Hey Paul,

it is much much easier than that. Watch.

Yabby,

'Ah of course Keith. Why should a minor issue like a few hundred
thousand women dying in the third world, be a major issue to you
or to George?'

Because Yabby I wouldn't be seen refering to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of souls as minor and I certainly wouldn't debase myself by using such horrific saddness, in such an insensitive manner, as casting aspersions merely to win points in an obscure internet debate.

The normal action here, of a man, would be to retract and offer an apology to those known to the poor souls... and to those you've attemped to slur.

Bushbasher,

off topic already and into personal abuse. How long will it take before you sink to Yabby's disgraceful behaviour.

Ah Paul, if you had read the links that I posted and had done a bit
of homework, you would start to realise that family planning in the
third world is a major issue, not a minor issue.

Yup, hundreds of thousands of women die in the third world, as they
don't have the facilities that Western women do, and crossing their
legs for Jesus, as George suggests, does not even work for priests,
as we all well know.

Did you read about the women in Ethiopia, sick of popping out kids,
who were denied family planning due to George and Co?

Its a scandal, but you write it off as a "minor issue".

You and George should be ashamed of yourselves.

'Did you read about the women in Ethiopia, sick of popping out kids,
who were denied family planning due to George and Co?'

No. Care to supply a reference?

"personal abuse"? there's something very odd about your posts, keith. you string words together well, and the words superficially have the form of an argument. but often what you say actually has very little to do with the actual stage of the argument.

there's clearly no value in going through the 6 points. you've strategically left important bits out, presumed much about my opinions and misrepresented the extent to which i disagree with you (except for the aids thingo, where you misrepresent the extent to which i agree with you!). my overall point was basically that *even* if i were to agree with you on each point, it wouldn't in any rational manner save bush's presidency from being judged a disaster. even the individual points (except i would argue (1)) were swamped by associated instances of bush's ineptitude.

the pony was a reference to reagan's beloved joke, and i think it captures well your hunt for something salvageable amidst the mountains of bush poo. you point at the thinnest of silver linings in an attempt to ignore the darkest of clouds, blowing it away with a truly bizarre characterisation of my claims as "political".

the fact is, bush will be judged by his work on a) the economy; b) global warming; c) 9/11. on all three he has been spectacularly awful.

finally, you refer to kennedy and the cuban missile crisis. it's a telling example. because there, a single wrong step could have immediately resulted in the deaths of millions, and possibly the end of life on earth. whatever you think of kennedy's response (and prior politics), it was a genuine crisis. by comparison, 9/11 is a fleabite.

now picture october 1962 in your mind, with no shortage of american military "experts" advising the launching of missiles against the ussr. picture that it is not kennedy but georgey boy who has to decide upon the american response. you picturing that keith? you're comfortable with that picture? truly ruly?

*George did far more then stop money being spent on the abortions
in the third world. He applied the gag rule, result being
no family planning for many Africans. Abortions are one thing,
not even being allowed to mention them, is another. FYI here
are some of the results :*

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3028820.stm

I posted that reference on the 21st. You clearly did not
bother to read about the consequences of George's actions
in Africa. That is just one example of many.

Fact is, American policy is killing women in the third
world.

*The have cherry picked a few minor related issues and tried to debunk the overall assertion by attempting amateurishly to debunk those.*

That was your follow up to Paul. Clearly in that case, you think
its a "minor related issue".

Dagget say >> Paul has dishonestly implied that because I question the number of deaths that have been blamed on Saddam Hussein that, therefore I am excusing those crimes.”

You really are not very bright are you. I implied no such thing. I would like you to AGAIN withdraw an unfoundless accusation. For the dozenth time.

Dagget says >> “"Of course part of the trick is to massively inflate the scale of the abuses of human rights under Hussein ... Yada Yada "

I see you are now resorting to repeat yourself, as if that somehow negates anything I said. I’m not an apologist for the invasion. It was poorly thought out, poorly executed and based upon flawed intelligence. Nevertheless, the VAST majority of suffering which has afflicted the Iraqi people has been caused by Iraqis. To deny and attempt to lay blame on the Allies, for the acts of Iraqis, is dogmatic in the extreme, and only the loony left insist on doing so.

For example, take Dagget's loony attempts to blame the US for the behaviour of Iraqi looters in the National Museum. Another case of blame anybody but the person responsible.

Bush will be commended for having the fortitude to stick out the war, when everyone was squealing for the US to cut and run. The decision to stay, and indeed provide a troop surge, along with the rapprochement with Sunni leaders has allowed Iraq and its people some light at the end of the tunnel.

Frankly, it is undeniable, and only a hopelessly partisan leftist would try to argue otherwise, that the decision to stay instead of leave at the height of the bloodshed in 2006, has been a positive one for Iraqis. They may still hate the US and its allies, but they now have the chance to do so democratically in a reasonably functional society. The alternative was a Somali-like wasteland in which tribal sheiks were the new warlords and death and destruction on a Rwandan scale was inevitable.

TBC