern barriers seem to have the same arrogance and dynamic contempt of their brothers they left behind , how are they refugees , what they escaped from they have brought with them .

Cont'd
.

Oz to date has been Lucky compared to other countries , how complacent are we , because we have not been involved in Warlike acts within our borders maybe we are somewhat complacent because it seems to me that the refugees desperately breaking through our northern barriers seem to have the same arrogance and dynamic contempt of their brothers they left behind , how are they refugees , what they escaped from they have brought with them .

What Obama didn't say was that his country is working frenetically to get out of the Islamic States with their monopoly with oil . Here the USA is advancing tech in Bio-Gas , CNG etc , American citizens are using wood gasification now more sophisticated than WW2 Gas Producers to run cars trucks generators etc . This tech is carbon friendly also . Corn produces alcohol and Biomass methane carbon monoxide and hydrogen . Good by Middle East

"...religion is once again becoming the primary marker of identity in all parts of the world", God save us, if that ever becomes true.

Sad as it may be against the wishes of many people, the religions of today have no credibility and are behind just about every conflict on the planet.

It's becoming painfully obvious the god these people so fervently believe in doesn't exist, so they are typically fighting amongst themselves in the hope they will be right in the end.

God help us? it should be, god will destroy us just as he seemed to do in all the old testament. When I read that and then tried to read the NT, I was convinced it was a very evil belief and that's been justified in the work I do. The big majority of those seeking help to overcome their depression, frustration, anger and complete confusion, are all religious people.

I wonder why there are so many articles revolving around religion, could it be they are trying to find some semblance of credibility or hope someone will come up with answers they can hold onto, other than their straw man god

Stormbay,

Religion is not behind every conflict on the planet. The economy is.
One side in a conflict is invariably disadvantaged economically or educationally, or both. Neither are the combatants in a conflict examplars of their "religion" in any way.

Also, the Old Testament should be viewed as Mythology, - poetically embellished, and written well after any event occured. In many ways it is not unlike Greek Mythology.

Reza Aslan’s article states>---- that America must stop looking the other way as America’s dictatorial allies in Jordan, Egypt, Morocca, and Saudi Arabia suppress democratic movements in their countries. Just how is America supposed to force these leaders to promote democracy? Didn’t they just wage a war trying to do this very thing in Iraq for which they have been condemned by the muslims.

I see what you are getting at though,I think the West would be much better off butting out of the affairs in other countries every time there is bloodshed somewhere. It holds back reforms and progress that can only be bought about by the people in these countries living through times of great upheavel , war and bloodshed . Democracy only occurred after centuries of the same in the West.

However you cannot have it both ways. If America butts out,then it must also stop restraining the Israelies and the Palestinians and let them fight it out.

>--- by viewing al-Qaida militants as a demonic force bent on destroying cilivisation Bush played right into the Jihadists' hands by setting the groundwork for a new and terrifying age of religious war.

Very true. Unfortunately a lot of people also believe that they are fighting a religious fight when in fact if you look at the rhetoric you will see that the words -:

I want a muslim state world wide
We want a catholic state under a catholic queen in England
I want a German state world wide (HITLER)

Question- Who in the above statements is telling the truth?

Answer- These statements all mean the same thing. Hitler was the only one who didn't try to hide his murderous intentions behind the respectable cloak of religion.

What do these statements all imply? Genocide.

Istvan
“Also, the Old Testament should be viewed as Mythology, - poetically embellished, and written well after any event occurred. In many ways it is not unlike Greek Mythology.”

I agree, which proves my point. Making It all mythology used as a control mechanism, not a beneficial fact. When I say religion is behind most of the wars, I'm talking about the psychology which revolves around the beliefs of those creating wars. Economics is also a religion, it has no basis of fact and can be seen to produce the opposite of what it foretells, except for the elitists. Who by the way are fettered by the elites of religion, both supporting each other to maintain control.

You can make all the excuses you want, but it always boils down to the base psychology of a person, group, culture or country and 99% of those involved or instigating conflicts, are religious. Religion is quick to claim a positive, if ever you can find one, but they spend a large part of their time in apologetics and denial of fact.

Istvan,

"Religion is not behind every conflict on the planet.The economy is".

You can't let religion off the hook so easily.Surely the Islamic states are backward politically and economically because of their theocratic mode of government,unlike Western secular societies. Little progress of any kind has been made in the ME for a thousand years, yes, one side is disadvantaged, the question is why?

Both the Old and New Testaments and the Koran are fantasies, the tragic mistake of the Moslems is that they have tried to build a society on the ravings of a 7th century psychopath. We in the West escaped from the dead hand of the Church, that's the reason for Western "advantage."

Palestine and Israel should be left to duke it out.

Tim Minchin has the best take on this unholy struggle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UO6YlkYNJQ

As discussed in the forums:
"Aussie, Aussie, Aussie, oil, oil, oil" (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=8752#140638),
"9/11 Truth" (http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2166&page=83),
http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2009/04/17/weekend-reflections-121/#comment-234274

... and elsewhere, the best way for the US to win the "war on terror" and to defeat those who are truly behind the jihadists would be to conduct a proper inquiry into the September 11 outrage as the New York City Coalition for Accountability Now (NYC CAN (http://nyccan.org/mission.php)), amongst others, are trying to force the New York City Council to do.

Anyone, who insists that George Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleeza Rice et al were not the architects of the 9/11 outrage, should check out the follow the YouTube broadcasts, each under 10 minutes long:

"9/11 Science vs. Conspiracy Theories Part 1" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PawC4u1U7k
"9/11 Science vs. Conspiracy Theories Part 2" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LG6i6WBHM3U

Barack Obama has a golden opportunity to hand Afghanistan to Iran and let Islam sort out its own problems instead of pushing a Roman Catholic version of democracy,onto an unwilling population.

Roman Catholic democracy is a vote every three years. True democracy is the universal Protestant Christian right to be judged by a jury of twelve disciples of Jesus Christ guaranteed by the US Constitution. Not only in criminal matters but also in all civil disputes.

Pakistan and Iran in a toe to toe confrontation would balance each other,and between them they could demonstrate the benefits of Islam, over war.

Islam has been a great civilising influence but it is hardly democracy. Islam and Roman Catholicism have much in common. They are both obsessed with Rules,and both have condoned slavery, and an aristocratic social structure.

The discipline of Islam would see the Taliban suppressed by Iran, not by infidel soldiers of a misguided Christian Nation, struggling with its own moral dilemmas.

The following article bears repeating:

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22594.htm
Osama bin Laden was US operator: President Asif Ali Zardari

By Arun Kumar

May 11, 2009 "New Karala" -- Washington, May 11 : Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari has alleged that elusive Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was a US operator who had tried to destabilise his late wife Benazir Bhutto's government back in 1989.

In fact, as premier Bhutto had "warned America about Osama bin Laden in 1989 with a call to then US president George H. Bush", Zardari said on NBC's Meet the Press programme Sunday.

"She rang senior Bush and asked of him: 'Are you destabilizing my government?' because he (apparently referring to bin Laden) paid the then opposition $10 million to overthrow the first woman elected (prime minister) in an Islamic country," Zardari added.

"So, we knew that he was your operator," said Zardari responding to a question about bin Laden's whereabouts.

"You'll have been there (in Afghanistan) for eight years. (So) you tell me. You lost him in Tora Bora, I didn't, I was in prison," he countered when asked where bin Laden was before hurling the allegation at Washington.

Asked if Pakistan was actively looking for bin Laden, Zardari replied: "The world is looking for him and we are part of the world look-out brigade."

Zardari also reiterated his belief that bin Laden is dead. "I have a strong feeling and I have reason to believe that because I've asked my counterparts in the American intelligence agencies and they have not heard of him since seven years.

---

Of course, there is evidence from much more recently that he was a US operator:

1. His being met in the American Hospital in Dubai in July 2001 by the local CIA station chief whe he was wanted by the FBI for terrorist attacks against the US.

2. US knowledge of his presence in a Pakistani hospital on 10 Sep 2001 and very likely 11 Sep 2001 after the attack had occurred.

A very interesting article about the current conflict in Pakistan is "Thoughts On The War Between The USA And Pakistan" to be found at http://winterpatriot.blogspot.com/2009/05/thoughts-on-war-between-usa-and.html

It presents very interesting facts although I can't yet be certain about all of its conclusions.