- Ja students need essential discipline and the institutionalised religious guilt of old Europe to prepare them for tomorrow the world?


- None of this American style individual liberty stuff or personal thought should be permitted to threaten the social fabric - Aye?

This 'self-esteem' stuff is more pervasive than just schools. Many middle class parents will not use the word 'No' with their children. I have seen toddlers repeatedly and patiently removed from a situation or distracted with other activities where a firm 'No' would have taught them that some things are just not allowed. The funny thing is that 'No' is one of the earliest words a child uses when it learns to talk - so they certainly understand it.

A newly trained kindergarten teacher once assured me that it was damaging to use a cross to mark something incorrect - she used a dot instead. She was otherwise a sensible person, so I can only assume that bit of nonsense was an example of university indoctrination.

I think it does far more for a child's self esteem to help them improve - spelling, behaviour, whatever. It shows them how to take charge of their life. However, you can't improve if no-one is allowed to tell you what's wrong.

“It seems we could go a long way toward improving students’ self-image (and academic performance) if we freed them from the straightjackets of naturalism, materialism and anti-supernaturalism.”

The article was actually going well until this turned up. Why not say it out loud and up front Bill?

1. Don’t teach evolution, it'll lead to drugs and suicide
2. Theism will boost your ego

I agree with Bennie. Theism is authoritarian and that is the last thing any society needs.
I would go further and state that all religion is divisive. Any person proclaiming one religion is saying that every other religious belief is wrong. It is more likely that all such beliefs are wrong than that one particular belief is the only one that is correct.
I do agree that selfish materialism is not the key to a happy and fulfilling life. Contributing to the wellbeing of our society will help fulfil that personal need.
We need to teach our children the three Rs and to think clearly. The ability to seek and analyse information is the basis of a successful intellectual life.

There is some truth in what Bill has to say but the old authoritarian ways are NOT THE ANSWER.

They never were.

Our HIStory books are proof of that especially this HIStory

http://jesusneverexisted.com

Perhaps we should make cadets compulsory for all students.
Remember how it was the "religious" schools that protested mightily when cadets was down-sized years ago.

And of course copious helpings of corporal punishment too, both at home and in school. That will teach them to behave and obey their elders and do what they are told.

And to thus look for scapegoats upon which to dump their collective pain and rage---school yard bullies anyone!

And to thus obediently march lock-step into the inevitable wars which such a fear and guilt saturated "culture" inevitably creates.

This reference provides a unique perspective on the origins and consequences of the "culture" of violence into which we all inducted ---all with the very best intentions of course!

http://www.nospank.net/fyog.htm

It should be compulsory reading for everyone.

The author argues that Hitler tapped into the enormous reservoir of repressed rage of the collective German psyche which was CAUSED by the child-"rearing" practices that had been the norm for centuries.

And copious lectures about "original sin" and how depraved humans beings really are. And how to hate and mistrust their own latent intrinsic intelligence.

Sin every where.

We all relate to all other beings and the entire world EXACTLY in the same way that we relate to our bodies. The world is an extension of and continuous with our bodies. There is no separation.

And how to hate their bodies and thus become crippled by guilt and shame just at the sheer simple fact of being bodily alive.

Love is open-hearted radiance which expresses itself in good-will and compassionate help to all beings.

When anyone, especially babies, toddlers, children are assaulted via corporal punishment their whole being, including their hearts (which is the seat of love) contracts in pain and self-defensiveness. All of the hurts thus become structured into their psyches and bodies.

And they begin to look like Bill in his dreadful sanity

There is no doubt that a great deal of nonsense has entered the school system over the years.

Much of it is driven by fear. Adult fear, that is. Kids seem to be much the same as they ever were. If anything, thanks to vastly more exposure to the horrors of the world via TV, they are less surprised by some of life's grossness than previous generations.

But I had to chuckle - in fact I laughed out loud - at the clumsy attempt to bring religion into the mix, right at the end...

First, the classic lead-in.

>> If our worldview teaches us that we are simply a cosmic accident with no meaning or purpose, no history or destiny, no significance or value, then yeah, blowing your mind on drugs or committing suicide may seem like a pretty good idea.<<

The assumption is that meaning, purpose etc, are impossible, should we accept that we are purely a "cosmic accident". Which is arrant nonsense to anyone except a religious proselytiser.

>>Worldviews matter and bad worldviews lead to bad consequences<<

Once again, the assumption that a worldview that accepts the "cosmic accident" theory is by definition bad. Such arrogance.

But this takes the cake for logic:

>>Giving kids the awareness of something greater, grander, and more mysterious than only themselves might do their fragile egos a whole lot more good than chucking out all of our red marking pens.<<

Oh, please.

Surely it is far more logical that an ego will, faced with "something greater, grander, and more mysterious", become more, not less, fragile?

It is sad that an important topic such as this should be buried under the godbothering blanket.

They will not have much 'self-esteem' left after they have spent a few months in the real world, away from leftie teachers and mummy and daddy.

I'm puzzled as to why a post that began by discussing Queensland schools morphed into a rehash of a bunch of criticisms of education in the USA. Our education system is not and never has been a replication of the American one.

As to the use of red pens - it encourages a mentality that marking is the search for mistakes. This should not be the purpose of most assessment. Marking should encourage learning and teachers should use feedback to steer students in the right direction, not simply highlight errors.

Quite a simple thing really and completely in accordance with mainstream educational practice that emphasises the importance of students actually, like, learning stuff. But I guess any excuse is good enough to drag out words like loonies, madness, nonsense, mollycoddling, crazes and all the other tiresome frothing of those who hate the contemporary world.

Segueing into a plea for the teaching of intelligent design was a novel touch though. I didn't see that one coming.

I worry that some parents think that six year olds should be able to spell correctly. Is that for real? That poor kid sounds like he's going to need a self-esteem program.

And, I also felt the tone of this article deteriorated rapidly towards its end. As far as I can tell Bill, most social change in Western society has been driven by Capitalism's relentless drive for profit, and Christianity has sat very comfortably along side all the way.

Bill, we are not end products, we are merely the current model and there's plenty more to come in the aeons ahead. Doesn't that just fill you with awe and wonder?

Of course, letting children believe they are inherently worthwhile flies in the face of Christian teaching - how can you feel good about yourself if you believe you were born sinful? On the other hand, I suppose you could have an irritating attitude of self-importance because you think God loves you.

Why fuss about all these ignorant, badly behaved children harbouring a serious sense of entitlement. Most of them will return rudely to earth when they have to deal with the minions in Centrelink to sign up for their Newstart Allowance.

Bennie: [Why not say it out loud and up front Bill?

1. Don’t teach evolution, it'll lead to drugs and suicide
2. Theism will boost your ego ]

You're exactly right Bennie. Bill thinks a good starting point for improving self-image and academic performance would be to lie to them about the facts of biology and tell them they are 'specially created' by his supernatural deity of choice.

"They will not have much 'self-esteem' left after they have spent a few months in the real world, away from leftie teachers and mummy and daddy."

Yes they will. Since the entire global education system has decided to spare the rod and spoil the child in keeping with postmodern communism, they'll just be joining the swarms of self esteem-packed rabble before them. They leave school in cohorts, otherwise known as packs, illiterate masses, ignorant mobs and, in some circles, the current generation. Bless 'em.

Ban colour. That will fix the problem.

If red is angry then any number of pc sentimental euphamisms may attached to colour. Hmmm... blue pen is sexist (masculine) and black pen is racist. Hang on, green pen is environmentally friendly. Booom. l feel much better now.

The drive for self esteem above all else..or worship at the altar of self starts in childcare where the word "naughty" is banned. Apparently centres can lose their licences if they use the word naughty to describe a childs behaviour. The other day, a young child with allergy problems, climbed across the table to eat something from the plate of another child...that something of which she was allergic to. I said "Don't... that's naughty" and was immediately advised by my supervisor that this was inappropriate and I should not use the word naughty" Then we tried to find another word to describe what the child had done and couldn't. This behaviour has dire consequences fo the little girl, and yet... we can not find a way to tell her this is unacceptable (in a way she understands)

Surely our drive for increasing self esteem has hit a dangerous low!

Sofisu - your supervisor doesn't seem to have much of an understanding about language, does s/he?

When a child hears a word for the first time it comes with none of the packaging of nuance, prejudice or implied meaning with which we pack it. These only come to the child with experience and often include the kid's own interpretation anyway.

Whether you tell a child certain behaviours are 'unnaceptable' 'naughty' 'irresponsible' or even utilise an abstract such as 'purple' the word itself has no intrinsic meaning to one who is still emotionally or chronologically immature enough to crawl across a table. Whatever word one uses is merely a collection of sounds that, with time, comes to be associated with - in this case- proscribed behaviour.

If, for example, one did take your supervisors stricture to its conclusion and decided to use an innocuous word such as 'purple' as a code for behaviour that was anti-social, in time the child would come to have exactly the same reaction to being called purple as they would to being called naughty.

We don't "make" a child feel guilt or sadness by using particular voiced codes. Children come with an innate ability to reason: soft voices, smiles and rewards go together, frowns and shrill or harsher voices mean no rewards. Each child's genetic make-up and particular life experiences results in the way they react to such knowledge.

BTW - I have a pack of coloured pens - orangle, purple, green, pink etc. I use for marking. Not because some Board advises it, but because it suits me: correcting assignments - especially at Uni level - can be sooo stultifying and heartbreaking!

My students don't react to the colour of what I write, but to the content. As someone said above, the red-pen thing may not be as fatuous as it sounds taken out of context. As merely a small part of a series of recommendations to remind teachers of the impact their words and comments have, it's relevence seems to have been sensationalised?

well spotted, bennie. this one was a no-brainer, and muehlenberg still managed to trip over his big sanctimonious feet.

"bad worldviews lead to bad consequences..."

Still, it could be worse. Just imagine how arrogant and spoiled and intolerant a child would grow up to be if it actually believed that an omnipotent being that created the Universe was personally concerned with its welfare on a day-to-day basis! The consequences are unimaginable!

Wait a second...

Bill, I would have to use my red pen on your essay. I would bracket the last three paragraphs with my red pen and query their relevance in an essay on class room teaching methods.

As far as the red pen is concerned I would have thought it is the message written in red that would have the potential to impact on the student’s self esteem not the red pen itself, as Romany has pointed out.

I am in contact with children from a broad range of age groups and different schools and from what I have seen and been told sometimes teachers will abuse their position of power and use sarcasm with students. Most teachers would not dream of using sarcasm but the few (probably very few) who do can have a deep negative impact on a student. These teachers perhaps do not realise the importance of their presence in a child’s life and probably underestimate the impact of such a comment, which they might have made out of frustration or misconception. Just one sarcastic, or deliberately hurtful, remark by a teacher can stay with a child for years.

However, asking teachers to teach without pointing out to their students what their mistakes are seems like an oxymoron and would surely cause confusion in the minds of young learners. A child experiences joy and a sense of achievement when they eventually overcome a mistake and get the correct answer. The sense of elation at overcoming a mistake, now marked correct with a red pen, is enhanced because of their previous disappointment. This is surely good for their self esteem.

The only point worth making from this post, designed as a furtive attempt to refute evolution, is that kids need to learn to fail. It's one of the things that build character. Shielding children from failure merely makes them unprepared for the world outside, with (as previous comments have said) a very high opinion of themselves.

As someone who has taught at university, the extremely poor english and maths made the first year a waste, as we had to make sure the kids has the required basic skills before attempting to do anything more advanced than high-school level work.

Yes to child porn (just re classify it art), yes to perversion (just call it choice) yes to rebellion (just call it democratic right), yes to drugs, yes to kill the unborn (just call it terminate pregnancy), yes to unfaithfulness, yes to dead Buddha, yes to Mohammed, yes to Mammon, yes to earth worshiping, yes yes yes but NO to the Only One who can cleanse our filthy hearts and cause us to take some responsibility in life. Parents ands teachers are to gutless to say no because often they are so enslaved themselves that they can't say no. They can't say no to immorality because they just have to have that porn fix, they can't say no to drugs because they want to indulge themselves, they can't say no to rebellion because the kids have modeled it from them. The red pen only strikes out the very One who can change hearts and give eternal life. No wonder the devil and his workers despise Him so much.

Geez Runner, it must be a terrible burden for you to have to slog through life in this miserable, depraved society. Chin up old son. You don't want to appear ungrateful for the life your maker gave you.

OK Runner - I'll bite. The only one of your 'Yesses' which might apply to me is earth-worshipping - I am very fond our planet and all the things that came to be on it through glorious happenstance (AKA evolution) - but I do say 'No' to an imaginary friend and I certainly don't have a filthy heart. I thought you lot were meant to love thy neighbour as thyself and do unto others as you would wish to have done unto yourself. How does your vitriolic abuse fit into that paradigm?

Runner, have you been at the altar wine again!

I for some reason persisted with this article until the end, despite the misinformation the author was peddling. Then the last paragraph gave Muehlenberg's agenda away, and I was prompted to do a search of his previous articles. In another of his articles (on Dawkins) he supports the teaching Intelligent Design (=Creationism). Is there anything that could disqualify this biblepounder more for comment on education?