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The Forum > Article Comments > The story of Kuntoro Mangkusubroto - working as the hands of God > Comments

The story of Kuntoro Mangkusubroto - working as the hands of God : Comments

By Duncan Graham, published 24/12/2008

Four years ago this Boxing Day a massive undersea earthquake off Aceh triggered a tsunami. It was a scene from Armageddon.

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Hi Runner,

"It is not so much that God gets all the credit for doing the good stuff and dodges the blame for the bad stuff so much as a puny created being having the audacity to tell Him what is right and wrong."

Well, drowning 150,000 people certainly sounds wrong to me. If some human dictator did that you wouldn't hesitate to call him or her an insane psychopath. If God wants to be judged by other standards then it's up to him to explain why. So far I haven't heard any convincing reasons.

I believe that you're on record as saying that whatever God does is good. Do you want to explain why it was good to kill all those people?
Posted by Jon J, Friday, 26 December 2008 7:26:56 AM
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Jon J
It is amazing that you find a moral framework when you want to. You write 'Well, drowning 150,000 people certainly sounds wrong to me'

You are not as willing to write 'well murdering millions of unborn is wrong' and yet suddenly you are the one who determines what is good and what is evil. The simple fact is that if drowning 15000 is wrong it is because God says drowning innocent people is wrong not because of your totally misguided morality. You argue strongly for a woman's right to murder her baby and then question God's right to start and end life. Your self righteous morality is evident. Behind your smears of God is your desire to determine your own version of what is right and wrong. The fact that God allows you such arrogance is testimony to His mercy.

The evidence of God's love is everywhere. I don't need to go past yours or mine heart to see the evidence of the sinful nature in mankind. I am very pleased it is God who is in control of the outcome and not man. The number of babies murdered at the hands of men daily is clear evidence of that.
Posted by runner, Friday, 26 December 2008 12:56:23 PM
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Of course, as a Muslim Dr Mangkusubroto work was as the hands of Islamic God, i.e. Allah.

While it's nice to see that runner and Porkyboaz approve of his work, I imagine that he would find the stuff about God sending his son to die a horrible death somewhat underhelming.

It's good to see some ecumenical goodwill from a couple of our resident Christian preachers at this time of the year though.
Posted by CJ Morgan, Friday, 26 December 2008 7:14:18 PM
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Hi Runner,

Have you heard the expression 'King Charles' Head?' I think you need to look it up - try here for starters.

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-kin1.htm

Seriously, if God really doesn't like abortions, why doesn't he just stop unwanted pregnancies? It would be much more effective than putting people like you and the Pope on the job, and it would free up so much of your mental energy for other things.

Leaving aside the ad hominem arguments and your obsession with abortion, do you really believe you can reconcile the existence of a loving all-powerful God with the amount of suffering that goes on every day on planet Earth? If 'the evidence of God's love is everywhere' then why hasn't it convinced the majority of people on the planet who believe in some other deities, or none at all? One characteristic of genuine evidence is that it tends to make people believe in it whether they want to or not -- something the 'evidence' for your God (or anyone else's) unfortunately fails to do.

So far everything you have said is circular: "I believe in God because I believe God told me to, and I believe in God..." If you think you have some genuine objective 'evidence' for the existence of your God then let's hear it; but if all you can do is spew venom then there's no real point in continuing.

Happy Hanukkah!
Posted by Jon J, Friday, 26 December 2008 8:03:41 PM
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Jon J

You write 'So far everything you have said is circular:'

Everything you have argued is from the moral framework that you have established for yourself.'

The corruption of your heart is enough to convince me of how merciful God is. To think that God would be so merciful to puny people like you and CJ is proof of His love. The indifference and condoning of the murder of babies is also ample proof the the evil spread through the world by mankind (under the influence of the demonic). You can distort God's character all you like but considering your opinion is coming from an utterly corrupt character I really don't trust your judgement.
Posted by runner, Friday, 26 December 2008 9:04:55 PM
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Don't you mean Allah, runner?

I agree that we can see how merciful Allah/God is in the deaths of 170,000 Acehnese from the tsunami. Jon J raises some good points - why don't you try and answer them instead of trying to change the subject?
Posted by CJ Morgan, Friday, 26 December 2008 9:26:34 PM
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