Ah whenever you see "former" in front of someone's name you know you’re in a for a spray. Mr Black doesn't disappoint, he also delivers on not actually coming up with solutions just criticisms. Rudd is doing want he was elected for
We didn't like the industrial relation laws the Libs gave us.
We wanted action on climate change.
Mr Black is blaming Rudd for the financial problems the world is experiencing, well buggar me here was me thinking it had something to do with bad lending practices in the US.
Rudd is doing a good job, and it’s a great thing you’re a former labour senator

If the Howard government had been far sighted and responsible it would have spent the mining royalties surplus on national infrastructure to proof our society from the ravages of peak oil and excesses of the global stock markets. On September 30th 2007 Ross Gittens wrote of the impending financial crisis. As much as I admire Ross Gittins I don't think he is a fortune teller I think he just writes articles reflecting current economic thought. NB politicians with law degrees who have practised as stock brokers and bankers are not economists.

At the global economic crisis has progressed Rudd's approval rating has increased. Most Australian's are suspicious of Turnbull and Bishop's motives. Do they want what is best for working Australians or are they out to line bankers and miners pockets.

The reason for the ETS is to help prepare for a sustainable future in which today's children can enjoy the benefits we have experienced in the last fifty years. Examples; water in the tap, a Barrier Reef worth visiting. Alas I fear the ETS will be weakened to the point of ineffectiveness. Even if climate change isn't your 'thing' then a jobs exodus would foolish with or without carbon limits. In particular China is facing coal shortages http://www.theoildrum.com/node/4810. Perhaps we could send them more coal, no wait let's keep the jobs at home but make them green jobs. It's called thinking ahead.

You know the national economy is like a lady.

She needs to be treated with tenderness and gentleness, she gives her best responses from soft caresses , which arouse her inner feelings and gently swell into a mutually gratifying experience (just ask any woman).

Howard and Costello were consummate lovers of the national economy.

They ensured the taxes they gathered were in part, prudently spent, in other areas used to repay the debts of previous socialist profligacy and then some put away for a rainy day, all in all, the national economy appreciated their tender ministrations and was bountiful in her ‘favours’ to us all.

Over a year ago the national economy lost her lovers.

No longer is she respected, nor is she treated gently.

Those things which Howard and Costello put away are squandered in an orgy of rapacious spending.

Instead of soft caresses we have some testosterone fueled rapist louts, pinching, prodding and squeezing every orifice and at ever opportunity, intent on satisfying the needs of their own Ego and damn the national economy.

In the end, when done, they will turn her out, like a street whore and force all to face the vagaries of the stormy economic night.

Then she (the national economy) will remember, reflect on and wish for the embrace of her past lovers, those who respected her.

I figure, by the end of the current parliamentary term we will all be wishing the national economy was in the hands of more competent and consummate lovers, than the fumblers, squeezers and three second thrusters, presently servicing her and exercising all the consideration, experience and prowess of a Lebanese street gang.

In the end, the national economy will be battered, bruised, to some extent ruined and hoping for a new liberal government to nurture her and bring her back to health.

No wonder its the Recession we had to have. IT could have been avoided if only more people thought long term and had voted with their heads.

OH dear the economy is like a woman[what rubbish], the beautifull numbers [or beautifull members ]the liberalisers loved to masticate over ,t'was was only honouring her with their lips.

they plasticised her by lies about how god she is by lying about her abilities ,massaging her figures ,reclassifying her children into them and us [good and bad][2 hours work is fulltime employment,lol.]

we sold telicom one of her children into prostitution to pay off the social conscience and nurturing duties ,we burdened gst upon her children
,while she was away swerving as mistress to her lovers]while reclassifying her spouse into a higher tax brackett] and favouring her boyfriends with tax cuts while placing the debt burdon upon her least favoured.

all this figuratism from the closeted liberals is a real downer , she showerd bountifuilly upon just who egsactly ,it wasnt upon her children ,but her elite lovers ,who alone got her gentleness [the rest got contracted terms and a belt with her silverspooner]

she never was a lady[and serviced so few , with it all , then she was set up to fail ,her children despised ,when the liberals lip[o sukktioned off her fat and fattend up their own slush fund[and who gets paid to man-age her fun-ds some liberal knee jerk W/banker]

good to see you got a new job
now your not re-writing the NUMBers col

Nothing more ex than an ex John, again you prove why you are an ex.
Nothing but dribble.
Having lunched with you once I am unsurprised at your stance and the fact you are totally wrong
Voted with their heads Col?
You truly amuse me.
After we win the next election who will you blame besides voters who do not blindly follow you?
Rudd here to stay , the opinion polls agree with me, get Blacky to buy you lunch , but get into the wine early he collars the bottle fast to take home.

No article that includes a stupid term like 'chattering classes' deserves to be taken seriously. If you have an argument, present it and don't demean yourself with cheap denigration. What you are basically saying is that people who don't agree with you have no right to think about or discuss things. Grow up.

one under god,

I’m not exactly sure what you mean by, ‘they plasticised her by lies about how god she is by lying about her abilities ,massaging her figures ,reclassifying her children into them and us [good and bad][2 hours work is fulltime employment,lol.]”, but, if you mean the previous government changed the definition of unemployment, you are wrong. It is set by the ABS in accordance with international standards and has not changed since 1960. Here is the ABS account of unemployment measures: http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/RN/2006-07/07rn18.pd

dear chris
your link dosnt work
its typical

you may recall how hard passed legislation allowing public servants to lie[copied by state govts]
even if the site were available[if its govt howhards legislation still ensures its govt spin[thus protected from court or even freedom of information dislosure

our leaders are too clever by half, the media too accepting, the market synconised on the numbers has been ruled by the numbers [but guess what govt numbers LIE[even when their links do work]

What baffles me is the fact that Kevin Rudd continually talks the economy down.On one hand he hands out money like there's no tomorrow,and then tell us how bad things will get next year.

These conflicting signals are not the sign of a good economic manager.Just bailing out our failed State Labor Govts is not good enough.They must be all held accountable

who is they arjay?

they were held accountable because they wernt responsable

[thats how we got rudd[the good guy/bad guy play] how-ard sells off [gives away the family silver] gives us contracted wages , gives us gst then rudd comes along and gives us carbon tax then the economy collapses and turn bull returns

its the two party elitist p-lay
we pay for their play
[we get screwed no matter which hand we chose]

but hey what else you expect from a demon-autocracy run by the self same selfish selfserving elites that des;poiled gods creation[and are despoiling mans monetary/credit system[returning us into homeless wage slaves, as the elites govern over their franchised fiefdoms , to yet further rule over the worker rabble controlled by threats , media fed fears and punatuive policed patROTism

we are spirits having an in-car-nate experience
and this is satans realm

[but go spend your little cash on baubles [even now] but better todays bying value than tomorrows [;as soon hyperinflation looms] [because we turned gods creation into paper] and plastised baubles and fiat based debt

Well all I can tell you all is having been in small business for almost 20 years I fear we are about to see the wheels fall off once again with the power once again being handed to the unions.

And belly, before you go shooting me down, it's the un-skilled labourer earning their $35 per hour that has contributed to this credit crisis.

Many of these people were lucky to hold a job 10 years ago, never loan bring home a grand a week plus and how many of them have put their spoils to good use by investing in a house. Very few, that's how many. All they have done is fueled this ecconomy to unrealistic levels with their disposable incomes but that is all about to change.

The last thing we need is for someone to tell us who we can and can't employ again.

WATCH AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS is all I will say.

As for kyoto, what a joke. We are already anti competative and this will simply be the last nail in the coffin.

Hard to have a level playing field when not all players are in the game hey!

rechtub show me the unskilled laborer earning $35 an hour.
Put him on the table, let us know what job he holds.
Tell me why his boss pays that rate.
Is it because he/she earns it?
Is it because of supply and demand?
And how did you turn the new IR laws into your personal nightmare?
Research that story, the one in the Sydney morning Herald of two weeks ago.
Hardly the socialist news.
In fact written by that papers financial editor.
Named close if not word perfect "Gilards IR a fair cop"
Well balanced the story even highlights the decline of unionism.
It however also highlights the new laws ARE NOT a return,[your words not mine] to union control.
Rechtub, surely, yes surely you can see Rudd is not going to let the unions run riot?
In fact the days you fear if they ever existed to the degree you claim are without doubt gone forever.
For over 100 years my union has had to fight people like you, who say workers are over paid, and claim the country will be ruined if we do not cut wages and control unions.
Who buys your products mate?
With what money?
A worker has his/her time and hands, brains and effort to sell, if the market needs those products it should pay for them.
How amusing that we still find true class based thoughts in some like you, to think that only some earn entry into middle class by their efforts.
And that we must keep sections down by wage control so others can prosper is?
Well you tell me.

Well belly, let's see

Un skilled labourers working on the Brisbane tunnel project are on $35 per hour + And yes, it is because of supply and demand but does that make it fair?

Brickies labourers on $300-$400 per day, not bad considering many of them can't read or write. The list goes on mate and you know it.

How can you justify a person holding a 'stop-go' sign earning more than say a qualified chef?

I have been warned by my industry that come July 09 Unions will be able to enter our workplaces and do what they like. Let's wait and see on that one hey!

In fact the days you fear if they ever existed to the degree you claim (your words)......Are you for real?

I have not said we should cut wages to evryone. What I do say is that un-skilled workers should not be paid more than qualified people OF ANY TRADE! A brickies labourer gets paid much more than a butcher or a chef. Did they go to colledge, did they spend four years on low wages to get a trade. NO! So why do they get paid more?

Now that the building sector is about to collapse, are you and your mob going to fight tooth and nail to protect their jobs, even if it does mean many of the builders will go broke as a result!

Just remember one thing mate, Supply and Demand!

The demand is about to stop so the jobs must go so please don't try to stop this natural occurance by screwing the employers of these over paid, under skilled workers

belly you cant argue with a closed mind

re the club [rehctub, ]thinks 35 dollars for 24/7 shift work [underground] is getting over paid[im presuming the tunnel dudes dont work from 9 to 5 oclock]

i recall just a few days ago some concrete beam killed some worker working on the tunnel[so 35 dollars for the danger is peanuts]no doudt he would not work underground at the real risk of death for standard brikie labour rates]and his math of 300/400 a day proves he cant even do math]and dont see 15 of it goes to tax

no doudt he dosnt begrudge 'movie stars their 10 million per movie or the dumb stunt dudes that dont get that for their risk[he would no doudt see million dollar contracts to play 'sport' as fair return,

i note he quotes 35 for a brikies labourer but dosnt mention billion dollard bonus for managment willing to work their workers to death

he lives his closed minded life thinking how bad it is that workers have rights TOO, that he cant wait till howhard the blowhard comes back to put the poor working slobs in their place[under his heel]

you cant cure a mind that is blinded by their own self importance and the supirior genes he no doudt holds [just be glad we dont work for him]

oneundergod,

Try 07RN18.PDF via Google.

thanks chris
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/RN/2006-07/07rn18.pdf
i needed that one in another debate

QUOTE..>>Definition of unemployment

The official unemployment figures are those produced
by the ABS in its monthly Labour Force Survey.
Unemployed persons are defined by the ABS as those
civilians aged 15 years and over who, during a period of
one week (called the reference week), were not
employed, but were available to start work in the
reference week and had actively looked for work in the
previous four weeks.

Since the definition of unemployment is framed in terms
of people who are ‘not employed’, it is necessary to look
also at the definition of employment.

The ABS defines
employed persons as those civilians aged 15 years and
over who, during the reference week, worked for one
hour or more, or had a job from which they were absent.

1
Work is defined as work for profit, commission or
payment in kind, in a job, business or farm, or without
pay in a family business or farm.

The requirement that a person only has to work an hour a
week to be counted as employed creates a bias toward
counting a person as employed, rather than as
unemployed.>>

anyhow cheers
[you dont have that link re 'govt allowing govt to lie' to the people [or the media]its all linked somewhere [not that google lets us find it sans the code]

thanks for the code

rechtub you not I need a dose of reality, almost every day my phone rings with some one on that tunnel job wanting information.
Now you need to get rid of the group who are reporting to you its open slather soon, they are stealing what ever you pay them.
rechtub for 50 years brickies laborers have earned much more than some.
Have you any idea how hard that work is?
Now do you know what an ABN is?
under workchoices many laborers and tradesmen got such jobs , for apparent big money
An ABN is a tax file thing, you get big money are regarded as a contractor.
Paying from that say $38 your own insurances, all of them including public liability and workers comp, tax, holidays pay and public holidays even if it is only for your self.
Tools and much more.
Small business men are not all fools, for every one who like you sees phantoms in unions two actualy get free advice, or even help with policy's like safety training or drug and alcohol policy's, yes from unions.
rechtub free advice is not always bad and paid advice is not always good sack your IR adviser read my highlighted story and relax, the end is not even close.

It is typicle of you folk to assume everything. You assume I support the earning of sports stars, movie stars and alike. You are so wrong.

What I do support is the rewarding of one putting in the effort and making the sacrifices to become skilled in thier field.

And for the record I am a model employer. Every one of my staff are well paid, well above the award and receive bonusses when we have a good week. I reward everyone from the manager to the apprentice.

Unfortunately my industry (NOT ME) is loosing staff to unskilled jobs becasue the money is better and in most cases they don't work weekends.

As for brickies labouring.Most start at 5, finnish around 3, 10 hours @ 35 = $350, der!

Yes it is hard work. Just imagine though if each labourer was given an 'unemployed' as a lackie. Now that would make their job easier hey, or are you against that as well? Let's see, $240/week at say $17 per hour, that's 2 x 7 hour days per week as work for the dole. What is wrong with that?

As for unemployment figures you are forgetting one main point. There are hundreds of people out there working for cash so in effect they are unemployed. It is just that they don't show up on the system, but they will once they loose their cash job, that is if they already havn't done.

belly you cant argue with a closed mind...Posted by one under god,

Wow! with a name like that I think that is the pot calling the kettle black mate!

And finnaly, belly, I am happy to be proven wrong come july 1, and I hope I am wrong.

rechtub I have to hold my hand up, rare as it is I am only reading your posts now.
I believe you, that you are indeed a good boss, have you any idea how many are just that?
And I bet you understand some are far from it.
Your industry group is a union, just that nothing less or more.
Little mud sticks to them ,but the same sins exist in such unions as on my side of the fence.
High wages for non skilled workers, is it a hard working brickies mates fault a motor mechanic earns so much less?
Or is it true supply and demand?
Hair dressers get very little, but are they chained to the chair?
My hands are 50 years older than the rest of me.
Holding on to a jack pick, [ the hammer is a drill, not a rock breaker]
And working hard has taken its toll, my body is forever harmed by gut busting work.
I earned the extra cash, worked twice the hours even you do with those 4 am window dressing jobs and Saturday mornings.
If a boss is willing to pay then are you a criminal for taking it?
Are you aware almost every brickie in home building is non union?
I will without cost answer your questions about workers rights.
The lost in space on both sides feel they need to make mountains out of little hills to prove their worth.
Find that Herald story, read it, then ask how could your advice be so wrong?
And you paid for it!
Your leg has been pulled, from the day he took over the ALP, and during the election Rudd , and even I knew, this IR reform has to be balanced and so good the incoming next conservative government, in 20 years, will see no need to change it.
Mate not a week passes without a BOSS ringing for advice, even asking us to call in and see his/her workers, we can not be all that bad

rechtub I have to hold my hand up, rare as it is I am only reading your posts now.
I believe you, that you are indeed a good boss, have you any idea how many are just that?
And I bet you understand some are far from it.

Yes belly, I hear you. My industry has some of the worst.

Being a 'cash industry' it is quite common for workers to be paid as low as $10 per hour cash at times, catch is, if the worker is a family man he also gets all the hand outs as he is considered to be a low income earner even though he works 70 to 80 hours per week.

Now that sucks!

Many bosses don't even pay super, or if they do they pay the bare minimum only, which makes it hard for me to compete.

As I have said before, a cashless society would rid us of many problems hey!

In that post we agreed on every point.
I get the verbal kick in the shins for saying it but we owe no man a living.
I too can tell of 60 and 70 hours worked in the cash world by those who get full social security.
I could never tell some day to day story's of my workplace.
You would be surprised to know some very good bosses are unionists!
Not bribe just belief in two way help .
See a boss must make a quid if he is to pay wages, most but not all are ok.
My day, this day, included a verbal battering from a left wing radical union delegate, below the belt stuff, I gave no ground.
But while in the middle of the madness thought what would people think if they walked in on this?
Youthful people new to unionism answered my question, they sided with me, few workers like radical actions.

Treasury Bills Trade at Negative Rates
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6453
Bloomberg | Treasuries rose,as investors gravitate toward the safety of U.S. government debt amid the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=6451
Is the Fed Taking the First Steps to Selective Default and Devaluation?

Jesse’sCafeAmericain #;The Fed is asking Congress about permission to issue their own debt directly,not tied to Treasuries.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/ron-paul-printing-money-only-prolongs-the-pain.html

Ron Paul'remind Congress that the real culprit behind the financial crisis is the Federal Reserve,and that allowing the Fed to continue to print money without audit will only prolong the pain.



http://www.prisonplanet.com/us-budget-deficit-to-reach-usd-1-trillion.html

The US government faces an unprecedented budget deficit of USD 1 trillion


http://www.prisonplanet.com/of-the-people-by-the-people-and-for-the-people.html

Banks are ripping off our money,and giving us nothing in return

Card Check

http://www.prisonplanet.com/card-check.html

Federal Reserve is now the biggest single participant in the financial system,the myth of a“free market”still lingers on.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/jim-rogers-calls-most-big-us-banks-bankrupt.html

Jim Rogers,most prominent international investor,called most of the largest U.S.banks“totally bankrupt,”and said government are wrongheaded.



http://www.prisonplanet.com/german-fm-criticises-britains-crass-keynesian-policies-report.html

The German finance minister has attacked Britain’s economic stimulus package,saying it will not fend off recession but will leave the next generation saddled with debt.



http://www.prisonplanet.com/sen-vitter-calls-auto-bailout-ass-backwards.html

Louisiana Sen. David Vitter;$15 billion loan to Detroit’s big three, calling the deal“ass backwards.”

http://www.prisonplanet.com/carbon-trading-is-a-scam.html

A big red flag:Goldman Sachs,JP Morgan,Morgan Stanley,Citigroup and the other Wall Street pirates are buying heavily into carbon trading.



http://www.prisonplanet.com/operation-northwoods-exposed.html

Operation Northwoods Exposed


http://www.prisonplanet.com/the-road-goes-on-forever-and-the-party-never-ends.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/paulson-was-behind-bailout-martial-law-threat.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/fed-hides-destination-of-2-trillion-in-bailout-money.html

http://www.infowars.com/?p=6162

Real Cost Of Bailout So Far:$8.5_TRILLION!

http://www.prisonplanet.com/cost-of-bailout-hits-85-trillion.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/democratic-congressman-representatives-were-threatened-with-martial-law-in-america-over-bailout-bill.html

http://www.prisonplanet.com/bankers-wants-world-economic-government-to-solve-financial-crisis-they-created.html

New target for the anti-terror spies:Village paperboys — for not having the correct paperwork

| Cambridgeshire County Council used the controversial Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act to spy on eight paperboys thought to be working without permits.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=6389

UN Blowback: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6445

Marc Morano/Global warming is the“worst scientific scandal in the history… When people come to know what the truth is,they will feel deceived by science and scientists.”