Romany,

Maybe I misread what you are saying. I thought you were saying that with a better knowledge of the history of women through past centuries (missing from the history books) you would have made different decisions in your life. I considered that peoples decisions would more likely be based on their observations of their current environment, or the limitations made on women in the current society, or the status and expectations of women they see around them, and not of previous generations they had read about.

Pynchme, the quote you provided is very ugly but it's interesting that you have ignored in your response the entire content of the articles by Neil Lyndon which is what was being referenced and commented just on that one quote.

Perhaps you could have quoted from the inspired comments by Julie Burchill Brighton instead to show the reasoned and fair response of a feminist "I wonder if she drank that much before she married such a whining bore?".

There will always be idiots on the side making nasty claims, throwing dirt etc. The link provided by James was a piece worth reading and pondering on even if you don't agree. Your choice to only refer to J Luker's response in your reply misses the point.

Robert

Pynchme,

In regards to mens websites, I use material from both men and women.

Secondly, I dont know exactly how to articulate this, but mens websites that try to explore issues and ideas are important. These ideas and issues are important in the developement of understanding and knowledge. These websites are another part of the jigsaw puzzle of human behaviour.

What you appear to be suggesting is that these sites only discuss issues that are deemed to be important by an elite group of women and if the material does not meet feminist approval it should not be explored or discussed.

<When we have as many high powered female politicians, business leaders, high level public servants and others, as we do men, then women too can be said to be oppressing men wholesale.>

Are you saying that because there are not an even number of men and women in politics and business, that women are oppressed?

That is not logical.

Actually there a very large number of females at the high level of public service.

Many people men included make decisions about whether they are prepared to pay the price of what it costs to reach the top. for some the price is too high.

I understand that many politicans, CEOs put in 60-80+ hours a week, the higher up the career ladder, the more time at work. Men are often caught in a catch 22 situation, where their partner wants the benefits of the extra income, but then resents the time that is spent earning that extra income.

I will start a thread in the forum section in a day or two.

Robert does point out a very pertinent point.

I had an idea that if you are at uni, try and find a group of undergrad males, and really, really listen to what they have to say, if they trust you and feel safe with you and drop the bravado act, you will hear things that will surprise you.

They may not be as articulate as the females, so it really does take some very careful listening.

JamesH,

You say: "Actually there a very large number of females at the high level of public service."

Could you direct us to the data? It would help the debate if you could give relative numbers and proportions. I look forward to what you can show us.

James

Where, oh where, on earth do you get off? No matter what the subject matter of any gender thread on OLO, you always, ALWAYS turn it into another POOR FELLAS, POOR MENZ ten-hanky weepie!

If you wish to get on your high horse about feminists ‘dismissing’ the awfully, awfully important links you keep setting them for homework (assuming they can spend copious amounts of time away from the ironing in order to read them), then please use some links that are a little less dismissable. That Lyndon effort really had me running around the house looking for a chunder bucket.

OK. OK. I’m quite happy to stand accused of being just like all those howwibly howwible womenz who turned poor old Neil Lyndon into a mental and physical wreck, because he … ahem … wrote ONE article criticising feminism. (I’d hate to think what would have happened to him if he’d written two.)

Romany, Pynchme

Some great posts from you both and would love to write more in response. However, I can’t post much at the moment as I’m sharing a computer with my howwibly, howwibly oppressive husand – so time is at a premium. I can only write huffy dumps like the one to James above – which require very little time or brain power. If I were an embittered man, I could blame the demise of my computer on feminism, and just ignore the fact that it got fried in the latest Qld storm (which the feminists probably caused anyway).

Will try to post some more on the weekend.

Spicky, research your own plausibly deniable appeals to authority.

But b4 that, google 'passive/agressive' then, 'prebuttal'.

After that, look up... yourself.