Hi TRTL....

Ok.. in response.. as a matter of DEBATE.. i.e.. truth/falsehood.... I hereby ..absolutely and without the slightest mildest most miniscule blip of apology declare that my opinion is: "Islam" is Evil (as a religious faith and as a social/political system...

On the basis of the things "Islam"..the faith...says, and what it's founder....did.

I can also say that:

"Islam" contains some high and noble notions about God, and some notions of human behavior which are of value.

I can also say that "Many people calling themselves Muslim, are very nice, pleasant, fun people."

HERE IS THE PROBLEM. All that said..... your point was:

1. If Islam is always to exist alongside Christianity, we must find ways to work together.

Actually.....no. We can tolerate each other IN THE context of a secular state....only. There is no 'work' which we can or should do 'together' apart from simply getting along reasonably and not try to force people (with the threat of violence) to believe 'our' version, not treat 'the other mob' in a bad way (like dropping pamphlets in the letter box of whites in Auburn telling them this is a MUSLIM area...get out or else" kind of thing.

Then you said:

You want victory over Islam and any influence or power removed from the group - effectively making Islam a vassal of Christianity.

RESPONSE. We already have 'victory' over Islam on the spiritual level. Christ is already victorious. But then.. "influence" and "Power" ? ooooooh YES you betcha. But NOT as 'vassals of Christianity' there is no such concept. Simply as equal citizens UP to the point, where they seek to influence Australia in Islamic ways politically/socially.

Shock horror...for me this means NO Muslim schools..not a single one.
Reason? Because...they teach ISLAM and by definition.."Islam" is evil from a Christian perspective. "May Allah destroy them"(Christians and Jews) Surah 9:30 should be enuf for you to realize this!
Or..the "The last hour will not come unless the Muslims kill the Jews"

If that does NOT worry you...then Mein Kampf was totally misunderstood and did not mean 'eliminate the Jews'.

So *bOAZy* Is there a connection with this view of yours regarding Islam and the "Vision of Risen Lordy" by the mysterious 500?

If so, was it for them new information or more say a Blessed Affirmation and confirmation of that which "they" already knew and were aware of generally speaking?

Typical drivel from Irf - It's rather banal to say there are terrorists fighting for more than one cause, but Irf will try it on anyway...along with supposing a few things, to show us that he knows a little about Mumbai, but not anything that might be happening right now...
Many of those posting have tried to prove that other religions, but not their own, produce terrorists. Not very convincingly. And atheists like myself also have to deal with the fact that the greatest mass murderers of the last century were not believers of any god.
(It is instructive to note that communism believes in the virtue of revolutionary violence, and does not expect everyone to cooperate: those who won't cooperate need to be murdered. Fascism believes in the virtue of violence for social control. Both believe in the virtue of violence for expansion.)
The only religion, on the other hand, which regards violence as a virtue is Islam. Chritianity has its fantasiesof violence (the apocalypses), and Judaism has a lot of now-out-of-date violence to deal with. I'm not aware of any encouragement to violence in Hunduism or Buddism, but I'm open to hearing of any.
But Islam posits that violence is a superior virtue, and puts no time limitation on its use. Indeed, all four Sunni law schools prescribe murder as the correct response to a Muslim leaving islam, as per their reliable hadith (of which I have a copy). Islam needs to be exposed for what it is - theocratic fascism.
And someone wrote, our world is too small to have both capitalism and radical Islam - do you think Islam, radical or otherwise, has any problem with capitalism? Absolutely not. Islam, radical or not, only has a problem with capitalism which it does not control.

No surprises here, then.

>>I hereby ..absolutely and without the slightest mildest most miniscule blip of apology declare that my opinion is: "Islam" is Evil<<

I've no idea what caused this sudden confession, Boaz.

But here's some news: we know, already.

The more interesting aspect of this is your stated objective. Which appears to be tolerance, evidenced by "getting along reasonably and not try to force people (with the threat of violence) to believe 'our' version, not treat 'the other mob' in a bad way"

In summary, they're ok if they don't make trouble. Or proselytize with a half-brick in their hand.

I'm sure that they would ask no more and no less from you, Boaz.

But then you move into more familiar Boaz-territory, which has absolutely nothing to do with tolerance and harmony. And everything to do with preventing them from living their lives in the manner of their choosing, even without the hint of trouble-making and proselytizing with that half-brick.

You generously allow that they may live...

>>Simply as equal citizens UP to the point, where they seek to influence Australia in Islamic ways politically/socially... this means NO Muslim schools..not a single one<<

Would you allow that in order to bring this state of affairs about, we should simultaneously close all religious schools?

Because your "rationale" is...

>>Because...they teach ISLAM and by definition.."Islam" is evil from a Christian perspective.<<

I suspect that Christianity is also, in some eyes, seen as evil too, Boaz.

So by definition these are insufficient grounds to ban either Muslim or Christian schools.

Oh no, it's bloody surah bloody nine again!

>>Surah 9:30 should be enuf for you <<

What a surprise!

You're like one of those old 78 rpm records, stuck in a groove so long that it can't be moved on, no matter how hard you nudge the turntable.

And if that analogy is anachronistic - so much the more appropriate.

>>If that does NOT worry you...then Mein Kampf was totally misunderstood and did not mean 'eliminate the Jews'.<<

Now, that's just plain offensive, Boaz.

Isn't it.

Islams biggest defenders are human secularist. The reason is their warped sense of morality that allows them to murder the unborn by the millions with little to no conscience. They hate the righteousness of Christ and refuse to turn from their self indulgent lifestyles despite it leading to destruction. Their only pathetic attempt in justifying Islamic terrorism is to use selective history in demonizing Christians. Many of them go to the grave at the hands of Islamic terrorist still holding on to their hopelessly flawed false dogmas.

Secular humanist are totally dishonest when they distort the teachings of Christ. They know that without Christian teaching their is no absolutes which allow them to play god. Wherever they have tried they create a death culture (violence, abortion suicide, euthenasia.

Secular humanist only agree with the adamic nature doctrine when it is applied to Christians. That is why while they are rotten inside they have to create false morality trying to portray themselves as the peace loving saviours of the planet.

In many ways Islam is more honest than human secularism. At least anyone with commonsense can see what we are dealing with unlike to secularist who parade their sel righteousness.

But *runner* if U knew the fate of a child was to be born, enter a church school only to be raped by a paedophile priest,
(no not a homosexual, a paedophile)
have their complaints covered up by other nefarious priests, despair of life and commit suicide, don't U think that the medical waste bucket might be preferable?

And say, from a Hindu perspective, the Soul is eternal and will have another opportunity to enter the prime material later on in any event.

Thus, it is only yr own "warped" God concept that gets U into such a knot. And what religion are U exactly? And, does all this "murder of unborns" as U put it have something to do with a belief system about baby Jesus coming back?

To me, these dogmatic, blind faith beliefs of yours are yr graven image. And because U refuse to use and develope your brains with logic, critical thinking and science, u "miss the point"
(the definition of sin from the Greek) and consequently do not grow and evolve, resorting to the same tired old parrot mantras that you copy from someone else.

Fundamentalists may wear different clothes and mutter different prayers, but in principal you are all the same to me.

As for religious schools, as stated on previous occasions, I'd ban the lot of them and allow comparative religion only in co-ed schools. They are a curse, a blight, a pox and stone around the necks of our children.

Yes, sexuality. It's more for pleasure and stress release than it is for procreation, at least for us at present. Why not just adopt a rug rat before it is left to starve and do the world a favour?