Thanks Bernie, I agree (mostly) with your last post.

It really is a conundrum. In my opinion, we can have some influence. The population 'issue' can be resolved (it will take time) by education ... of men in general and women in particular, especially in the developing world. Of course, this is easier said than done - power, control and religious subservience is a powerful motivator for 'business as usual'.

When all is said and done, whether you believe in AGW or not - we have finite natural resources. We (humanity) have to find a more sustainable way of doing things (I for one will not disrespect others for wanting what we in the 'developed' world already have) - we just have to find a way of doing it better.

Cheers

Q&A I didn't think much of your two URLs , they should have stuck to chess . We shouldn't worry about population , ethically it is none of our business .

Science will look after us .

The environment has always been malleable . How many Dinosaurs have you seen lately .

5 children will deliver 2 movers and 3 passengers , they will all be needed .

57 years ago a farmer in the Murray Valley needed 10 acres to market 900 kg of tomatoes , the Dutch today do it in one square meter .

We hosted a exchange Student from Europe she was amazed that we chucked all our veg trimmings into the garbage , her family breed rabbits in the carport , there is nothing in their garden the rabbits can't eat . If the bunnies can't eat it you don't grow it .

All we need to do in Oz , is master water desalination . To easy , just hijack natures patent .

Our EXCH Student gets up at 5:30 AM is at School at 7 and is back home at 12.30 PM .

If you dig up a cubic meter of farm dirt in Germany 2 to 3 thousand worms do the same in Oz 10 to 20 !

We don't have a population problem do we ?

Shaz while you make some good points, technology will only get us so far and in fact it has got us to where we are now but technology does not always keep up with need nor does it always have the answers.

I think most of us agree that resources are limited we might perhaps disagree on what figure constitutes overpopulation.

Whatever we think, population is an issue that is being overlooked and needs to be included in any discussion that concerns the environment.

Bernie Masters wrote: "By focusing as Lardelli does on controlling population (which only Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin and Mao have done successfully), ...

Garbage!

Many civil harmonious and democratic societies have proven perectly cable of controlling their populations for thousands of years.

Anyway, if who understoods anything about Chinese history, know sthat Mao bequeathed to his successors a massive overpopulation problem, which necesitated the adoption of the "one child" policy.

Bernie Masters continued: "... we're ignoring many important issues over which we do actually have some control.

Who, other than Bernie Masters, is ignoring any important issue?

I certainly don't ignore, for example, per capita consumption of resources,

Why is total population also not a critically important issue?

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I will be standing as a candidate in the Queensland state elections, largely against population growth, although I ma also concerned about other issues such as privatisation, democracy and accountability.

For more information see "Why I am contesting the Queensland state elections as an independent" at http://candobetter.org/node/1121
Contents:
End privatisation - stop the liquidation of Queensland,
End Queensland Government encouragement of population growth,
Demand action against homelessness and housing unaffordability, Labor's coal exports - a crime against this and future generations of humanity,
Why a vote for me is not be a wasted vote,
To intending Labor voters:,
To intending Green voters:,
To intending Liberal National Party voters:,
What you can do.

See also http://candobetter.org/QldElections http://candobetter.org/QldElections/MountCoot-tha

Good Morning Pelican

Shaz while you make some good points, technology will only get us so far and in fact it has got us to where we are now but technology does not always keep up with need nor does it always have the answers.

Pelican ; Do you mean Humans don't keep up with Tech ?

I think most of us agree that resources are limited we might perhaps disagree on what figure constitutes overpopulation.

Pelican ; What resources are we agreeing limited ?
Are you suggesting a ratio, Population : Environmental Resources, in OZ water would solve any problem .

Whatever we think, population is an issue that is being overlooked and needs to be included in any discussion that concerns the environment.

Pelican;
You would agree that Polar Bears , Oak Trees and Crickets are part of the environ why do you exclude Humans ?

More bad news in "We Are Breeding Ourselves to Extinction" at http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22181.htm :

All measures to thwart the degradation and destruction of our ecosystem will be useless if we do not cut population growth.

...

We are experiencing an accelerated obliteration of the planet's life-forms-an estimated 8,760 species die off per year-because, simply put, there are too many people. Most of these extinctions are the direct result of the expanding need for energy, housing, food and other resources. The Yangtze River dolphin, Atlantic gray whale, West African black rhino, Merriam's elk, California grizzly bear, silver trout, blue pike and dusky seaside sparrow are all victims of human overpopulation.

...

The overpopulated regions of the globe will ravage their local environments, cutting down rainforests and the few remaining wilderness areas, in a desperate bid to grow food. And the depletion and destruction of resources will eventually create an overpopulation problem in industrialized nations as well. The resources that industrialized nations consider their birthright will become harder and more expensive to obtain. Rising water levels on coastlines, which may submerge coastal nations such as Bangladesh, will disrupt agriculture and displace millions, who will attempt to flee to areas on the planet where life is still possible. The rising temperatures and droughts have already begun to destroy crop lands in Africa, Australia, Texas and California. The effects of this devastation will first be felt in places like Bangladesh, but will soon spread within our borders. Footprint data suggests that, based on current lifestyles, the sustainable population of the United Kingdom-the number of people the country could feed, fuel and support from its own biological capacity-is about 18 million. This means that in an age of extreme scarcity, some 43 million people in Great Britain would not be able to survive.

...

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Anyone who denies that overpopulation is a serious problem is as dangerous as any religious fanatic and should be certified.

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In case anyone has missed it, my article "How the growth lobby threatens Australia's future" at http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=8485&page=0 http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=8485&page=0 may be of interest.

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Excellent article, BTW, Michael.