The Forum > Article Comments > Origins of conflict: present and future > Comments
Origins of conflict: present and future : Comments
By Stephen Keim, published 15/1/2009Hamas, democratically elected by Palestinians, has been left with no alternative but to use some form of violence against Israel.
- Pages:
-
- 1
- 2
- Page 3
- 4
- 5
-
- All
Posted by maracas1, Thursday, 15 January 2009 7:43:14 PM
| |
I quite like the analysis of the situation given at this site.
http://www.medialens.org/alerts/index.php It gives a time-line of Israeli actions against the Palestinians and a very interesting selection of quotes from various Israeli leaders, past and present, re their expansion/invasion motives and intentions and their related attitudes towards the Palestinians. Posted by Ho Hum, Thursday, 15 January 2009 7:48:37 PM
| |
Dear Seneca,
Perhaps these quotes may appeal more to you: "We'll make a pastrami sandwich of them ... we'll insert a strip of Jewish settlements in between the Palestinians, and then another strip of Jewish settlements right across the West Bank, so that in 25 years' time, neither the United Nations nor the United States, nobody, will be able to tear it apart." (Ariel (Arik) Sharon, 1973). And: "Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal Al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population." (Moshe Dayan, 4 April 1969). If these aren't enough for you Seneca, there's more I can give you. But what will that achieve? Will it make you agree that this conflict must be brought to a just end for both parties? I doubt it, but I guess I can live in hope. Posted by Foxy, Thursday, 15 January 2009 8:54:28 PM
| |
Non-violence is not an impossible pie-in-the-sky: one just needs to look at the achievements of Abu Mazen in the West-Bank and the concessions he receives from Israel compared with Gazans who reap what they sew.
The concessions which Abu Mazen receives are still too few, just a beginning - I hope they continue to increase in both quantity and quality. He should be rewarded in every possible way for restraining the militants in the West-Bank. Those Palestinians that are willing to live in peace with Israel, that do not blow themselves up in schools, restaurants and buses, or launch rockets at innocent civilians, are entitled to have their own viable and proseprous state and many other benefits. Those who choose terrorism, on the other hand, well nobody should ever envy their fate. The rest of the world should encourage (even push and prod as necessary) Israel to reward those that deserve, but not to submit to the wicked who only deserve to die. How many here are aware that Hamas started using phosphorus in some of the missiles they launch at Israeli civilians? Posted by Yuyutsu, Friday, 16 January 2009 1:01:05 AM
| |
George: Thanks
mac wrote: “For a policy of non-violent resistance to have a chance the stronger party must be prepared to concede some legitimacy to its weaker opponent,such as the British in India. A Palestinian "Ghandi" would most likely disappear into the gulag, end his life with an Israeli bullet in his brain or be crushed by a bulldozer. The Palestinians in Gaza have been driven into a ghetto and are being slowly suffocated by their Israeli jailers, I'm not surprised they're getting somewhat angry.” Dear mac, The ‘civilised’ English as opposed to the ‘barbaric’ Israelis? The British imprisoned Gandhi for many years on numerous occasions in both South Africa and India. A Palestinian told me that her father was arrested and tortured by having an iron bar stuck up his rectum and twisted around – by the British in Palestine. http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/india/india1919.htm describes the British massacre of unarmed Indian protestors at Amritsar. British and Israelis are a mixed bag. Israelis have protested against the war: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/172591-Israel-Massive-Demonstrations-against-the-war At the same time as Ehud Barak was ordering the army to start the bloody ground offensive against Gaza, some ten thousand protesters from all over Israel marched in Tel-Aviv in a massive demonstration against the war… "One does not build an election campaign over the dead bodies of children!" shouted the protesters in Hebrew rhymes. "Orphans and widows are not election propaganda!", "Olmert, Livni and Barak - war is no game!"' "All cabinet ministers are war criminals!!" Barak, Barak, don't worry - we shall meet you in The Hague!", "Enough, enough - speak with Hamas!" Refuseniks are Israeli soldiers and veterans who have refused to serve in the occupied territories because of conscience. I know of no counterpart in the British army. Israeli writers and activists such as Uri Avnery have consistently spoken against Israeli military policies. Israel is a democracy that has allowed those protests. Israel might be more welcoming to non-violent resistance than the British in India. Don’t underestimate the power of non-violent resistance and the decency of the Israelis or any other people whose better instincts are appealed to. Posted by david f, Friday, 16 January 2009 11:27:55 AM
| |
Foxy,
I don't really need a lecture. Moshe Dayan was quite correct. He asserted after the 1967 war that Israel should withdraw from the newly acquired territories. Posted by Seneca, Friday, 16 January 2009 4:25:29 PM
|
In retrospect we can criticise the League of Nations with British support for the manner in which the migration took place without involvement of the people who already occupied the area and plans agreed on a form of governance acceptable to all the parties instead of endorsing a jewish state.
I am mindful of the British colonisation of Australia which took place with the same arrogant assumption that nobody owned the land in Australia; that Australia was "Terra Nullius".
This assumption was overturned by the High Court of Australia about ten years ago after two centuries of theft of land,abuse, cultural destruction.rape and mass murder, followed by low paid exploitation of the remnants, many of whom had their meagre wages stolen by Governments who were supposed to be holding the money in trust.
Fortunately,present day Australian Governments are striving to express their remorse for the past and governing for ALL Australians as a Government in the territory currently occupied by Jews and Palestinians should be.
In the present circumstances where the Gazans are refugees in their own land imprisoned by Israel I am not in the least surprised they are acting as they are even with ineffective random rocket launchings.
The fact that Hammas were elected in internationally supervised fair elections yet the US and Israel refuse to recognise their legitimacy speaks volumes.
In the present conflict, it is the Israeli's who are the terrorists and if they think they can exterminate Hammas they are deluding themselves. All the children who survive this ethnic cleansing are the Hammas liberators of the future.
America did not learn anything from Vietnam: you cannot kill liberation movements.