Paul has done a masterful job of excusing the bloody and destructive Iraq war, costing at least 100,000 Iraqi lives, and, by some credible estimates over 1 million and which may eventually cost US$3 trillion (http://www.abc.net.au/rn/backgroundbriefing/stories/2008/2199248.htm).

Of course part of the trick is to massively inflate the scale of the abuses of human rights under Hussein (how come he was sentenced to death for the deaths of at most several hundred, when he is supposed to have murdered umpteen squillion?), ignore the deaths caused by the sanctions prior to the 2003 invasion or the war against Iran and understate the harm caused by the invasion and occupation.

Much of the nonsense argued by Paul above has been dealt with on the forum "Winning the War In Iraq" at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2052#43156 http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?discussion=2052#43150

Dear Yabby,

I stated an opinion. I did not expect other odd ball arguments to surface.

While George believes in abstinence, like billions of others around the world, he as president has never tried to impose his personal belief on his fellows. Sure he's argued his case, as he's entitled. Something you should try rather than leaping about pointing fingers and screeching carping criticisms.

Your crazed remark about his trying to impose abstinence on Africans totally ignores and contrasts hugely with his sane efforts at ensuring drugs for the treatment of those with aids.

Now what was my origibnal opinion?

Could you please when you respond to my opinions try a little harder to comprehend them and portray them accurately. Don't try and paint them differently and then launch critisims on your newly rewritten and dishonest basis.

If George is a dummy, he sure is a pretty successful dummy. You'd agree with that ... now wouldn't you?

keith:

1) aids relief to africa is the one point upon which i will agree, bush's one great act. BUT, as yabby points out, even there bush had to soil his own deed. "he as president has never tried to impose his personal belief on his fellows." in the case of tying money to abstinence programs, your claim is demonstrable nonsense.

2) "the world has become wealthier". huh? bush as economic hero? and why give bush the credit even if true?

3) "african americans and hispanics". yes, many unqualified flunkies, or complete psychopaths like alberto gonzalez. by any measure other than race, bush's appointments have been disastrous.

4) "position to win a hot war". define "win". you expect praise for a needless, bloody war that he had to lie through his teeth to begin? yabby's 100 000 iraqis dead is a very sad underestimate.

5) "american people safe and secure". i guess, give or take some anthrax. but, he has done it at the cost of trashing the constitution, torturing people, holding people in secret prisons, extrajudicial execution, show trials, illegal spying on his own people, detaining people they know to be innocent, and generally nurturing a reasoned fear into a full-blown psychopathic paranoia. not coincidentally, he has done this whilst being the greatest possible recruiter for islamist terrorism.

6) "won two elections". so what? and he didn't "win" in 2000: he was awarded it by the supreme court, in a decision which will go down in history as one of its most partisan, most ludicrous ever.

paul L: your whining about the "left" is tedious and meaningless.

* he as president has never tried to impose his personal belief on his fellows. *

Is that so Keith? I remind you that some of that money to fight
aids, was actually used to promote the abstinence programme. Uganda
was doing pretty well fighting aids with its ABC programme, until
George started trying to impose his belief on Africans.

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2005/03/29/uganda-abstinence-only-programs-hijack-aids-success-story

*If George is a dummy, he sure is a pretty successful dummy.*

Successful Keith? With the benefit of hindsight, Americans are
licking their wounds, as their country is nearly bankrupt. Only
keeping the $ printing presses going, is keeping their heads above
water. George is so despised by his own people, that he was hidden
away at the last elections. Even republicans went out of their way
to distance themselves from the George and Dick team.

You call that successfull?

All it shows is that even in a democracy, with a bit of slick
marketing, the people can get it very wrong. Americans are paying
a huge price for their mistake and very few would not concede that.

History wil record the Democrats in Congress started the economic implosion and it was not the doing of the US president of the time.

Have you read my original post or is your memory comletely impaired? I've already told you why George will be seen as successful. You haven't addressed nor debunked those points. So I guess you agree he is successful and will be seen to be so by history, in those areas. Those are the issues that determine how history views administrations as they are far more consequential than mere political and economic issues.

How old are you? Your comprehension skills are those of an under-educated child.
And once again you've resorted to your usual 'strawman' argument. Do you even know what constitutes a 'strawman argument.'

*History wil record the Democrats in Congress started the economic implosion and it was not the doing of the US president of the time.*

If history gets it right, then history will record what we know,
ie that for most of the last 8 years, Congress was contolled by
the Republicans, ultimately responsible were DicknGeorge, free to
change whatever they liked. Watch a bit of Bloomberg. The SEC
takes its instructions from the Senate and they were told to lay
off enforcing too many regulations, let the market solve it.

You now have the result. A guy defrauds investors by 50 billion$,
he had less auditing of his books then my private little self run
super fund in Australia. Crazy stuff, for which Bush bears
ultimate responsibility. He had 8 years to change whatever he liked.

Bin Laden was right about one thing. He said that Al Queda could
defeat the US by bankrupting the country. George has played right
into his hands and helped him nearly do it. Only the printing
presses are saving America right now.

Wow, what an achievement! George will go down in history as the
biggest dummy president in the last 50 years.